Plot holes/poor storytelling discussion

[returntovoid]

I think Sabretooth actually killing Silver Fox would have had better emotional impact than faking her death, IMO.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Hmmm I don't think so. I like that her death was faked, and that Logan was basically tricked into letting Weapon X experiment on him. Then he finds out she was working with Stryker all along, but she says she does actually love him, and then when it seems Logan trusts her again, she gets killed for real.

 

[returntovoid]

But the death faking was poorly executed, for example, He didn't even bury her body. That why I think instant death would have been better, at least this plot hole would have not been there.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea there should of been a scene of Logan burying her in a unmarked grave or something.

 

[Golgo-13]

I think it would have been better if:

1)Kayla had indeed actually been killed/raped by Creed (isn't that how it is in the comics?)

or

2)She was really faking that she loved him, and was actually Stryker's or Creeds woman and had no feelings for Logan whatsoever. She could then be cold and heartless towards him at the ned during the revelation of it all..which would only feed to Logan's rage and anger.

The 'i really loved you but didn't want to hurt you', moment blah, blah, blah came off like a bad daytime soap opera scene.

And was it me, or did the whole 'story' as to why he called himself Wolverine completely sissify the name for anyone else? A Wolverine is a small but fierce animal that is fearless against animals several times its size. A fitting name for Logan, and a fitting Code name for himself while part of Team X. Instead we get yet another soap opera type explanation....

 

[Infinity9999x]

And was it me, or did the whole 'story' as to why he called himself Wolverine completely sissify the name for anyone else? A Wolverine is a small but fierce animal that is fearless against animals several times its size. A fitting name for Logan, and a fitting Code name for himself while part of Team X. Instead we get yet another soap opera type explanation....

I thought the story was ok. Not great, but not horrible. And it actually makes more sense than if it was a nickname given to him by his Weapon X teammates, because in the movie-verse Logan isn't short. In fact, it was clear during his Weapon X team scenes that he was one of the biggest guys there. Creed was barely taller than him, and Blob was only one noticeably bigger. If they named him anything, it should be Bear.

That's one complaint I've had with Wolverine in relation to the Singer X-films. I have no problem with the casting of Jackman, I had a problem without any effort of making Jackman appear to be shorter. Yes, it takes some work, but it's certainly not impossible, or even that much of a problem. Simple camera tricks and creative filming would have taken care of that. But, crying over spilt milk and all that...

 

[returntovoid]

1)Kayla had indeed actually been killed/raped by Creed (isn't that how it is in the comics?)

Here's how it happened in the comics, I just copy/pasted it from Sabretooth's Marvel.com bio.

Little is known about the early life of the feral mutant named Victor Creed, although it is believed that he suffered an abusive childhood at the hands of his father who, disgusted by the boy’s mutant nature, frequently beat him and chained him up in the darkened basement of their home. As an adult, Creed took the name Sabretooth, and by the 1910s he was known by this name in a small Canadian frontier community where he intimidated almost everyone. One of the few exceptions was a young man named Logan, whom Sabretooth sensed had superhuman abilities similar to his own. Hating the love that existed between Logan and a young Indian girl named Silver Fox, Sabretooth brutally assaulted her, apparently raping her and leaving her for dead. The enraged Logan then forced Sabretooth into a pitched battle, which ended with Sabretooth victorious. Unbeknownst to either combatant, Silver Fox survived the attack and soon departed from the community.
Little is known about Sabretooth’s subsequent activities until the early 1960s when served in Team X, a special intelligence unit run by the Central Intelligence Agency for the subversive Weapon X Program. In Team X, Sabretooth was reunited with both Logan, now known as Wolverine, and Silver Fox, however none of them recalled their past experiences due to false memory implants provided by Weapon X’s ally Psi-Borg.

And here's the link to the bio.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Sabretooth

 

[Golgo-13]

I was actually thinking they could have used the same camera trickery they used in LOTR- the one that had Frodo look way smaller that Gandolf - to make Sabertooth taller than Logan. That, or cast Ray Steverson as Sabertooth. A guy who i think would have played him well, and is bigger than Jackman.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I was actually thinking they could have used the same camera trickery they used in LOTR- the one that had Frodo look way smaller that Gandolf - to make Sabertooth taller than Logan. That, or cast Ray Steverson as Sabertooth. A guy who i think would have played him well, and is bigger than Jackman.

I've always wondered why they didn't go with the above option. Being a shorter guy has always been a bigger part of Wolverine's nature. Heck, it's why he got the name to begin with, and I've always thought leaving it out was more lazy than anything. It's not like we're asking for some incredible feat of CGI or anything.

 

[chaseter]

It still seemed to effect him, he seemed upset/angry to me.

But I was talking about in general anyway. That's the appeal of the character I think. A guy who can't die but lives a life of torture. That's why I hated Eberts review, he just doesn't get the character. Just because he is indestructible doesn't mean he can't feel pain.

I agree that Ebert was off but after this movie it seems to me that Jackman doesn't get the character either and neither did the director. Singer at least loved the characters and their history.

 

[danoyse]

I thought the story was ok. Not great, but not horrible. And it actually makes more sense than if it was a nickname given to him by his Weapon X teammates, because in the movie-verse Logan isn't short. In fact, it was clear during his Weapon X team scenes that he was one of the biggest guys there. Creed was barely taller than him, and Blob was only one noticeably bigger. If they named him anything, it should be Bear.

That's one complaint I've had with Wolverine in relation to the Singer X-films. I have no problem with the casting of Jackman, I had a problem without any effort of making Jackman appear to be shorter. Yes, it takes some work, but it's certainly not impossible, or even that much of a problem. Simple camera tricks and creative filming would have taken care of that. But, crying over spilt milk and all that...

They did do that originally - on the commentary track for X1 they mentioned they had James Marsden walking on boards or in shoes that made him look taller, and Hugh mentioned in an interview that filmed a lot of scenes without his shoes so he'd look a little shorter. It was just a pain to do and I think continuity of how much shorter he looked was always off, so it went the way of Storm's accent by the time they got to X2.

I remember in Origin they explained he got the name 'Wolverine' from his days working in the mine when he was a kid. When he first got there with Rose, he was still that sickly little kid who barely talked and got beat up on all the time and the old timers working there thought he'd never last. When he did make it after all, one of the old timers commented "You ever seen one of them wolverines goin' after a root? They never give up till they got it. That's what that kid is...he's a Wolverine." And that's where the name came from.

 

[topdog1]

But the death faking was poorly executed, for example, He didn't even bury her body. That why I think instant death would have been better, at least this plot hole would have not been there.

There is NO plot hole here... as usual.

I'm glad they didn't feel the need to show him taking the body to the local hospital for proper treatment and burial. Showing him leave her at the emergency room door and then run off not wanting to answer questions so that he could track down Creed would've been dumb to show. Wanting revenge, would you stay behind to answer police questions? "Who are you (no past, no birth certificate) and why did the woman you live with, that was seen by your co-workers often, end up dead minutes after you ran off the job?" Hell no. It was night when Wolverine caught up to Creed, showing that indeed some time had pasted. Also, I'm sure Weapon X agents were tracking Fox and able to provide proper counter medication and transport away from any hospital or morgue. No flaws here. Also, would you simply dig a shallow grave and leave the woman you love in the woods in a hole? Hell no.

 

[topdog1]

I can’t believe the amount of ridiculous nitpicking and pseudo plot flaws I see being mentioned. A lot of these aren’t even close to being plot flaws in any meaningful way. I wouldn’t even call them story shortcomings. Do some people really need to have their hands held and have every detail spelled out for them on screen? Are they really unable to connect a few dots and let the story unfold in a crisp manner?

Whatever the case, I want to join in on the bash train. I noticed these glaring plot flaws and story holes. (Feel free to copy and use them around the net as we all bash this movie!)

-How come they never showed Wolverine paying for the sink he sliced to bits? I know the old couple died but Wolverine clearly promised to pay for the sink. They could’ve showed him making restitution to any family they had left.

-What about the Korean War??? Does Fox think that never happened? You can’t ignore a whole war, Fox! Why didn’t they show Wolverine during that war? Was he home sick? Wolverine doesn’t get sick!

-How come they never show Wolverine filling up his motorcycle with gas? Are we to believe that he has a magic bike that never needs fuel?

-Why does Wade assume (on the elevator) that a high protein diet gives you gas? Did the writers of this thing do any homework at all? It’s carbohydrates that give you gas.

-After Wolverine left Stryker’s team, what did he do walk home? We never see how he gets from Lagos to Canada without a passport.

-Wolverine clearly doesn’t know a thing about lumberjacking. He makes $18,500 a year but takes down that tree all wrong? WTF?

-How dare the writers have Gambit destroy a whole alley in New Orleans? Was it before or after Katrina? They never even mention it. What’s 15 years minus the not so distant future?

-In the comics, Wolverine is clearly showed to like to read Penthouse magazine. Do the writers of the film even bother to include this character trait? NO! I want the Wolverine from the books, damn you Fox.

I've seen it a few times now and even more glaring and horrifying mistakes have popped up.

-Do the writers even pay attention to what they write? Bradley clearly says "three tries for a dollar to turn the light off" at the carnival. On the young couple's third try, they break the light THUS TURNING IT OFF! Why didn't they get a prize???

-Judging by all the wastful government spending Stryker does, (turns down diamond revenue, spends a half billion dollars on what is only a viability experiment in Weapon X) he's clearly a liberal. How dare Fox let their news department influence the writers of this film, making a clear liberal the villain of the piece?

Damn you Fox!!!!!!!

 

[chaseter]

 

[sabetoonth]

But the death faking was poorly executed, for example, He didn't even bury her body. That why I think instant death would have been better, at least this plot hole would have not been there.

what are you going to do when someone kills your girl friend? logan rund after the rat bastard to rip out his heart while he screams

 

[roach]

did you just quote yourself????
People who lose a loved one go thru the stages of grief. One of them being denial. If you came home one day and your wife/gf was laying on the floor covered in blood would you assume she was dead or make sure she was dead????

 

[roach]

what are you going to do when someone kills your girl friend? logan rund after the rat bastard to rip out his heart while he screams

we understand that he went and tracked Victor down...what we dont get is why Logan didnt check to make sure she was dead

 

[sabetoonth]

i thought the first stage was anger? he probably stiffed her first

 

[roach]

Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

 

[pyromaniac]

I agree that Ebert was off but after this movie it seems to me that Jackman doesn't get the character either and neither did the director. Singer at least loved the characters and their history.

Singer did... but he never completely understood the Storm character, I think.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

we understand that he went and tracked Victor down...what we dont get is why Logan didnt check to make sure she was dead

Ay...? He did check, he checked her pulse. There was no pulse, so he assumed she was dead. And as for not smelling her being dead? Well the bag of blood was probably her blood that she left Weapon X before she was sent after Logan.

 

[returntovoid]

Here's how I think the Wolverine, Sabretooth and Silver Fox aspect of the movie should have been like, I just copy/pasted this from Sabretooth's bio at the official Marvel website.

As an adult, Creed took the name Sabretooth, and by the 1910s he was known by this name in a small Canadian frontier community where he intimidated almost everyone. One of the few exceptions was a young man named Logan, whom Sabretooth sensed had superhuman abilities similar to his own. Hating the love that existed between Logan and a young Indian girl named Silver Fox, Sabretooth brutally assaulted her, apparently raping her and leaving her for dead. The enraged Logan then forced Sabretooth into a pitched battle, which ended with Sabretooth victorious. Unbeknownst to either combatant, Silver Fox survived the attack and soon departed from the community.
Little is known about Sabretooth’s subsequent activities until the early 1960s when served in Team X, a special intelligence unit run by the Central Intelligence Agency for the subversive Weapon X Program. In Team X, Sabretooth was reunited with both Logan, now known as Wolverine, and Silver Fox, however none of them recalled their past experiences due to false memory implants provided by Weapon X’s ally Psi-Borg.

Source

 

[chaseter]

what are you going to do when someone kills your girl friend? logan rund after the rat bastard to rip out his heart while he screams

He didn't run after Creed. He sat there with Kayla for a while and in the deleted scene he even carried her body to the lake. It was also day time when she was killed and he went to the bar at night so it is safe to assume that hours have passed. He could have went after Creed at that very second but he didn't because he was grieving. That then begs the question with what he did with her body.

 

[X-Maniac]

He didn't run after Creed. He sat there with Kayla for a while and in the deleted scene he even carried her body to the lake. It was also day time when she was killed and he went to the bar at night so it is safe to assume that hours have passed. He could have went after Creed at that very second but he didn't because he was grieving. That then begs the question with what he did with her body.

I think he must have reported it to the authorities and it went through the normal procedures (autopsy, burial/funeral), with Stryker making sure it all looked convincing. Her death would be officially listed as an animal attack by a grizzly or something like that.

There's no way he couldn't report it as she was a school teacher locally.

What we could/should have had is expanded dialogue when he sees Kayla again. Along the lines of: "But there was a funeral, your school children all grieved for you." and Stryker saying: "All that was arranged Logan"

It certainly isn't the first time a person presumed dead in a movie (or TV show) has turned out to be alive.

 

[Ol'Canucklehead]

Just to make it clear, there is no deleted scene where he takes her to the lake, what you saw in the preview was what happened at the end of the film when his is carrying her away and is then shot by Stryker.