The Dark Knight Rises Plot Holes

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight Rises' started by Deserana, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. Deserana

    Deserana 2005/2008/2012

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    This thread is more for my benefit but recently I can't seem to scan through a thread without seeing the word plot hole. Apparently TDKR is filled with enough gaping plot holes to fit every bat-vehicle ever made inside, twice. Now before when I've asked people to give examples of plot holes on other forum sites roughly 60/70% of the examples aren't infact plot holes at all. They can either be put down to common sense or are just things that we don't need to know.

    So could I please see some of these legitmate TDKR plot holes...
     
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  2. Victarion

    Victarion Iron Captain

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    I'm in your camp Deserana, but to play the devil's advocate: Would it really be easy to fall through the ice? If so would they really drown. I mean, couldn't they just swim back to the surface where they fell through the ice?
     
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  3. Deserana

    Deserana 2005/2008/2012

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    See I wouldn't call this a plot hole. It's illogical sure the way that people are struggling on the ice then Batman walks along in heavy armour with zero trouble but it affects the plot in no way.

    The only plot hole I've seen that makes sense is the fact tha Bruce with no money or supplies is able to just appear in Gotham. Seeing as the plot is built around how Gotham is blocked off and being monitored at every angle it doesn't make sense for Bruce to just wonder in but this can be put down to other things (sneak in via the supply truck etc...)
     
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  4. Kahran Ramsus

    Kahran Ramsus Well-Known Member

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    People falling through the ice and dying is a major problem in the winter up north. It is a very real problem.
     
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  5. Victarion

    Victarion Iron Captain

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    @Deserana: I actually wasn't thinking about Batman being on the ice in his suit.

    I can explain yours. Wayne Manor looks to be separate from Gotham proper. Bruce hits Wayne Manor, goes to the Batcave and makes his way into Gotham from there.

    Edit: Thanks Kahran.
     
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  6. Greens

    Greens I am Danny DeVito

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    He doesn't even have a silver nipple suit stored somewhere?
     
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  7. Victarion

    Victarion Iron Captain

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    What can nipples do against the army?
     
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  8. Deserana

    Deserana 2005/2008/2012

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    Yeah that makes sense I forgot that it was quite distant from the rest of the city.

    Regarding the ice I remember there being a long arial shot that seemed to show that the further you went out the thinner the ice was so this probably explains why they fell through easier. I think it would be too much of a shock to the body in order to not only guide yourself to the surface but also to push back through the ice. Bane's goons would probably kill them if they resurfaced anyway.
     
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  9. Greens

    Greens I am Danny DeVito

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    Make them die of laughter.

    I can accept that Bruce finds a way back into Gotham. We know of his skills and training.
     
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  10. Hicksatpd

    Hicksatpd Well-Known Member

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    I'll preface this by saying up front that a lot of the so-called plot holes people complain about aren't really plot holes upon further examination, and I overall like this movie quite a bit.

    That having been said, I still have questions and issues (some of which aren't necessarily plot holes, either):

    1. How does Blake really know who Batman is? While Blake's backstory explains why the two would feel a sort of kinship and bond easily, and also why Bruce would see him as a worthy successor, it does nothing to explain how Blake figured out he was Batman. Sure, WE know as the audience to associate being Batman with being an orphan, BUT THE PEOPLE IN THE MOVIE DON'T KNOW THAT CONNECTION! How does he know whether or not Batman is an orphan? HE DOESN'T!

    2. Batman coming upon Selina Kyle just as she's surrounded by Bane's mercenaries at Dagget's place. Bruce JUST escaped from the police. Wouldn't he want to lay low from police or press helicopters just after that scrap? And did he even know that Dagget needed to be looked into at that point? I thought he only learned his connection to Bane later on? And even if I have that part wrong, he didn't yet know it was Bane who attacked the stock market; he only saw him with the bike helmet on, hiding his face/mask.

    3. When Batman first fights Bane, what happened to the rest of his arsenal? Why not use the grappling gun? Why not use one of his mine/grenades you see him use later when he shows Blake how to use one? If you want to get really nerdy... how about using that device in the heal of his boot to call the bats back in like in Begins? I think even Bane and his crew would have struggled with that long enough for him to get away and regroup, right? I basically just chalk this one up to plot necessity, but it still somewhat bothers me.

    4. Are we supposed to believe that in a Gotham city virtually devoid of any police, with at least Blackgate prison being freed immediately, that no other prisons were freed during those months? I mean did they just let them all starve in their cells? Because if not, there's the elephant in the room of the fact that Joker didn't die in TDK and he likely would have been in the middle of all of that anarchy while Bruce was stuck in the pit.

    5. As soon as Talia knew Bruce was back in Gotham... why the hell not tell Bane, #1, and then why the hell not go ahead and push the detonator before he has a chance to **** up their plan at the last minute?

    6. When the police rush Bane's mercenaries in the streets, why the hell didn't the automatic weapons the mercs had kill at least 4 times as many as the 'whopping' handful of cops that dropped dead? That made no sense.
     
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  11. Hawkeye70000000

    Hawkeye70000000 Active Member

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    Another thing to think about with the ice thing is the time gap between the guy falling through to Bruce being on the ice. It might have been earlier in winter when it happen. Also, night would have strength the ice since no sunlight was directly shining on it.

    Also, when someone falls thru the ice a one would loose sense of where at and try anything to get air. The snow on top could leave the waters dark and unable to find the open hole. This particular location was on a river that has a current and that would have kept a person from making their way out from beneath the waters. Even if he did make it out, hypothermia would have killed him.
     
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  12. Hawkeye70000000

    Hawkeye70000000 Active Member

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    It was just assumed that all the other prisons were also freed. As far as the joker either he was taken to a prison outside of Gotham or Nolan didn't want to mention the joker or try to replace him for the film. I suspect that the joker was part of his plan for the third film, but with Heath's death it changed the plan. It would have been nice for Nolan to explain why the joker would not have been available since he wasn't going to use him in it.

    At the time they were just arrogant to believe Bruce would defeat bane or be able to find the 'bomb' and block its signal. I still need to go back see how they explain how the detonator would impact the generator, whose physical condition was deteriorating, towards an explosion. It may have just sped up the explosion to a point were 'nuclear-like' explosion would occur no matter what. After all they only had minutes to prevent its meltdown and to be reversed. Besides, Bruce had no idea that Miranda was talia and was behind the whole. They had an ace up their sleeves that they thought would not affect their plans.

    Automatic weapons are very unreliable at killing just one person who is moving, but an army. Not everyone there were mercs but prisoners too. Can't guarantee that the bullets would stay on course to hit the target. Not like one can with a single fire shot.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  13. TheWhitCat

    TheWhitCat Well-Known Member

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    What I can't seem to grasp was the idea of waiting to detonate the fusion reactor with a trigger. Why wait? The only thing I can imagine is that The League left a chance for Gotham to save itself, or to "create a dramatic example to the rest of the world". I think it would have played out pretty well if we found out Talia and Bane were bluffing about the trigger and the motive was to allow the core to eventually consume the city leaving Batman with only a few minutes to save it.
     
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  14. Victarion

    Victarion Iron Captain

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    If they'd pulled the trigger right after seeing the batsignal, Bane wouldn't have had the chance to shoot for his apotheosis. I do, however, agree that Blake's reasoning is pretty shaky. JGL delivered his lines well enough that it didn't bother me on repeat viewings.

    Batman could've used the grapnel gun; however they were surrounded be Bane's men all of whom were armed. It would've been a small thing for one to simply shoot him in the arm, leaving Batman handicapped for the rest of the fight with Bane. Recall that this fight was deep in the sewers; Arkham was easy enough for the bats to reach compared to some hidden underground lair. I would've enjoyed seeing Batman use the device to create a diversion, allowing him to return to Gotham however.
     
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  15. Hicksatpd

    Hicksatpd Well-Known Member

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    ... I don't think that's very true at all. Not when you're being rushed from a far distance and have plenty of time to aim and open fire, which they did. There's a reason the machine gun changed modern warfare forever, and it's because in WW1 people were dropping like flies when they tried to attack 'the old way' en masse. Those guns absolutely would kill a lot of them quickly while they're in that formation. Minimum put them down with wounds.
     
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  16. MAKAVELI25

    MAKAVELI25 Well-Known Member

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    :doh: You can't be serious with this. Even the most die hard TDKR fan has to admit that scene was ********
     
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  17. MAKAVELI25

    MAKAVELI25 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously, I don't even see how someone could try to defend that scene
     
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  18. Hicksatpd

    Hicksatpd Well-Known Member

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    I somewhat can see it this way; Bane was clearly a man of vision who wanted it to all go 'his way', and he had every reason to believe he could beat Batman into a pulp a second time as well.

    Yeah, even though the logic doesn't work at all, JGL does a great job in that scene. I actually like that scene just because of his acting (well, and the score), even though writing-wise I think it's dumb.

    Mmm.. maybe. I mean Scarecrow's men also had guns but Batman still zipped around the ceiling picking them off.

    The other part of it is using the gun to wrap up Bane's legs or something like that. Part of that is Bruce initially, arrogantly, thought he could just manhandle Bane the way he does pretty much everybody, but around the time he throws those little powder bombs or what not at Bane, it seems like it would have been smarter to skip trying to intimidate the guy who just beat your ass with his bare hands and go straight ahead to trying to trip him up or wrap him up. Not to say that would have ended the fight, though.

    *edit* Although, again, he usually has those mines/bombs on his belt, too. Might have been a good time to bend his 'one rule' and maim Bane with one.

    That's a good point.

    I don't know that he'd want that much attention just yet. But maybe it could have been a fun call back had he used them to save Gordon on the ice? Of course, that swarm just as easily could have startled Gordon and caused him to inadvertently crack the ice himself. :D
     
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    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  19. Hicksatpd

    Hicksatpd Well-Known Member

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    It probably would have been goofy, but I wish they would have at least had the Bat use some kind of magnetic force to disarm the mercs just prior to the police rushing them or something.
     
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  20. Victarion

    Victarion Iron Captain

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    Was the emp canon attached to the Bat at that point? I forget.
     
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  21. BatmanBeyond

    BatmanBeyond Shadow On The Run

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    I think so. That's probably how Batman managed to disable one of the Tumblers prior to the actual battle.
     
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  22. Dwarf Slayer

    Dwarf Slayer Slayer of Dwarfs

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    I don't consider this a plot hole. I mean, he's Batman. He spent seven years traveling the world with very little resources. He could have easily gotten back to Gotham within three months. In TDK, it was shown that Bruce easily got into contact with South Korean smugglers. Bruce knows how the underworld works and can easily use that to his advantage. I'll agree that it's a little jarring in the movie, but I have no doubts about the capabilities of Bruce Wayne to travel the world with very little resources.

    As for the sneaking back into Gotham. Again, he's Batman. It's his job to infiltrate undetected. He could have easily crossed the ice during the cover of night. For the normal person, the ice might have been unstable. We're talking about Bruce Wayne though, the guy who was sword fighting on an unstable frozen in Batman Begins.
     
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  23. Hawkeye70000000

    Hawkeye70000000 Active Member

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    The weapons are automatics weapons not machine guns. Automatic weapons only increase the amount of bullets being fired per second thru a barrel. The more bullets being fired the kickback and pressure building the barrel where the bullet is guided thru. so, after each pull of the trigger the gun tends get push upward with each bullet being shot. you would need to wait a second or two to negate that affect. Machine guns rotate the barrels attached in a circular motion. This type of weapon is more effective since it doesn't have that pressure building up in the barrel or the reaction of a person to control it. Therefore, it is able to shoot straight and not risk a slight upper movement that could miss the target. Lastly, not every merc/con actually had an automatic weapon. There were like five people with those types of guns in front of the line and bane and his people were too far away to make a difference without having to move forward, but by that time it was a hand to hand combat.
     
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  24. Schrute

    Schrute Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's really plot holes people are complaining about, but legitimate reasons why they do not like the film overall or think it is the weakest of the trilogy.

    -The cell mate healing Bruce and allowing him to climb a pit 3 times, make a return journey to Gotham, and fight Bane again after just being hit in the back.
    -Bruce, with no money or resources it appears, being able to get back into Gotham somehow (I believe the main problem with this is that it would have been nice to see a quick 10 second montage of Bruce getting on a plane or ship or something)
    -Talia's death scene
    -Blake knowing Bruce is Batman by looking at him one day
    -Knowing what Bane wants to do, but not really why he wants to do it

    These are just some reasons I have seen written on the boards. Now, just because some people see nothing wrong with these, or other, examples doesn't mean they are not a problem. Of course, just because people do see something wrong with these scenes doesn't necessarily mean they are a problem.

    But, even if you find nothing wrong with some of the complaints I think they are still valid enough for people to understand why a viewer didn't like the film overall, or why they are still being discussed.

    And please, before people say "Well how come people don't complain about Joker doing this, or in BB when this happened..." I think more of TDKR complaints are valid reasons why someone doesn't like the film, compared to TDK where I think it is hard to find people not liking the film because they didn't see how Joker rigged the hospital to blow or whatever.

    I just believe some of these examples take away from the overall experience of TDKR for some.

    Just my opinion.
     
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  25. Tequilla

    Tequilla Well-Known Member

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    Yeah i agree. Some people usually mistake having some sort of problems with the narrative , with plot holes.
     
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