Point One

[runawayboulder]

Peter in a new identity would suck, but...who knows. We did have IDENTITY CRISIS and those four identities less than 14 years ago.

And that sucked......HARD.

 

[THANOSRULES]

The covers all look interesting.

I mean Ultron is a great villian, I've been excited to see another great storyline with him, I like the Defenders..and I tend to like "new teams" such as the last pictured.

I think people would be a bit more entusiastic if Marvel had just teased images and not the creative teams. Ha...

 

[Dread]

And that sucked......HARD.

Ironically, the SLINGERS characters who spawned forth after weren't bad. Sometimes out of the dirt of bad stories, come better ones, or decent characters.

The covers all look interesting.

I mean Ultron is a great villian, I've been excited to see another great storyline with him, I like the Defenders..and I tend to like "new teams" such as the last pictured.

I think people would be a bit more entusiastic if Marvel had just teased images and not the creative teams. Ha...

That's not viable because the nature of the business suggests that a lot of people follow creative teams almost as much as franchises.

That, and I'd rather brace for Loeb than be surprised. A gut-punch hurts less if you know it's coming.

 

[runawayboulder]

Ironically, the SLINGERS characters who spawned forth after weren't bad. Sometimes out of the dirt of bad stories, come better ones, or decent characters.

Yeah but it was more of a cult hit and was cancelled at 12 issues (I think). I never read it but respect they made something out of nothing.

 

[stillanerd]

Marvel obviously doesn't care about confusion if it means cold hard bucks. Waiting two years to clear up the hiccups of BND with OMIT proves that. If Marvel editorial thinks adding Morales to ASM could boost sales for it - especially as DC's New 52 will knock it out of the Top 10-20 for a few months - they'll politely ask Slott to work it in at some point. ASM is one of their top selling comics lately and they'll want to keep it in that position. Having it be outsold for a while by BATGIRL would be embarrassing.

Good point.

That said you've come up with some better theories about this than I did. Kaine would be an odd choice because he's supposed to be physically larger than Peter, and he had his own distinct costume. Yes, it was very 90's (spandex, spikes, and pads with a tattered cape), but that's his look. You're right that the "dark redeemed hero" angle is being taken by Brock and Venom, but since Brock is set to join Thompson in VENOM soon, this could be Slott's way of filling that gap in his series. Kaine also has long hair, though. Making him dress like Spider-Man more directly could be kind of odd. Admittedly, he is wearing a hoodie lately as Tarantula.

Since I know you came on to Amazing Spider-Man at the start of Big Time, you might not be aware that not only did Kaine cut his hair and shave off his beard during the Grim Hunt storyline (yes, he looked like a cross between Rob Zombie and Alan Moore when he was brought back during Brand New Day) but he also disguised himself as Spider-Man to the point where he fooled the Kravinoff family--this despite the fact that he is supposed to be taller and more muscular than Peter. So as absurd as that is, it's now been established that Kaine can pass himself off as a "Spider-Man."

Nobody at Marvel, frankly, has the stones to give MJ super powers and make her a heroine. They had their chance with Jackpot and blew it. If they weren't willing to do so then, they won't do it now. That makes as much sense as having Jason Todd return in a story, then have it turn out to be a fake-out, and then to have him seemingly return the very next story and then it turns out to be real. Oh, wait, DC did that. If MJ had super-powers, it would effectively erase a major part of why they supposedly never married, in OMIT anyway, as MJ would no longer be a damsel and could defend herself, even battle alongside Peter. Now, some of the bits with Carlie have unintentionally portrayed Peter as being so afraid of commitment and sharing power with a woman. It could make an interesting arc that all of Peter's hang-up's about women have nothing to do with his powers or enemies and everything to do with his own maturity and views, but I don't think we're heading there.

I had some long arguments about Spidey dating Ms. Marvel at the ASM topic and a few times I stated I didn't want to see it because Spider-Man couldn't handle her. He literally cannot handle being in a relationship with a woman of equal or greater physical power who not only does he not have to be the "uber responsible" one in terms of protection and risk, but HE may be the one who is the party being worried about. Yeah, Black Cat was his partner a while, but she was never as powerful even with "real" bad luck powers and some treatments by Tinkerer. Peter, somewhere, always chooses civilians to date because he can't handle fighting back to back with some he loves; he always has to keep that separate, and he does so even in EXTREME situations like Spider-Island when relaxing that mentality would have been logically efficient. Of course, fans of the marriage know that Peter can commit long term and love someone, and that MJ was a tough cookie without powers or SHIELD training. But, it isn't the same.

And it is a shame, because I do think such a relationship could be a lot of fun; like a more fun version of what Reed & Sue have but don't exploit (mostly because Reed always is in his lab being distant). Plus, having Spidey seriously date some super-heroines would be a good way to distract from the fact that he can never marry again, at least for a while. It'd beat coming up with another Mary Sue cipher once Carlie runs her course.

You make a very good point about Marvel's mishandling of Jackpot and even Steve Wacker admitted (in an interview with Spider-Man Crawlspace) that they dropped the ball on that one during Brand New Day. However, considering how Dan Slott, apparently, stated that Spider-Man shouldn't date superheroes, and considering how Marvel has not made any attempts thus far for making Peter and MJ a romantic couple again any time soon, this could be a way for MJ to have a greater role in the Spider-Man comics without necessarily making her Peter's girlfriend again or making her be just another cheerleader for Carlie, even though you're right in saying that, in light of One Moment in Time, it would be ironic for MJ to be in Peter's shoes.

You also make a very good observation, I think, about Peter feeling intimidated by, or rather inadequate around, female superheroes. Given his past relationship with the Black Cat and how he's reacted to Carlie in Spider-Island, it's clear Peter tries to be the protective alpha male in the partnership but, due to his own insecurities (and probably his physical attraction towards them) he fails time and time again at telling them to hang back, not to get involved, and let him handle the situation. Certainly if he had dated Ms. Marvel beyond one date, this angle certainly would have been a good reason to explore such a relationship, much like when Peter dated Kitty Pryde over in Ultimate Spider-Man.

Peter in a new identity would suck, but...who knows. We did have IDENTITY CRISIS and those four identities less than 14 years ago.

Agreed. And not only that, but the solicit for Amazing Spider-Man #676 makes a point about how this is the beginning for "the end of Spider-Man." But that doesn't necessarily mean Marvel is killing him off or retiring him. Rather, the third option of donning a new costumed identity fits in with that idea.

 

[THANOSRULES]

Ironically, the SLINGERS characters who spawned forth after weren't bad. Sometimes out of the dirt of bad stories, come better ones, or decent characters.



That's not viable because the nature of the business suggests that a lot of people follow creative teams almost as much as franchises.

That, and I'd rather brace for Loeb than be surprised. A gut-punch hurts less if you know it's coming.

Yeah, but its not like Marvel has not teased just images before.

The only WTF moment on these is the Loeb/Nova..i mean why would Loeb even want to write Nova? Loeb has nothing to gain as Giffen and DnA already made him "cool".

 

[Shockdingo]

I'm liking the sharing of theories on Scarlet Spidey, but the only reason I don't think it's Pete immediately is the seeming brutality of what he's doing to a random thug in a Daredevil mask. (what's up with that?) I mean the eyelids are popping open and there's blood trickling down his cheek.

I think the MJ option would be actually interesting. It'd be interesting for once to see a female hero who doesn't wear her gender and endowments on her sleeve. It reminds me of that interesting, but short lived FoxKids show: CyberSix. If you were a super cyborg on the run, wouldn't you want to completely hide your identity? Why not pose as a school teacher....a male school teacher?

Either way, here's hoping not a lot of manic hype based stories come out of this and destroy some stuff that's still currently fun.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, but its not like Marvel has not teased just images before.

The only WTF moment on these is the Loeb/Nova..i mean why would Loeb even want to write Nova? Loeb has nothing to gain as Giffen and DnA already made him "cool".

Nick Fury with the Defenders was another WTF moment for me.

 

[THANOSRULES]

616 Nick Fury is in a tough spot, I mean his Ultimate and Movie counterparts create such a differing image of him.

I'd guess the premise will be none to different than what we've seen..I.E. Fury gathers a team of Badasses to take on 1st class (or secret) threats. It's not that different than Ultimates.

 

[Dread]

Yeah but it was more of a cult hit and was cancelled at 12 issues (I think). I never read it but respect they made something out of nothing.

Ditto. I'd read it, but it's a bear to find in back issue bins, least as a complete run.

Since I know you came on to Amazing Spider-Man at the start of Big Time, you might not be aware that not only did Kaine cut his hair and shave off his beard during the Grim Hunt storyline (yes, he looked like a cross between Rob Zombie and Alan Moore when he was brought back during Brand New Day) but he also disguised himself as Spider-Man to the point where he fooled the Kravinoff family--this despite the fact that he is supposed to be taller and more muscular than Peter. So as absurd as that is, it's now been established that Kaine can pass himself off as a "Spider-Man."

I read various SAGA material, so I knew that he impersonated Spidey at one point during GRIM HUNT, but I didn't know he'd cleaned up. I thought Kaine was supposed to have some "scars" from "clone degeneration", or at least he did back in the 90's.

In fairness, Kraven himself posed as Spider-Man before and he's bigger too; he fooled Vermin at least. The Kravinoff family are just plain nuts, anyway.

Probably the most absurd "impersonation" of Spider-Man wasn't in any comic book, but during the second season of FoxKids' "SPIDER-MAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES" during one of the many Morbius episodes during the "Neogenic Nightmare" arc. At one point, Spider-Man is blamed for a series of attacks and a TV news camera spots Morbius climbing a building's ledge and the anchor immediately identifies him as Spider-Man. Now...Morbius has chalk white skin, long black hair, and a massive black trench-coat. And in general looks NOTHING LIKE SPIDER-MAN OR ANY OTHER SUPERHERO (besides maybe Cadaver from SECRET DEFENDERS). If memory serves, it may have been a report from "JTV", the station owned by J.J.; and here you thought FOX NEWS had biased reporting! Even as a 12 year old kid watching that, I thought it was pretty absurd.

You make a very good point about Marvel's mishandling of Jackpot and even Steve Wacker admitted (in an interview with Spider-Man Crawlspace) that they dropped the ball on that one during Brand New Day. However, considering how Dan Slott, apparently, stated that Spider-Man shouldn't date superheroes, and considering how Marvel has not made any attempts thus far for making Peter and MJ a romantic couple again any time soon, this could be a way for MJ to have a greater role in the Spider-Man comics without necessarily making her Peter's girlfriend again or making her be just another cheerleader for Carlie, even though you're right in saying that, in light of One Moment in Time, it would be ironic for MJ to be in Peter's shoes.

You also make a very good observation, I think, about Peter feeling intimidated by, or rather inadequate around, female superheroes. Given his past relationship with the Black Cat and how he's reacted to Carlie in Spider-Island, it's clear Peter tries to be the protective alpha male in the partnership but, due to his own insecurities (and probably his physical attraction towards them) he fails time and time again at telling them to hang back, not to get involved, and let him handle the situation. Certainly if he had dated Ms. Marvel beyond one date, this angle certainly would have been a good reason to explore such a relationship, much like when Peter dated Kitty Pryde over in Ultimate Spider-Man.

At the time I sometimes thought USM took things too far in the other direction - that USM there was often incompetent, getting unmasked and captured far too often, and seemed to always rely on others or dumb luck to save him. At least that's what issues 80 through 100 felt like when I left.

The irony is MJ still has a similar role in the series as she used to; she's still the person Peter goes to when he REALLY needs emotional support or real life advice, and they do try to look after each other. Just without being married, they don't get to share any of the perks like sex or downsides like arguing over bills. Given the idea that they were neighbors and longtime friends long before the marriage, it makes sense. But, it is what it is. When Peter has real trouble, he goes to MJ. When he wants to pork someone, he goes to Carlie. This doesn't do Carlie any favors, especially when Peter refuses to let her into his life even when not doing so is absurd and even tactically stupid. MJ naturally claimed that Peter's resistance to do so means he doesn't really love Carlie - and if he doesn't, why jerk her around? In fairness, it'd hardly be the first woman Peter's more or less strung along due to insecurities - Debra Whitman got that in a nutshell. For an "everyman", Peter can be a jerk sometimes. I've heard women justify the attraction to "bad boys" over "nice guys" like Peter in that many "nice guys" are often deeply insecure and carry more surprises and baggage, while a "hot but crude" biker or gang member is an least obvious and the woman knows what to get into.

If there really is a "Peter must NEVER date a super-heroine" edict somewhere on a wall, then I think it should be seriously reconsidered. Part of what made BIG TIME attractive to me was the angle of doing things with Spider-Man's universe that either had never been done, or hadn't been done well in a very long time. John Bryne actually tried the "Peter works as a scientist" bit in the late 90's, but it didn't stick. Slott's not a dumb guy; he has to know few Spider-fans take Peter's relationships seriously anymore because OMD made it clear that Marvel wouldn't allow them to get serious again. If a 20 year marriage wasn't sacred, then a newer relationship ain't ironclad. Thus, romantics subplots are planned in terms of running courses and accomplishing certain objectives. At the very least, Slott and Wacker should be seriously trying to ATTEMPT to distract the reader from the reality of Peter's Eternal Bachelorhood. With a civilian character, she will hit that "make or break" wall eventually and then once there, wheels either spin aimlessly or she has to leave the stage or get axed off. But with a super-heroine, there would be distraction in the novelty and a quiet understanding that neither party may want to commit due to "the life".

Peter's issues with women have long been fodder for stories. I actually wouldn't mind a story that seriously examined his hesitancy to date a true equal despite opportunities or even his own unresolved macho tendencies despite his insistence that he's more cultured than, say, Flash Thompson. This could easily be linked to his tenure with the Future Foundation; over there he gets to see Mr. Fantastic and Invisible Woman run a family as well as save the world every day. Reed's often neglectful due to his science, but to a degree Sue is aware of that in Reed, otherwise she's strong enough to have left him if that was such a concern. He admires a lot about Reed, why not look into the idea of finding a woman as strong or stronger than he is (as other material, such as Gage's underrated SPIDER-MAN AND THE FANTASTIC FOUR mini series, had Spidey note his awareness that Sue is the most powerful of the Four). Hell, Peter's a guy who's once had stress ulcers; a lady who he doesn't have to fret about as much every time Osborn sneers at him because she can bench press a dump truck just on that level would be easier for him. It certainly seems like a better alternative to me than someone trying to cobble together another random Mary Sue to fill the role of Obligatory Girlfriend once the thing with Carlie is over.

Now...if Alonso, Joe Q and so on, especially in the wake of the New 52, genuinely believed having Spidey marry again would sell 100k or more, would they do it? Yes, and they'd give it 52 variant covers. But that wouldn't change the notion that it wouldn't last longer than the next business cycle. If you're willing to cut down a redwood, insisting that an oak sapling is safe is an empty promise.

Agreed. And not only that, but the solicit for Amazing Spider-Man #676 makes a point about how this is the beginning for "the end of Spider-Man." But that doesn't necessarily mean Marvel is killing him off or retiring him. Rather, the third option of donning a new costumed identity fits in with that idea.

It may come from the idea that Spider-Man's public relations will suffer greatly after SPIDER-ISLAND. No matter what Mr. Fantastic says, mayor Jameson will still blame Spidey for it. And the memory of a gang of costumed Spider-Men rampaging through midtown will be very fresh. Basically, the era of J.J. being coerced into awarding Spidey a medal or any police chief coordinating things with him such as during the Massacre incident may be over for a bit. Ironically, given Peter Parker's assistance during that rampage, it may be an ironic era where Spider-Man is back to being a menace but Peter Parker for a bit is heralded as a local hero. SPIDER-ISLAND allowed Peter to basically be Spider-Man without having to be Spider-Man, if that makes sense; he doesn't have to duck into an alley and pull a mask on. Maybe we'll get an arc where Peter tries to do what he can without being Spider-Man for a while.

In fairness, the angle of "any madman could have ripped off that costume" has usually been what Matt Murdock usually used many times someone tried to insist he was Daredevil. Many times that's been averted by having someone else wear the suit somewhere (such as Spidey himself).

Yeah, but its not like Marvel has not teased just images before.

The only WTF moment on these is the Loeb/Nova..i mean why would Loeb even want to write Nova? Loeb has nothing to gain as Giffen and DnA already made him "cool".

Loeb sells; Giffen and DnA don't, sadly.

Maybe this has something to do with CABLE REBORN/AVENGERS X-SANCTION, but I can't imagine what. Then again, a lot of Loeb stories don't make a lick of sense. If Tim Sale isn't around, Loeb's story isn't sound.

I'm liking the sharing of theories on Scarlet Spidey, but the only reason I don't think it's Pete immediately is the seeming brutality of what he's doing to a random thug in a Daredevil mask. (what's up with that?) I mean the eyelids are popping open and there's blood trickling down his cheek.

I think the MJ option would be actually interesting. It'd be interesting for once to see a female hero who doesn't wear her gender and endowments on her sleeve. It reminds me of that interesting, but short lived FoxKids show: CyberSix. If you were a super cyborg on the run, wouldn't you want to completely hide your identity? Why not pose as a school teacher....a male school teacher?

Either way, here's hoping not a lot of manic hype based stories come out of this and destroy some stuff that's still currently fun.

For the record, CYBERSIX was actually an Argentinian comic before it became a 13 episode cartoon series in 1999.

There were a couple of female villains whose gender wasn't obvious. Probably the most bizarre was Vamp, who would transform into a giant, bald, and very male, cave man monster called Animus. Scourge killed her/him/it off eventually. Stellaris, an armored alien female warrior, wears a suit of living armor that in no way hints that she's female - it was inspired by a Celestial. She last popped up in ANNIHILATION: RONAN.

The question is, of course, would MJ really be that violent as a vigilante? At least violent enough as the picture implies.

The Kaine theory may be the most probable. That or another Spider-identity. Or a frame up job by a baddie; at least two of the Sinister Six are capable of that.

Nick Fury with the Defenders was another WTF moment for me.

It is a bit odd. But, the DEFENDERS have pretty much featured everyone at some point. Hawkeye and Daredevil were on the team a while. Tagak The Leopard Lord was on the roster for a day, for heaven's sake.

 

[Shockdingo]

Oh crap, yea, I remember Vamp from Deadpool's 3rd issue. Hmm, interesting, I never knew about Stellaris.

 

[Dread]

Oh crap, yea, I remember Vamp from Deadpool's 3rd issue. Hmm, interesting, I never knew about Stellaris.

Wasn't the Vamp from DEADPOOL a proto-husk clone thing? I forget.

Another character akin to that was Madame X, who posed as the top Communist espionage agent Comrade X (via a padded suit, a mask and a voice modifier). Her identity and gender were revealed by Ant-Man. As added trivia, she was technically Ant-Man's first named opponent back in those old TALES TO ASTONISH days. She only had one appearance since then, though. Ironically, she was probably one of few early Ant-Man villains who wasn't a bit of a loser.

So, yes, that sort of thing comes up now and then for villains. Heroes, not so much.

There was Mantra from the old ULTRAVERSE line, who was the reincarnation of a warrior who for 1500 years was reincarnated in male bodies but happened to now be a woman in modern times, I believe. Technically Marvel owns the rights to all the Ultraverse characters, but there's no plan to use any of 'em.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Stellaris was pretty cool. Haven't even thought of her in forever.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Two Point One covers by Andy Kubert and Nick Bradshaw

Kubert's looks kind of sloppy. I wonder if he drew it too quickly or if he's just getting lazy in his old age. Although it does say "not final cover art shown," so maybe he'll clean it up by publication time.

I'm still not used to seeing Hawkeye in his wannabe-movie costume, either. They could at least make him lose those stupid sunglasses.

 

[THANOSRULES]

Two Point One covers by Andy Kubert and Nick Bradshaw

Kubert's looks kind of sloppy. I wonder if he drew it too quickly or if he's just getting lazy in his old age. Although it does say "not final cover art shown," so maybe he'll clean it up by publication time.

I'm still not used to seeing Hawkeye in his wannabe-movie costume, either. They could at least make him lose those stupid sunglasses.

Hawkeye's look is epic fail, but the cover looks interesting. I am interested in that "team"?. Whose that guy with the red mask..is it Ben Reily and if so why him AND Spidey? Ultron on the "team"?

The other cover just looks like a generic superhero poster, aside from a 12 year old looking Human Torch?

I am interested

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think it represents one team. I think it's just meant to be various major characters involved in this Point One one-shot. That spider-looking guy you mentioned is from one of the earlier promo pics, for example.

 

[THANOSRULES]

Yeah interesting how the variant doesnt feature many of the characters on the other cover.

I saw the utility belt on the red hood guy and was not sure, he looks less spidey-ish there..maybe even could be a new angle for Bucky?

Corp, now that I look at them, I don't think those are the same characters.

Edit: oh crap, now I see, thought the other red character was DD

 

[TheCorpulent1]

So, this is out now. Anyone actually buy it? I flipped through it and found that the Nova section looked boring and absolutely nothing else in the issue interested me in the least, so I put it right back. Thanks for concentrating all that crap into one oversized issue, Marvel; $5 saved.

 

[JewishHobbit]

$6 saved actually, and the same goes for me. I skimmed it and decided it wasn't worth the cost. I might buy it at half priced books if it shows up there but that's about the only chance of that happening.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Was it $5.99? Christ, even better.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Yup... it was rediculous. I really had no plan on buying it and then skimming it the Nova story was the only one I felt was interesting enough to give me pause. I couldn't help but to feel that these weren't unique little snippets but stories just cut and pasted from upcoming issues. Kinda like how they cut and past old comics with 3 pages of new material and call it a new comic... but in reverse.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Did they mention who the Nova in question was? I was wondering if it was Robbie, but I didn't care enough to actually read that story (which would've been in bad taste anyway, since I knew I wasn't buying it).

 

[hippie_hunter]

I found it quite boring. I feel like it was the biggest $6 wasted EVER.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I only skimmed the story but I didn't notice any names mentioned.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I found it quite boring. I feel like it was the biggest $6 wasted EVER.

Yeah, but you knew it'd be a wasted $6. A story featuring some Nova who's not Richie, some wacky story about twins who I guess are going to be foisted upon the Avengers, some anonymous new X-Men villains who'll probably be dead or forgotten within a year, something about Ultron that probably sucks given that it's Millar working outside the confines of the Ultimate universe, Kaine getting pushed into the Scarlet Spider identity, and a preview of the increasingly terrible-looking upcoming Defenders series? That was a sucker's bet for $6 from the get-go.