Pope Benedict to retire for health reasons

[Thundercrack85]

Catholicism is a broken religion in my opinion.

You have an aging, introverted leadership which is completely out of touch with its own members. Its leadership is dominated by Europeans, even though most of the religion's followers live outside of Europe. The majority of Catholics don't adhere to the church's teachings (birth control, abortion, etc).

Compare it to any of the other thriving Christian churches, and its dysfunction is really striking. It's a religion sticking to what's essentially a Middle Age feudal system in the 21st century.

 

[NickNitro]

I feel its because of recent movements for equal rights in the past few decades that are making people look more inward and start to really evaluate their own morals.

I feel all forms of religion in some way or another hold the spirit back from its true potential. You can believe in a deity('s) but to be burdened by such strict rules and guidelines I feel is just another way to repress the human ability to become closer to the essence of the world around them.

I was raised Catholic but have been reading books like "The Way of Zen" and they have started to open my eyes to other forms of thought that are far less suppressive than traditional religion.

 

[James]

That's why we need a solution that I think everyone can agree on.

I'd convert.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I never saw why there was so much hate for Benedict, aside from....you know, covering up the child abuse.

He was a elderly man that held to the tenets of Catholicism dearly. John Paul II was the same way. In fact, Cardinal Ratzinger was JP's right hand man at the end of his life, so that says something about what John Paul thought of him. Benedict didn't have JP's warm personality but that hardly makes him a bad person.

 

[Darthphere]

I never saw why there was so much hate for Benedict, aside from....you know, covering up the child abuse.

He was a elderly man that held to the tenets of Catholicism dearly. John Paul II was the same way. In fact, Cardinal Ratzinger was JP's right hand man at the end of his life, so that says something about what John Paul thought of him. Benedict didn't have JP's warm personality but that hardly makes him a bad person.

I don't understand the point you were trying to make lol.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I don't understand the point you were trying to make lol.

I guess I didnt pay much attention to Ratzinger before he became Pope. Was he known for covering up the abuse before or after he became Pontiff? I just know that people were jumping on him as soon as he was elected that it was "No more Mr. Nice Pope."

 

[Darthphere]

I guess I didnt pay much attention to Ratzinger before he became Pope. Was he known for covering up the abuse before or after he became Pontiff? I just know that people were jumping on him as soon as he was elected that it was "No more Mr. Nice Pope."

Most of the cover up came when he was a Cardinal when apparently he was in charge of reviewing all those accusations.

 

[KalMart]

Catholicism is a broken religion in my opinion.

Religion as a concept is broken.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I never saw why there was so much hate for Benedict, aside from....you know, covering up the child abuse.

You make it sound like you'd need more reason to loathe someone.

I mean, I can give you reasons, if you'd like.

John Paul II did a number of things Benedict did, but the child molestation thing didn't really blow up until after he died. And unlike Benedict, John Paul II was very charismatic.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Religion as a concept is broken.

Yes, but I mean, Catholicism is like broken even by religious norms. It's leadership is completely out of touch with its members. Its members barely pay lip service to the religion's fundamental tenets, etc.

Say what you will about Mormonism, but it's a well-oiled machine.

 

[Hobgoblin]

You make it sound like you'd need more reason to loathe someone.

I mean, I can give you reasons, if you'd like.

John Paul II did a number of things Benedict did, but the child molestation thing didn't really blow up until after he died. And unlike Benedict, John Paul II was very charismatic.

I dont see lack of charisma as a bad thing. I thought the child abuse story blew up well before JP's death but whatever.

Yes, but I mean, Catholicism is like broken even by religious norms. It's leadership is completely out of touch with its members. Its members barely pay lip service to the religion's fundamental tenets, etc.

Say what you will about Mormonism, but it's a well-oiled machine.

I know many Catholics that are still deeply committed to the Church. I dont think the Church is something that gets to "update" itself. It has its beliefs and stick so them, regardless of what other people think. I dont agree with all of those beliefs but I do respect that the Church doesnt change its tenets just to be popular.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I dont see lack of charisma as a bad thing. I thought the child abuse story blew up well before JP's death but whatever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

I'd say the guy who covered a lot of it up becoming Pope, played a big role in it becoming major headlines.

 

[Hobgoblin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

I'd say the guy who covered a lot of it up becoming Pope, played a big role in it becoming major headlines.

And this article says he wanted JP to be even more aggressive in rooting out pedophiles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#Sexual_abuse_in_the_Catholic_Church

 

[KalMart]

Yes, but I mean, Catholicism is like broken even by religious norms. It's leadership is completely out of touch with its members. Its members barely pay lip service to the religion's fundamental tenets, etc.

Say what you will about Mormonism, but it's a well-oiled machine.

I kinda' like the multiple-wives part.

 

[BestGirl]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

I'd say the guy who covered a lot of it up becoming Pope, played a big role in it becoming major headlines.

I can't believe he was even elected as Pope in the first place. Did the College of Cardinals perform any background check on Benedict?

 

[Thundercrack85]

I know many Catholics that are still deeply committed to the Church. I dont think the Church is something that gets to "update" itself. It has its beliefs and stick so them, regardless of what other people think. I dont agree with all of those beliefs but I do respect that the Church doesnt change its tenets just to be popular.

I think the Catholic church is fundamentally flawed, in that it was founded in a time when people had very little concept of democracy and transparency. The Pope was a king of kings, with soldiers, serfs, etc. He was God's proxy on Earth.

It's autocratic by nature, and as a result, is struggling to exist in an increasingly free and liberal world.

It will either change, or it will collapse. It's been in a downward spiral ever since literacy rates increased.

 

[KalMart]

And this article says he wanted JP to be even more aggressive in rooting out pedophiles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#Sexual_abuse_in_the_Catholic_Church

If you watch the HBO documentary, they go over how he was 'torn' between getting it more out there and rising to the top. Guess we found out what he chose.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I can't believe he was even elected as Pope in the first place. Did the College of Cardinals perform any background check on Benedict?

They're all complicit (some more-so than others). But, Benedict was John Paul II's right hand man, that was what got him the job.

 

[KalMart]

I can't believe he was even elected as Pope in the first place. Did the College of Cardinals perform any background check on Benedict?

This is the same organization that had a sex abuser and misogynist as their biggest fundraiser under JP II, who finally got sent away when JP II died. By comparison Ratzinger was a by-the-numbers bookworm who agreed not to let the cat out of the bag.

 

[BestGirl]

They're all complicit (some more-so than others). But, Benedict was John Paul II's right hand man, that was what got him the job.

I can understand that. Still, it's hard to comprehend how they never thought this decision would come back to bite them in the ash. Then again, look at the Penn State pedophile scandal. I guess the sort of people who would cover up child rape aren't very bright or capable of thinking about the future.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I think the Catholic church is fundamentally flawed, in that it was founded in a time when people had very little concept of democracy and transparency. The Pope was a king of kings, with soldiers, serfs, etc. He was God's proxy on Earth.

It's autocratic by nature, and as a result, is struggling to exist in an increasingly free and liberal world.

It will either change, or it will collapse. It's been in a downward spiral ever since literacy rates increased.

Perhaps one day it will collapse, I dont know. But not a total collapse any time soon. As I said before, I know many people who are still devoted to the Church, especially if they live in Latin America. Many people have a fundamental craving for a sense of spirituality. As long as that craving exists, there will be some form of religion. Many people just dont get a "warm cuddly" feeling from science.

 

[KalMart]

I can understand that. Still, it's hard to comprehend how they never thought this decision would come back to bite them in the ash. Then again, look at the Penn State pedophile scandal. I guess the sort of people who would cover up child rape aren't very bright or capable of thinking about the future.

They thought they were powerful and influential enough to keep it quiet within their own walls, and misdirect murmurs about it with dogma and pageantry.

 

[Thundercrack85]

To be fair, for all the talk, it hasn't changed much. Granted, congregations are dwindling in the developed world, but that's for a number of reasons.

Benedict will never be prosecuted. In fact, most of the Catholic hierarchy is above the law. They'll get a priest here and there, maybe a cardinal. But, most of them will never even be in court.

The Church is more concerned about Harry Potter than child molestation.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Perhaps one day it will collapse, I dont know. But not a total collapse any time soon. As I said before, I know many people who are still devoted to the Church, especially if they live in Latin America. Many people have a fundamental craving for a sense of spirituality. As long as that craving exists, there will be some form of religion. Many people just dont get a "warm cuddly" feeling from science.

Well, many are jumping ship. Some atheists, most just find a church less deaf to the wants and needs of its members.

Protestants are cleaning house.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Well, many are jumping ship. Some atheists, most just find a church less deaf to the wants and needs of its members.

Protestants are cleaning house.

How many are jumping ship? My father talked about doing that. He claimed he wanted to go to a Protestant church and not give any more money to the Church until it cleaned up the mess. He still goes to Catholic mass.

A lot of people are angry and complaining but then they say "I was raised Catholic, I'll die Catholic."