The Pope on Evolution, creationism

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Pope: Science too narrow to explain creation
Pontiff praised science, didn't endorse creationist, intelligent design views


Vincenzo Pinto / AFP - Getty Images
Pope Benedict XVI blesses the faithfull as he arrives for his weekly audience in Saint Peter's Square.
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By Tom Heneghan
[URL="http://www.reuters.com/"][/URL] Updated: 3:04 p.m. CT April 11, 2007
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PARIS - Pope Benedict, elaborating his views on evolution for the first time as Pontiff, says science has narrowed the way life’s origins are understood and Christians should take a broader approach to the question.
The Pope also says the Darwinist theory of evolution is not completely provable because mutations over hundreds of thousands of years cannot be reproduced in a laboratory.
But Benedict, whose remarks were published on Wednesday in Germany in the book “Schoepfung und Evolution” (Creation and Evolution), praised scientific progress and did not endorse creationist or “intelligent design” views about life’s origins.
Those arguments, proposed mostly by conservative Protestants and derided by scientists, have stoked recurring battles over the teaching of evolution in the United States. Some European Christians and Turkish Muslims have recently echoed these views.
“Science has opened up large dimensions of reason ... and thus brought us new insights,” Benedict, a former theology professor, said at the closed-door seminar with his former doctoral students last September that the book documents.
“But in the joy at the extent of its discoveries, it tends to take away from us dimensions of reason that we still need. Its results lead to questions that go beyond its methodical canon and cannot be answered within it,” he said.
“The issue is reclaiming a dimension of reason we have lost,” he said, adding that the evolution debate was actually about “the great fundamental questions of philosophy — where man and the world came from and where they are going.”
Not by faith alone
Speculation about Benedict’s views on evolution have been rife ever since a former student and close advisor, Vienna Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn, published an article in 2005 that seemed to align the Church with the “intelligent design” view.
“Intelligent design” (ID) argues that some forms of life are too complex to have evolved randomly, as Charles Darwin proposed in his 1859 book “The Origin of Species.” It says a higher intelligence must have done this but does not name it as God.
Scientists denounce this as a disguised form of creationism, the view that God created the world just as the Bible says. U.S. courts have ruled both creationism and ID are religious views that cannot be taught in public school science classes there.
In the book, Benedict defended what is known as “theistic evolution,” the view held by Roman Catholic, Orthodox and mainline Protestant churches that God created life through evolution and religion and science need not clash over this.
“I would not depend on faith alone to explain the whole picture,” he remarked during the discussion held at the papal summer palace in Castel Gandolfo outside Rome.
He also denied using a “God-of-the-gaps” argument that sees divine intervention whenever science cannot explain something.

“It’s not as if I wanted to stuff the dear God into these gaps — he is too great to fit into such gaps,” he said in the book that publisher Sankt Ulrich Verlag in Augsburg said would later be translated into other languages.
That is a philosophical or ideological conclusion not supported by facts, they say, because science cannot prove who or what originally created the universe and life in it.
“Both popular and scientific texts about evolution often say that ’nature’ or ’evolution’ has done this or that,” Benedict said in the book which included lectures from theologian Schoenborn, two philosophers and a chemistry professor.
“Just who is this ’nature’ or ’evolution’ as (an active) subject? It doesn’t exist at all!” the Pope said.
Benedict argued that evolution had a rationality that the theory of purely random selection could not explain.
“The process itself is rational despite the mistakes and confusion as it goes through a narrow corridor choosing a few positive mutations and using low probability,” he said.
“This ... inevitably leads to a question that goes beyond science ... where did this rationality come from?” he asked. Answering his own question, he said it came from the “creative reason” of God.

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He's not the real pope anyway...

This is:

rabbit.jpg
 
HAHAHAHAHAHA. Great post ^.

I dont know. I agree with evolution. I believe in God and felt he created the spark that created life, but life itself evolved.
 
I'm Agnostic. I believe there is something but its not God.
 
HAHAHAHAHAHA. Great post ^.

I dont know. I agree with evolution. I believe in God and felt he created the spark that created life, but life itself evolved.

The spark that created evolution is heat.

Scientists have proven in laboratory conditions that if you heat oxygen, hydrogen, carbon, and nitrogen, they will produce all four of the nitrogen bases found in your DNA, Thymine, Cytosine, Guanine, and Cytosine, and they will start pairing together just like they appear in your DNA. This process will also produce spheres that resembles empty cells, and polypeptide chains will appear and start producing protein molecules.

I'm an atheist who is supremely confident in his beliefs, but the Pope did come off as sounding rather intelligent. I really hate the "Let's use God to fill in the gaps, whenever something in unknown or not yet explained" argument.
 
The spark that created evolution is heat.

Scientists have proven in laboratory conditions that if you heat oxygen, hydrogen, carbon, and nitrogen, they will produce all four of the nitrogen bases found in your DNA, Thymine, Cytosine, Guanine, and Cytosine, and they will start pairing together just like they appear in your DNA. This process will also produce spheres that resembles empty cells, and polypeptide chains will appear and start producing protein molecules.

I'm an atheist who is supremely confident in his beliefs, but the Pope did come off as sounding rather intelligent. I really hate the "Let's use God to fill in the gaps, whenever something in unknown or not yet explained" argument.


Well, i think you are completely wrong, but thats because i believe what i believe and you cant change that. I'm not trying to come off as an ass, but thats just me. I feel that God created the spark that life flourished from. Ill never believe other wise. I mean i love to hear everyones point of view, but at the end of the day, ill believe what i want, you believe what you want and well go play some Xbox and have a great time being that our beliefs shouldn't hinder our friendship.
 
Well, i think you are completely wrong, but thats because i believe what i believe and you cant change that. I'm not trying to come off as an ass, but thats just me. I feel that God created the spark that life flourished from. Ill never believe other wise. I mean i love to hear everyones point of view, but at the end of the day, ill believe what i want, you believe what you want and well go play some Xbox and have a great time being that our beliefs shouldn't hinder our friendship.
See that's just idiotic. What if the that spark that God created was evolution? The heating of the elements and than through a gradual process it creates.
 
Well, i think you are completely wrong, but thats because i believe what i believe and you cant change that. I'm not trying to come off as an ass, but thats just me. I feel that God created the spark that life flourished from. Ill never believe other wise. I mean i love to hear everyones point of view, but at the end of the day, ill believe what i want, you believe what you want and well go play some Xbox and have a great time being that our beliefs shouldn't hinder our friendship.


I don't think your being an ass, but you could give a reason as to why you think God created it, when there is no evidence, and it has been proven, that if these conditions are present, life will evolve, without any intelligent help. We know that these chemicals are present on earth, and we know what happens when those chemicals are present. Those two things are known facts.

Some people say "well science can't explain this" but that's using God gaps. There will always be things and answers unkown to man. We dont' know certain answers because we haven't discovered them yet, and not because God created them.
 
The Pope’s a bigger wind bag than Bush (and that’s saying something). I love how Catholics put so much faith in some prehistoric hemorrhoid that wear a stupid hat. I’ll take Stephen Hawking over a dude that thinks statues of Mary can cry blood.
 
The Pope’s a bigger wind bag than Bush (and that’s saying something). I love how Catholics put so much faith in some prehistoric hemorrhoid that wear a stupid hat. I’ll take Stephen Hawking over a dude that thinks statues of Mary can cry blood.


Hey man that's a little harsh. I think believing in God is silly, but the Pope isn't a war maniac idiot. He sounds more reasonable on the God subject than most religous people as well.
 
See that's just idiotic. What if the that spark that God created was evolution? The heating of the elements and than through a gradual process it creates.

You CANT get something from nothing. How the hell did the universe start? It cant just start, something or someone had to create it. As i stated, my belief is, that God created the start, but he let life itself work out. Im not saying God snapped his fingers and poof, Adam and Eve, i dont think it happened like that.
 
See that's just idiotic. What if the that spark that God created was evolution? The heating of the elements and than through a gradual process it creates.


Uhh, thats exactly what i stated. My feeling is that God created the start point.
 
those are some really limited poll options there, bite.
 
I'll give the Nazi-Pope this: He's a lot more open-minded about science and evolution than I figured he would be.

But he's still a Nazi.
 
You CANT get something from nothing. How the hell did the universe start? It cant just start, something or someone had to create it. As i stated, my belief is, that God created the start, but he let life itself work out. Im not saying God snapped his fingers and poof, Adam and Eve, i dont think it happened like that.

Then who made god? How did god start?
 
Never bought into the whole bigbang crap.
I do think there is a grander being behind life though.
 
Most Catholic priests are not creationists.

Most actually endorse a scientific viewpoint on life. They're not necessarily all evolutionists (Darwinism is only one theory related to evolution), but of all the Catholic priests I've known, I've never seen one who endorsed creationism literally. That goes for all demographics of priests. The Babyboomers, Gen-x'ers, and Gen-y.
 
I'm a Roman Catholic, and I believe in theistic evolution. I think God created the elements that caused The Big Bang, and that he created all the basic elements that formed evolution and came up with the concept of what we would evolve into.

The Catholic Church has actually kept a fairly open mind about evolution. A lot of Catholic schools are teaching it.
 
I'm a Roman Catholic, and I believe in theistic evolution. I think God created the elements that caused The Big Bang, and that he created all the basic elements that formed evolution and came up with the concept of what we would evolve into.

Thats pretty much my belief.
 
I find relgion in it's complete form implausible, subscribing to the classic Marxist point of view on the subject myself.

I have yet to hear a convincing argument for God and creationism in anyway. However the physics explanation uses evidence and actual empirical evidence to justify it's rational claims.

I don't see the fascination with God, it seems like clutching at straws for people scared of death. (that's my belief, so don't rip it :P)
 
I don't see the fascination with God, it seems like clutching at straws for people scared of death. (that's my belief, so don't rip it :P)
We can't just have a different opinion?
I'm a catholic. A catholic who loves to sleep. No really, I probably use to sleep 14 hours a day(literally). If death is one giant darkness of slumber, I would have no problem with that(better than going to hell). I just think there is more to the world than what scientist know or can explain.
 
Well things that people couldn't explain centuries ago that they attriuted to god have actually been explained scientifically. I follow Wittgenstien's view:
"We cannot know beyond the limits of our knowledge", but out limits are ever expanding explaining more and more, for example creationism is being droppped by religious people in favour of God's big bang, isn't that just taking a step back?

I studied seclurisation for a while, call it a personal whim, and it would seem main religions are being replaced with 'post-modern' relgions which are generally things like crystals and yoga etc, which only are classed as religions through an inclusive definition of religion which can technically include football supporting, yeah, Heelas was mad. lol.
 
Well, I don't care what Wittgenstein said. I'm just telling you I'm not a catholic because I'm scared to die. I just know there are things that can't be explained.
 
I find relgion in it's complete form implausible, subscribing to the classic Marxist point of view on the subject myself.

I have yet to hear a convincing argument for God and creationism in anyway. However the physics explanation uses evidence and actual empirical evidence to justify it's rational claims.

I've yet to hear anyone explain where everything came from. Even if the Big Bang created humanity and the earth or whatever...where did that come from? Where did the universe come from? Where did everything else come from?

I don't see the fascination with God, it seems like clutching at straws for people scared of death. (that's my belief, so don't rip it :P)

Funny you would say that after you have just ripped religion.
 

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