Superman Returns POTC2 writer & SR VFX guy explain MAJOR issues with SR writing and editing

[M.O.Steel]

i will agree the writing in POTC is amazing. With the first one especailly, I actaully NOTICED the dialogue, so it was obvious enough that it grabbed my attention. Can't argue with it. His arguements are valid, and also the first guy that responds both have good points. It just depends on what you were looking for from movie and what you got out of it.

 

[Showtime]

Now that you cleared it up for me Buggs, I vaguely remember the bridge scene mentioned. I also think there was a scene where Superman lifts up a train as the wave passes beneath.

I agree with you C. Lee, it would have been another repetative sequence.

 

[SuperDaniel]

Pirates was waaaaay more fun than Superman. Superman is just too realistic. I think thats a problem with this movie. They tried too much to Marvelize Superman and forgot all the fun. The only fun scene was the plane sequence.

 

[buggs0268]

Since there was a bridge scene in STM also.....it's a good thing he left it out of SR....there was enough things lifted from it as it was.

Heh heh heh..yeah. the further I get away from the movie, the more I realize how much was lifted from STM. I don't think people would have had the problem of it being tied to donner if he used music, fortress and Krypton design, and back story and just went on with a new story. The only think I can compare it to is the remake of THE FOG. The original was great, even if it was low budget. It was a ghost story and the ghosts hacked people up. they wanted revenge and to get their gold back. The new one completely lifts a lot lines of dialog and scenes like SR does to STM. And like SR to STM, it should have kicked ass but it just ticks me off. In the original they want revence and hack people up. In this one they knock people with a cane hadnle. In the original they want their gold back. In the new one, he comes back for a character that in the original was a drifter, but in this one she is from the town and turns into a ghosts. And like SR, the new stuff in the Fog remake wants to make you grab the writers and director and go "what the hell were you thinking? Because it obviously wasnt about making a good movie." They took what should have been the original turned up to 10 and turned it down to 2. Both films feel like they raped my childhood.

But at least THE FOG called itself a remake. This called itselg a new film taking you "down the same path" as the other one, or Singer, REMAKE. Just say it. You did a remake. Just admit it.

 

[nogster]

Since there was a bridge scene in STM also.....it's a good thing he left it out of SR....there was enough things lifted from it as it was.

lol.

lifting, spying, crying....
off topic:
in my local sunday paper there was this article written about how real manly men blokes[jocks to u americans]are making a comeback and metrosexuals are fading away. [yeah our sunday mail paper here in australia is really trashy] and the reporter used [rouths[superman as the manly man example!!????WTF.
reporters these days.
she obviously never even saw the movie..lol.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

How come people are complaining about the dog cannibalism scene being in the movie, it was just meant to be a bit of humour and people laughed at it all 3 times i saw SR.

 

[SuperDaniel]

It was still stupid and unecessary...

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

It was still stupid and unecessary...

So no movie should have humour in it? A lot of the humour in POTC 2 was unneccessary, but i bet you liked that.

 

[NateGray]

It's a Bruckheimer film, by that definition alone it can never be a better made movie. He's stuff always panders to the lowest common denominator so people that want less demanding entertainment will always like this stuff.

In your OPINION obviously not the millions and millions of people who watch and enjoy his movies.

And your post was extremely insulting and you should be banned because heaven knows if someone said anyone who liked SR was mentaly ******ed or an air head they would be banned.

So again MOD's how was his post ok but not the person who responded to him?
If you banned someone who responded to his post because they felt its insulting to be called mentaly ******ed then he should be banned as well.
kktnx.

 

[Morg]

All Gods?

yes all gods, says so in are contract t:

 

[Simon]

And I'm sure there are millions more that hate his mass produced dreck and see it for what it is, a pale imitation of other films in that genre that were better written and were about character and story rather than special effects. Was there ever a moment in that film where you truly cared for the characters? The danger they were in and so forth. No, of course not. A half hour episode of Justice League Unlimited had more depth. People are stupid, they elect morons to positions of power, watch bad TV, complain because the phrase "American Way" wasn't added to a line of dialog or think that a character is gay because either the director is or a prominent gay magazine has published an article on the movie and "SHOCK HORROR" a child is born out of wedlock which offends their very high hypocritical moral standards. They also go in droves to watch what they see as non "threatening" entertainment where they don't have to think for a second about the plot. Also one of the biggest complaints I read in this and other forums by people who didn't like the film is that there weren't any fight scenes, for Christ's sake is that all you want out of a film, people punching each others heads in. If you knew anything about Superman you would know that his best stories were never about that, that's the juvenile stupid approach best left to other superheroes, this character is something more, something better.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

And I'm sure there are millions more that hate his mass produced dreck and see it for what it is, a pale imitation of other films in that genre that were better written and were about character and story rather than special effects. Was there ever a moment in that film where you truly cared for the characters? The danger they were in and so forth. No, of course not. A half hour episode of Justice League Unlimited had more depth. People are stupid, they elect morons to positions of power, watch bad TV, complain because the phrase "American Way" wasn't added to a line of dialog or think that a character is gay because either the director is or a prominent gay magazine has published an article on the movie and "SHOCK HORROR" a child is born out of wedlock which offends their very high hypocritical moral standards. They also go in droves to watch what they see as non "threatening" entertainment where they don't have to think for a second about the plot. Also one of the biggest complaints I read in this and other forums by people who didn't like the film is that there weren't any fight scenes, for Christ's sake is that all you want out of a film, people punching each others heads in. If you knew anything about Superman you would know that his best stories were never about that, that's the juvenile stupid approach best left to other superheroes, this character is something more, something better.

I must say i think it is a bit silly that people dont like SR for that reason, i mean not all action has to be fight scene for Christ's sake.

 

[NateGray]

And I'm sure there are millions more that hate his mass produced dreck and see it for what it is, a pale imitation of other films in that genre that were better written and were about character and story rather than special effects. Was there ever a moment in that film where you truly cared for the characters? The danger they were in and so forth. No, of course not. A half hour episode of Justice League Unlimited had more depth. People are stupid, they elect morons to positions of power, watch bad TV, complain because the phrase "American Way" wasn't added to a line of dialog or think that a character is gay because either the director is or a prominent gay magazine has published an article on the movie and "SHOCK HORROR" a child is born out of wedlock which offends their very high hypocritical moral standards. They also go in droves to watch what they see as non "threatening" entertainment where they don't have to think for a second about the plot. Also one of the biggest complaints I read in this and other forums by people who didn't like the film is that there weren't any fight scenes, for Christ's sake is that all you want out of a film, people punching each others heads in. If you knew anything about Superman you would know that his best stories were never about that, that's the juvenile stupid approach best left to other superheroes, this character is something more, something better.

Got it so more insults because in your opinion you think SR was better than POTC2.
Why was it a BO flop if its such a great movie then???
Because all people are stupid as you say? or they are smarter than you and know a good movie from a bad one is what I think.
As for your caring about the characters tripe yes I felt for them and if you didn't perhaps you should re-watch the movie.
Also stop peddling your OPINION as more than it is, nothing but your OPINION not a fact in any way shape or form no matter how hard you try to spin it as such.
And in closing thank goodness you think you know sooo much about superman because if you think SR is so great you obviously do not know superman very well at all which is sad because you sure try to post like you do.

 

[Simon]

Close to 400 million worldwide is a flop? It at least made its' money back and, unfairly that this is Singer's responsibility, the money spent on it before he came on board. If this is one of the factors that makes a good film to you then I can't understand this thought process, why as a viewer, would this question ever enter your mind, how much a movie makes? Do you have a stake in it? Does this truly reflect the quality of the movie because if it does then God that's sad.

 

[NateGray]

Close to 400 million worldwide is a flop? It at least made its' money back and, unfairly that this is Singer's responsibility, the money spent on it before he came on board. If this is one of the factors that makes a good film to you then I can't understand this thought process, why as a viewer, would this question ever enter your mind, how much a movie makes? Do you have a stake in it? Does this truly reflect the quality of the movie because if it does then God that's sad.

Ummm no almost 400 million is not even close to making its money back and yes it is considered a BO flop because it would need over 500 million to make its money back and only made about 400 million.

And yes money is often a good barometer of whether people enjoy a movie or not as people tend to go see movies they like more and reccomend them more as well.

 

[Showtime]

yes all gods, says so in are contract t:

Damn. I have to check my rolodex to see if I even get any special privileges in my contract.

 

[Simon]

So you have this "proof" that it needs at least 500 million from where? Are you an accountant at WB or are you just relying on what you read on the internet or magazines. Why is a good film for YOU determined by the money it makes? So if by this logic you watch a film and absolutely love it and it bombs you will change your mind? I keep on reading about the budget too, it keeps on changing so dramatically also. It's in US dollars, oh no that's Australian dollars, oh but that doesn't include the marketing and so on. It's a joke but people like you lap it up thinking they know the finances of Warner Brothers just because they have a modem.

 

[Lucidious]

I think many people see Superman Returns as mass-produced dreck too and didn't care about the characters.

As for people wanting fighting, maybe POTC2 pushed all the right buttons for entertainment (I don't know I haven't seen it yet) and that's all they want from Superman Returns too. I mean, ultimately this is a comic book superhero movie whose target audience includes the kiddies because it is a flying alien in tights. So it has to have that basic entertainment factor to it. I personally don't go looking for deeper meaning in these type of movies. If it's in there, fine, but don't compromise what the movie basically is and what it has to be.

Trying to make SR more serious and adult is in a way an oxymoron to me. Why try to inject these type of movies with all the seriousness unsuited to this genre? If you try to make Superman and Batman mainly adult entertainment then you will never be as successful with the younger crowd because a lot of them watch these type of movies. I think that's why POTC2 worked better. It's a Disney movie appealing to the kids and family.

I think Bryan was in a situation where he remembered what he liked about Superman the movie as a kid yet he is an adult now so he tried to make it more adult. The result was a weird mix that seemed to aliennate a lot of people.

As for box-office, I like a lot of movies that don't make much money and aren't summer blockbusters. But the BO on SR tells me something because of the type of movie it is and how it should've made more money.

And I'm sure there are millions more that hate his mass produced dreck and see it for what it is, a pale imitation of other films in that genre that were better written and were about character and story rather than special effects. Was there ever a moment in that film where you truly cared for the characters? The danger they were in and so forth. No, of course not. A half hour episode of Justice League Unlimited had more depth. People are stupid, they elect morons to positions of power, watch bad TV, complain because the phrase "American Way" wasn't added to a line of dialog or think that a character is gay because either the director is or a prominent gay magazine has published an article on the movie and "SHOCK HORROR" a child is born out of wedlock which offends their very high hypocritical moral standards. They also go in droves to watch what they see as non "threatening" entertainment where they don't have to think for a second about the plot. Also one of the biggest complaints I read in this and other forums by people who didn't like the film is that there weren't any fight scenes, for Christ's sake is that all you want out of a film, people punching each others heads in. If you knew anything about Superman you would know that his best stories were never about that, that's the juvenile stupid approach best left to other superheroes, this character is something more, something better.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

I think that's the most sensible post in this thread. Kudos to you, sir.

 

[Lucidious]

I think that's the most sensible post in this thread. Kudos to you, sir.

Thanks. I rarely get called sensible!

 

[DogofKrypton]

So you have this "proof" that it needs at least 500 million from where? Are you an accountant at WB or are you just relying on what you read on the internet or magazines. Why is a good film for YOU determined by the money it makes? So if by this logic you watch a film and absolutely love it and it bombs you will change your mind? I keep on reading about the budget too, it keeps on changing so dramatically also. It's in US dollars, oh no that's Australian dollars, oh but that doesn't include the marketing and so on. It's a joke but people like you lap it up thinking they know the finances of Warner Brothers just because they have a modem.

This, from someone who claimed SR "made it's money back" and "$400 million dollars world-wide isn't a flop". YOU tout dollars, then when thrown back at you, dollars don't matter?

That, sir, is called hypocrisy.

 

[NateGray]

So you have this "proof" that it needs at least 500 million from where? Are you an accountant at WB or are you just relying on what you read on the internet or magazines. Why is a good film for YOU determined by the money it makes? So if by this logic you watch a film and absolutely love it and it bombs you will change your mind? I keep on reading about the budget too, it keeps on changing so dramatically also. It's in US dollars, oh no that's Australian dollars, oh but that doesn't include the marketing and so on. It's a joke but people like you lap it up thinking they know the finances of Warner Brothers just because they have a modem.

Wow and yet more insults what is your problem? and better question why haven't you been banned for your inital post????

MOD'S ????

My friend common sense told me that movies only make about half the BO take on US theatre's and only about 30-40% on oversea's BO take.

Those are simple to research if you do not believe me feel free to look them up.

As for the budget, when did I even mention it? I didn't and went with a low production cost and advertising which would be around 250 million.

As for your insults no I do not think that a movie making money affects anyones opinion of whether they like it or not, it does however tell how many people like it and that would be what I said in my previous post that people enjoyed it and reccomended POTC2 more than SR.

Whats sad is you lapping up non facts and trying to spin your opinion as fact truely sad really because its not no matter how much you want people to think POTC2 was not as good as SR it was better in my opinion and many many millions more than the people who thought SR was a better film and you just saying SR was better does not make it fact sorry pal.

 

[C. Lee]

In your OPINION obviously not the millions and millions of people who watch and enjoy his movies.

Right...his opinion....just like you have an opinion....you are allowed to state yours....he is allowed to state his.

And your post was extremely insulting and you should be banned because heaven knows if someone said anyone who liked SR was mentaly ******ed or an air head they would be banned.

He was responding directly to a poster (who's post was deleted) that said the same about him...but in much more cruder language that bypassed the cursing filter. That is why the poster who had his posts deleted was put on "PROBATION"...not banned.

So again MOD's how was his post ok but not the person who responded to him?

Read the above.

If you banned someone who responded to his post because they felt its insulting to be called mentaly ******ed then he should be banned as well.
kktnx.

That poster WAS NOT BANNED....he was put on probation for a series of posts (that have been deleted from the general public's view, but not the moderator's) that bypassed the censor to post many crude curse words and attack others.


Except the fact Nate....there are things that the mods see and know that the average poster doesn't.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Wow and yet more insults what is your problem? and better question why haven't you been banned for your inital post????

MOD'S ????

My friend common sense told me that movies only make about half the BO take on US theatre's and only about 30-40% on oversea's BO take.

Those are simple to research if you do not believe me feel free to look them up.

As for the budget, when did I even mention it? I didn't and went with a low production cost and advertising which would be around 250 million.

As for your insults no I do not think that a movie making money affects anyones opinion of whether they like it or not, it does however tell how many people like it and that would be what I said in my previous post that people enjoyed it and reccomended POTC2 more than SR.

Whats sad is you lapping up non facts and trying to spin your opinion as fact truely sad really because its not no matter how much you want people to think POTC2 was not as good as SR it was better in my opinion and many many millions more than the people who thought SR was a better film and you just saying SR was better does not make it fact sorry pal.

He is not insulting you. And about the box office. That's stupid. People are stupid. They will go watch things like Pirates 2 because it's non stop action and is targeted to the ''kiddies'' - Superman was not. It was a more serious, and very nostalgic film. People think Superman should be an all action film, they didn't get that, so they either did not watch it again or ditched it completely. Movies like Pirates 2 will always get more money.

Great or good movies fail at the BO all the time. Things like STAR WARS EPISODE I - THE PHANTOM MENACE - A HORRIBLE FILM - make gazillions of money. It's just the way it is.

 

[Showtime]

Don't you love the film industry?