Punisher 2004 SUCKED and here's why!

[Slushy]

I used to like the film until my buddy convinced me otherwise. Here's what he said to say:

Yeah, you saw that right. I LIKED THE LUNDGREN VERSION BETTER. The modern Punisher is a joyless, witless, sluggish, poorly casted, moronically written misfire which fails on almost every level. It changes way too much about the Punisher, keeping little from the original comics and just basically making it up as it goes. This is one of those movies where you check your watch every ten minutes. And why does every comic book movie these days have to be an origin story? What superhero on earth has a simpler backstory than the Punisher? Criminals killed his family; he kills criminals. That's it! We don't need hours of setup to explain how he got that way.

Biggest problem: Thomas Jane sucks. According to IMDB, he's been in half a dozen other movies I've seen, and I don't remember him even existing in any of them. In this movie, he's completely inadequate as Frank Castle in just about every way. He's too young, too short, and I never once bought him as anything resembling a Punisher. Jane tries to play him way too much like a normal guy, instead of the remorseless killing machine which Castle is supposed to be. He's a raging alcoholic, he constantly doubts himself, Hell he even seems about to commit suicide at one point. In most of the fight scenes, he spends the majority of the time getting his ass kicked and then limps away half-dead afterwards. What?!! The Punisher should be casually snapping guys' necks and mowing down entire crowds with an M-60, not almost getting killed by just one or two enemies at a time. He's just not mean enough, and it kills the whole movie.

Of course, even if they'd stuck Arnold Schwarzenegger in this movie, the rest of it still would've sucked. Our villain is (sigh) John Travolta as a mobster named Howard Saint, and he's just hammy enough that he's too silly to be real, but too subdued to be funny. And while the rest of the cast contains a lot of people I've really liked at one time or another (Ben Foster, Rebecca Romijn, Laura Harring, Samantha Mathis, Roy Scheider) none of them are doing anything worth seeing here. Writer/director Jonathon Hensleigh has had a career mostly spent making crap, and this might be his stinkiest pile ever.

There are so many problems here I barely know what to mention next. How about the preposterous plot, like that insanely overcomplicated plot to frame some of Travolta's inner circle? Or how Castle hides from his countless mortal enemies by eating in coffee shops, sitting around in parks, and showing up at press conferences? Are we supposed to believe that Travolta would really let Mickey The Snitch work in his house after he got his son killed? And why is the movie so freaking slow? It takes over half an hour to just get to the point where Punisher's family is killed, and the movie is already halfway over before he even slays his first bad guy. Why are there so few action scenes, and why are they all so crummy and boring? Why does the movie play everything so serious for a while, but only start to give us some "humor" after the family is slaughtered? Why do they make such dumbass decisions as changing the comics' ugly girl with crippling loneliness Joan into Rebecca Romijn? Why... aw, forget it, if I keep going I'll be here all night. This is the kind of movie where you groan "aw crap, what are they gonna screw up next?" and then Kevin Nash shows up. And when he provides quite possibly the single best scene in the movie, that's a HUGE problem.

I just hope Punisher: War Zone will make up for this.

Your thoughts? Agree or disagree?

 

[The Major]

Jane was fine. He just needed a better script.

 

[Kable24]

meh, I like the 2004 one better than the 89 version. Both are weak Punisher movies.

 

[SWAT]

I've seen the movie... I don't know. Ten times maby? I know the flaws. But, I still love it. It's not a Punisher movie, it's a Frank Castle movie.

 

[ElToro]

I dont know.Like i said,they hardly talk about Frank Castle in the 04 movie,which iam not going to lie it was an OK movie.But it was a revenge movie.Them killing his family and him getting them back.Like i said it was an ok movie.But iam really looking forward to the new Punisher movie.I believe Ray Stevenson is going to be great.

 

[chamber-music]

I agree with the article

 

[S. Grundy]

1. Read The Punisher: Year One, as the movie was mostly based on that story. In it Frank is depressed, drinking heavily and suicidal. As for the fights, well the fight with the Russian was pretty much as it was in the book. And Harry Heck, well they actually expanded on his character, he lasts about 3 panels in the comic.

2. The casting was pretty great, from Jane to Will Patton and Ben Foster. While Travolta, the best choice for the villain actually seemed to reign it in on this movie, and not ham it up. Rebecca Romijn, well I can only think Marvel wanted her in it, giving her a job where she doesn't have to be naked and blue, same with Travolta, it was most likely the studio wanting a "big name".

3. The whole being "joyless" aspect, I think that's one of the best things about, there's this depressing air throughout the movie. The Punisher shouldn't be ****ing joyful, it should be dark and depressing.

 

[ObakeTora]

I used to like the film until my buddy convinced me otherwise. Here's what he said to say:



Your thoughts? Agree or disagree?

Bravo! You hit the nail right on the head! It felt like watching Mr. Rogers play Punisher.

 

[Joker]

1. Read The Punisher: Year One, as the movie was mostly based on that story. In it Frank is depressed, drinking heavily and suicidal. As for the fights, well the fight with the Russian was pretty much as it was in the book. And Harry Heck, well they actually expanded on his character, he lasts about 3 panels in the comic.

2. The casting was pretty great, from Jane to Will Patton and Ben Foster. While Travolta, the best choice for the villain actually seemed to reign it in on this movie, and not ham it up. Rebecca Romijn, well I can only think Marvel wanted her in it, giving her a job where she doesn't have to be naked and blue, same with Travolta, it was most likely the studio wanting a "big name".

3. The whole being "joyless" aspect, I think that's one of the best things about, there's this depressing air throughout the movie. The Punisher shouldn't be ****ing joyful, it should be dark and depressing.

This guy is right, topic creator is completly wrong. And the rest of you are a bunch of Judases, and fair weather fans. I remember after the 2004 movie came out, most people, even those who disliked the movie, all praised Jane. He was great. The man IS Frank Castle. And of course it was a revenge story, it was his origin, it's how he started, just like in the comics. Even the Florida aspect is straight out of Year One. Maybe you should all read an actual comic book before tearing something down for showing no resemblence to it's source material, cause this movie was incredibly f**king close to a lot of the comics.

 

[Kable24]

This guy is right, topic creator is completly wrong. And the rest of you are a bunch of Judases, and fair weather fans.

I take offense to that. I am not a fair weather fan. Jane killed that role, but the story is weak. It's a slow build which I enjoy and seeing him slowly become the Punisher is what it's all about. it's the ones who say it has nothing to do with the Punisher that obviously never read anything from the past to know who the characters were and what Frank did after his family was killed.

 

[ObakeTora]

This guy is right, topic creator is completly wrong. And the rest of you are a bunch of Judases, and fair weather fans. I remember after the 2004 movie came out, most people, even those who disliked the movie, all praised Jane. He was great. The man IS Frank Castle. And of course it was a revenge story, it was his origin, it's how he started, just like in the comics. Even the Florida aspect is straight out of Year One. Maybe you should all read an actual comic book before tearing something down for showing no resemblence to it's source material, cause this movie was incredibly f**king close to a lot of the comics.

come to my thread man, and suggest some cool moments.

Anyway, I see where you are coming from,. but in all honesty yes I was among the Jane love bandwagon but it was just the fan boy in me. Remember the famous nod Wolverine gave to the camera after defeating a sentinel in X3?

see this is my problem. Year one led to Florida but Marvel Knights (in which the film was originally intended to replicate) did not. I used the sentinel as a reference because the bad writing that involves simply lumping all the best elements of Punisher stories to fill all fan boy wishes is what made this film the piece of vomit stew that it is, coupled to the fact the writer is married to the producer. I suggest , looking at the film through a true artist's eyes, not a fanboy (to anyone defending why most of us, suddenly have contempt for this film) ~ not to single you out Joker...

I loved the film simply because I believed they would get it right this time. They didn't , this film is a joke, and judging from the success of Marvel's Max publications why would they expect fans would want to see year one, assuming that the general public (who has little to no knowledge of Punisher) hasn't read the story. Not to discount Year One, I thought it was a great beginning, however why couldn't they have replicated Year One verbatim instead of combining elements from that great story for the simple sake of artist integrity? I suspect Hensleigh wanted to tell his own story to make a name for himself. Sad, but I firmly believe it.

I have not lost hope for Punisher on film. He may not be on the silver screen for a long time, but we (as punisher fans) will always be there throwing away our precious money to see how Marine Captain Frank Castiglione handles his next foe.

Case in point, how long did it take for Batman to evolve into an intelligent and professionally written film? 18 years? No.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035665/board

I say we continue to push marvel and forget the word compromise. No way in hell do i want to see another campy Punisher film.

If I was a judas would I be *****ing about keeping the nam angle in lieu of the army fbi backstory, and keeping intact the key element that Punisher was a victim of crime who lost his family, not an FBI agent who was partly responsible. Man I hated that film.

 

[S. Grundy]

The whole "why didn't they do a MAX Punisher". While the movie was being made, there was no MAX yet. And Hensleigh was suppose to do an adaptation of Welcome Back, Frank, but even he said that when he went back to read the old comics, he found a lot of stuff that was really good, so it morphed into more of a Year One story, with elements from other stories.

And he was a victim of crime in the movie, he got no justice from the authorities after his family was murdered. I wouldn't say he was responsible in anyway, he didn't pull the trigger.

 

[ObakeTora]

yea but he murdered his brother in the film. I suppose its part of the dangerous business that is law enforcement that something like that could possibly happen, but it doesnt sound as good as serving in an unpopular war, coming home to hippies that hate you for raping babies, having your family murdered in front of you. These elements would have made a far better film, but before somebody chimes in

"theres not enough money to do that."

So put it on the shelf until you do. Argh do I have to quote Dead Presidents again? The film budget started a 10 million, was a period peice and featured Vietnam!!!!

Punisher was a Marine not a cop

He fought in Vietnam not Desert Storm

He is pushing mid 50's

not mid 40's

I don't want a young hip Punisher, if so, set it in the 70's or early 80's. take a cue from the Hughes bros. I suspect some of you may not like that movie because of the ending. Take it for what it is, if they can make a brilliant film like that in 1995. Why can't we get our Punisher!!!???


next time I would like to see the Hughes take on Punisher.

 

[S. Grundy]

Inflation, stuff doesn't cost the same as it did in '95. You would need more money to do a period piece set in New York, the Punisher isn't going to get a $65 million budget to it.

 

[ObakeTora]

or maybe just a talented imaginative film crew.

 

[S. Grundy]

Take Travolta out of the equation then yeah, they could've shot up in Canada. Somehow I doubt, the explosions wouldn't have been as big though (you gotta admit, when there was an explosion, Hensleigh mad it look good).

 

[ObakeTora]

I'll give him that. Explosions were top.

 

[jokerface89]

I agree with the first post.The punisher 04 version was decent it did follow some comic book elements (alot more then the Dolph Lundgren version)and had some good action scenes but at the same time it takes way to long for frank to become the punisher and because of that makes the movie fell more like death wish 6.It seems like Jonathan Hensleigh was more worried about doing his 70s movie homage then he was doing a good punisher movie.

 

[Joker]

yea but he murdered his brother in the film.

How did he pull that off while lying on the ground, pretending to be dead? It was Saints own fault he wound up dead, because he refused to surrender to the FBI agents.

And really, all the other stuff in your post is just fanboyish whining. Even Ennis went and crafted a story that took out the 'Nam element for the prequel comic. And Frank was still a marine, it was before he went to the FBI. Would I love an exact replica of the comics? Hell yes. Is that EVER going to happen with Punisher? No, no it isn't. Hell, I'd kill to see the rights go back to Marvel after Punisher War Zone bombs, and see them do a panel for panel adaptation of Born to start a new series right, but it's never going to happen. The Punisher is a niche character. It's not like Iron Man, where everyone can go see it with their kids and it'll make back a huge budget plus profit. It's a gritty, R rated crime drama. And that just doesnt warrant a big budget, at least not at this point, or anywhere in the near future.

 

[ObakeTora]

How did he pull that off while lying on the ground, pretending to be dead? It was Saints own fault he wound up dead, because he refused to surrender to the FBI agents.

Would I love an exact replica of the comics? Hell yes. Is that EVER going to happen with Punisher? No, no it isn't. Hell, I'd kill to see the rights go back to Marvel after Punisher War Zone bombs

your digging the holes, and don't ask me to pay for a shovel. It's enough that I have to plant the C-4.

and see them do a panel for panel adaptation of Born to start a new series right, but it's never going to happen.

If we ***** enough we will. Thats what got us Hulk vs. punisher.

The Punisher is a niche character. It's not like Iron Man, where everyone can go see it with their kids and it'll make back a huge budget plus profit. It's a gritty, R rated crime drama. And that just doesnt warrant a big budget, at least not at this point, or anywhere in the near future.

I feel you, so when I grad film school make my first 100 mil I'll adapt Intruder. That could play well with the right talent for pg-13. just move the camera away from all the kills. Everybody thinks a decent Pun flick has to be Ichi the Killer. oi!

And really, all the other stuff in your post is just fanboyish whining.

Joker you sure do have a thing for the obvious....

Spoiler

Look who's calling the kettle black!!! Do i need to quote what you said to the ersatz Lexi in the Ask Lexi thread?


I AM A FANBOY AND I WILL WHINE FOR A DECENT PUNISHER FILM DONE RIGHT UNTIL IT FINALLY HAPPENS. I DON'T CARE IF WE WILL BE FLYING CARS, TAMING DRAGONS AND GROWING A FOURTH BREAST IN THE LAB BY THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GIVE ME SOME CHEEZE FOOL!

Just imagine Batman fans having this same conversation in 1940.

 

[Microchip]

I don't think that comic book fans were the same back in the 40s.

Anyways, the movie wasn't bad because it didn't follow the 'source' material, it was bad because it was bad. I can't see anyone who isn't a Punisher fan, or at least a comic book fan liking that movie. It wasn't a success on any level, so who cares if it was JUST like Punisher year one or not. Staying close to source material does not equal a good movie.

 

[S. Grundy]

Yeah, but that's what the majority of people say is the reason it sucks, is because it's not like the comic.

 

[Lazlo Panaflex]

I'm not a big Punisher fan but I felt the movie was okay as a typical revenge theme around it.

We've seen it before in Death Wish, The Exterminator, Death Sentence so why change a good concept, eh?

 

[Joker]

I'm not a big Punisher fan but I felt the movie was okay as a typical revenge theme around it.

We've seen it before in Death Wish, The Exterminator, Death Sentence so why change a good concept, eh?

Which is exactly what a Punisher origin film should be. It starts out as revenge, no matter what Castle tells himself. But he finishes, and feels the need to continue, to fight his never ending, unwinnable war, and that's when he becomes the Punisher. Punisher: War Journal would have showed this, but Lionsgate is run by idiots who decided to make a piece of garbage instead.

 

[SKSpawn]

I loved the 2004 Punisher film. Great soundtack, great emotion, great story, great acting.

Sometimes you people really are crazy and can't recognise something good and true to the comics when you see it.