Question by a DC fan

[WalkingDeadMike]

Jesus, they should've left him married.

This.

 

[shallbecomeabat]

I asked this in an earlier post but it somehow flew under your radar:

I really like Bendis' run on Daredevil. Was the Brubaker run after it cool? Whats up with the stuff that followed after that? Diggle wrote Shadowland, right? How was that? Really like DD right now, because of the similarities with Batman (nat saying that there are many, but a few)

 

[CConn]

Brubaker's first two arcs, The Devil Inside and Out Volumes 1 and 2 are quite honestly my two favorite DD stories ever (collected together here). The first features DD in prison, and the second has him chasing his mysterious accusers through Europe and Brubaker did a phenomenal job capturing an incredible tone and setting for both arcs. The first plays out like a great prison drama, with riots and shankings, etc. the next arc has an almost Hitchcockian sense of intrigue and suspense to it that, again, just sets it apart from a lot of other stories.

After that, the quality drops swiftly, I feel. It's still probably on par with Bendis' run for the most part, but those stories were nowhere near as good as his first two, IMO.

 

[CConn]

Oh, and Dingle's run was okay up until the actual Shadowland mini - it more dealt with the Japanese/mystical side of DD - but then it quickly got awful.

I'd probably suggest just skipping it.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I liked Daredevil consistently from Bendis' run through Diggle's. Shadowland wasn't as good as everything leading up to it from Bendis' run on but it was still an enjoying read. It could have been amazing, but it was just good to me. His closure, Daredevil Reborn, was boring as can be though.

Waid's Daredevil following that has been great as well from what I hear. I dropped it after 7 or 8 issues. The writing was fantastic and it was a fun read but that's now how I prefer my Daredevil. I like the darkness that came before the fun.

He wanted to take him all the way back to the 70's. Bring Gwen back and have him be with her instead of MJ.

No matter what, I will never fault JMS for this because ultimately he was stuck doing Quesada's wishes of erasing the marriage. It was a bad plan from the get go and not on JMS' part. JMS just found a way that was rumored to actually make sense chronologically and all that, instead of the hack job we actually got. I wouldn't have been happy either way, but at least JMS TRIED to make it make sense. What we got was likely far worse.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I like what he did. But then again, technically smart Val was Millar's idea, and his run still sucked.

But I don't like the tone of Hickman's stories at all. He's sucked out all of the bright, comic booky fun that really makes the FF the FF (and is what made Waid's run so damn good).

Plus he dragged out his main storyline WAY too long.

And had way too many underwhelming conclusions to his arcs along the way.

Oh and he's hasn't done a good job maintaining a consistent focus on the entirety of the FF. I get the whole father/son thing he did with Nathaniel, Reed and Frankin, but, again, it went on way too long at the expense of everyone else in the FF.

Deadpool was Rob Liefeld's idea, but it took Joe Kelly to make him awesome. Hickman deserves the lion's share of the credit for making smart Val an actual interesting, charismatic character.

I agree about the rest, though. Hickman's work in general tends to veer into the cerebral a bit too much for my tastes. That's fine for his indie stuff, but if you're writing superheroes, it helps to remember that they're supposed to be fun, first and foremost.

That said, his character work with Reed has been impeccable. I loved how he charted Reed's exploration into and eventual rejection of the Council of Reeds, and I loved his examination of Reed and Ben's friendship in last month's issue.

 

[CConn]

Oh, I wasn't trying to take all of the credit away from it. Like you said, it just took two to tango.

And I also agree about the Reed stuff. Like I said, I would've been really cool with it if he had dedicated 6 or 12 issues to Reed...but his entire run is a bit much.

 

[CConn]

Oh, and I should say, his cerebralness in The Ultimates is phenomenal.

Because, y'know, The Ultimates can kind of be devoid of fun and all and it's okay.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I wouldn't know. I quit that s*** around Millar's second arc and never looked back.

I like what I've read of Hickman's indie work, though. I'm not 100% sure I've understood all of it, but I liked it.

 

[CConn]

Hickman's Ultimates isn't even in the same universe as Millar's Ultimates.

Well, not literally. But they seem very dissimilar.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I've got like 7 actual Avengers titles to choose from at this point. F*** the Ultimates.

 

[WalkingDeadMike]

I've got like 7 actual Avengers titles to choose from at this point. F*** the Ultimates.

How many of them are written by Bendis?

 

[CConn]

But 5 of them are written by Bendis, so they don't count.

 

[WalkingDeadMike]

LOL great minds.

 

[CConn]

How many of them are written by Bendis?

This guy get it.

Seriously though, I'm not trying to push The Ultimates on anyone, but I must say Hickman's actually utilizing the Ultimate universe as it was intended; to tell high concept stories that you literally couldn't tell in regular continuity. A new race of highly evolved humans has been created, [spolier]Washington DC is a hole in the ground,[/spoiler] and Reed Richards is an incredible supervillain.

It's just nice to see a title actually living up to its potential. Unlike Avengers, or New Avengers, or Avengers Assemble.

 

[shallbecomeabat]

Thanks for the suggestions again. Just ordered the Brubaker Daredevil trade CCon recommended and the Gillen Thor one.

What about Ultimate Avengers, since CCon already talks about the Ultimates... is it good? I know you said its mediocre, but how does it compare to the original Ultimates run, storywise? Is it a different beast or the same kinda storytelling? Do I need to read it to later understand Hickmans Ultimates run (which I heard is turning out great)?

 

[CConn]

Well, all of the Ultimates books do take place in the same continuity and all, but The Ultimates and Ultimate Avengers are like night and day thematically. Millar wrote Ultimates 1&2 as if he was writing two giant summer blockbuster movies, with the same kind of semi self-contained storytelling that all movies have.

Ultimate Avengers is much more like a classic ongoing series where you have a series of smaller stories that all lead into one another. Which, again, I didn't really like. It lacks the epic nature of The Ultimates, and the stories and characterizations within them just aren't as good as The Ultimates.

As for Hickman's run..there is other stuff that you'd need to read to fully understand it. However, a lot of those stories kinda suck pretty bad, so I suggest just asking for someone to brief you on the status quo here before you read it.

Oh! One ultimate story I would suggest would be Ultimate Doomsday. It takes place at the same time Ultimate Avengers was happening, but is a much better story...and kind of explains the main villain in Hickman's Ultimates a little more too.

 

[shallbecomeabat]

Thanks, will look into it.

Another question: is the Captain America Lives Omnibus good? I really liked the beginning of Brubakers run, so I thought about ordering the three Omnibuses, but I read a lot of negative comments about the Reborn storyline, which is collected in the Lives Omnibus. How was is?

 

[Anubis]

Stupid, but it got the job done. Stevesie was back, and that's all they really wanted in the end.

 

[CConn]

Yeah, it's not nearly as good as Brubaker's actual Cap series, but it's not offensively bad or something, and if you're getting 20 other really good issues with it, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Reborn was mediocre at best but from what I hear the rest of Bru's run from that era was fantastic. I'd say it's probably worth the buy.

 

[shallbecomeabat]

So, just ordered everything from Brubakers DD run up until the Mark Waid stuff. Looking forward to it. Really started to love DD! Such a cool character!

I wanted to ask you guys, since I've only read Man Without Fear and Born Again from Millers run... how is the rest of it? I am thinking about getting those Miller Janson trades.

 

[WalkingDeadMike]

I loved Miller's run.

I don't know why you skipped the Bendis run though. As much as I hate the way he's been writing the past few years, his DD run was great.

When I think of the quintessential DD runs Miller and Bendis are who I think of.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Yeah, Bendis' run on Daredevil was what made me a fan and his run ends in a bit of a cliffhanger that Brubaker's run starts from. It all reads together as one great plot (and Diggle's after Brubaker's is the same way).

Bendis/Brubaker/Diggle (with Johnston helping) was all one era of Daredevil to me and made me love the character. I guess Smith, Mack, and whoever else there was that wrote the first 25 issues of that volume prior to Bendis also contributed to that but I wasn't as big a fan of those issues (of what I read).

And I've not read any of Miller's Daredevil but plan to eventually.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Waid's run is my favorite DD run. Mainly because I've been able to stick with it for more than a couple of issues. I tried Bendis' run and Brubaker's run, but I quickly lost interest. Maybe I'm allergic to that much doom and gloom.