World Question for the true fans out there!

[tecnowraith]

I have a question for all you true fans out that know the universe backwards and forwards, inside and out. The question, are all transformers split into just factions are there "subspecies" or is a combination and its only factions not "subspecies"?

 

[spidergrant]

well i guess theres the maximals and predicons which are really just the evolved autobots and decepticons

 

[spidergrant]

oh yeah and theres the sharkticons and the junkticons that arent really autobots or decepticons

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Your question is a bit confusing but I'll try to alswer it as best as I can answer.

From G! there were the Junkion's that sided with the Autobots but were not from Cybertron and there were the Sharticon's and Aligatorcon's that belonged to the Quintasons that at times worked with the Decepticons.But nether belonged to any of the Cybertrnion factions.

Beast Machines had a sub-group of Vehi-cons but they were mind-less drones that worked under the control of Megatron.

Armada had a sub-cybertronic race knowen as the Mini-Cons.They were a seprate race that could boost transformers power levels and were forced to work for ether side.

Besides there have been a few characters that have be introduced over the years that did belong to ether side but thats a different thing.

 

[lars573]

Actually what, I think, he's asking is if the Autobots and Decepticons are the same species or not. That is they are the same species with wildly different morales and political ideals, or two divergent evolutionary forms of a species. Although how you can use zoological classification terms on AI robots I'll never know.

In the G1 cartoon the 'bots and 'cons were sub-species I guess. The Autobots were created by the Quintessons, via Vector Sigma, as workers/builders/scientists. The Decepticons were created as war machines.

In the dreamwave G1 continuity they were the same race. Just that the decepticons were a bunch of terrorist Cybertronian rebels who followed Megatron.

RiD isn't clear on the origin of the factions. But Optimus calls the war between them on Cybertron a civil war. Meaing they are the same race.

In the Unicron trilogy continuity I know not the origin of the 'bots and 'cons.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

In the Unicron trilogy continuity I know not the origin of the 'bots and 'cons.

In that show they were all children of Primus [Cybertron] that entered into a civil war.That I belive was caused by Unicron influancing some of his children.Some of that may be coming from the Comic cause I reall didnt follow those show that much.

 

[lars573]

I haven't watched them either.

 

[Bumblebee1983]

To be honest, I was waaaayyyy too young to think in those terms. I just thought the cartoon was cool.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Are the Transformers a "species"

In the G1 cartoon the Decepticons and Autobots shared different origins. While it's unclear exactly how each robot descended from the other (although it has something to do with sparks and a formerly organic Cybertron) the Decepticons were Military hardware and the Autobots were consumer goods. In addition there were other races, including the Junkions and Paradrons (who lived on a peaceful planet).

In the Japanese continuity the race further split with the creation of the Headmasters, microbots and Transectors (Powermasters) who were Autobots who transferred their "souls" into human bodies who controlled lifeless robot bodies.

In the United States the G1 cartoon continued to evolve, producing the Maximals and Predacons.

G1 differed the comic. In the comic, written by Marvel, the Autobots and Decepticons were simply war factions who split off for reasons unclear, presumably resources and power. However, in G2 it was revealed there was indeed a distinct race known as the Cybertronians.

With Dreamwave and IDW it appears the Decepticons and Autobots (even blended with characters from Japanese and G2 continuities) are again simply war factions. Megatron's Decepticons coming mostly from the pits; a gladitorial combat Arena. Dreamwave, however, revealled that the distinction of Autobot and Decepticons are not so simple. The Wreckers, The Mayhem Attack Squad, The Protectobots, the Dynabots and many many other subsections are loosely held together to form those two warring factions.

In Armada (UT), the warring factions are not two races, but rather groups of Transformers who have been subtley influences by Unicron into war. Their main objective is to fight over smaller Transformers known as minicons, later energon and then finally the Cyber planet keys. These Transformers are capable of easily upgrading their forms, which can be seen as a method of evolving/mutating.

RiD definitely made the Decepticons, Autobots and Predacons different species. Aside from the Decepticons, the origins are unknown.

In addition, The Japanese continuity, over the years has pushed heavily the notion of Transformers be able to possess brothers, fathers and possibly mothers in the same way humans do. The US continuity tended to stray away from this, leaning more towards the notion that any relation between two robots was more or less related to general appearance.

 

[spidergrant]

does it explain the junkions and the sharkticons origins

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Are the Transformers a "species"

In the G1 cartoon the Decepticons and Autobots shared different origins. While it's unclear exactly how each robot descended from the other (although it has something to do with sparks and a formerly organic Cybertron) the Decepticons were Military hardware and the Autobots were consumer goods. In addition there were other races, including the Junkions and Paradrons (who lived on a peaceful planet).

In the Japanese continuity the race further split with the creation of the Headmasters, microbots and Transectors (Powermasters) who were Autobots who transferred their "souls" into human bodies who controlled lifeless robot bodies.

In the United States the G1 cartoon continued to evolve, producing the Maximals and Predacons.

G1 differed the comic. In the comic, written by Marvel, the Autobots and Decepticons were simply war factions who split off for reasons unclear, presumably resources and power. However, in G2 it was revealed there was indeed a distinct race known as the Cybertronians.

With Dreamwave and IDW it appears the Decepticons and Autobots (even blended with characters from Japanese and G2 continuities) are again simply war factions. Megatron's Decepticons coming mostly from the pits; a gladitorial combat Arena. Dreamwave, however, revealled that the distinction of Autobot and Decepticons are not so simple. The Wreckers, The Mayhem Attack Squad, The Protectobots, the Dynabots and many many other subsections are loosely held together to form those two warring factions.

In Armada (UT), the warring factions are not two races, but rather groups of Transformers who have been subtley influences by Unicron into war. Their main objective is to fight over smaller Transformers known as minicons, later energon and then finally the Cyber planet keys. These Transformers are capable of easily upgrading their forms, which can be seen as a method of evolving/mutating.

RiD definitely made the Decepticons, Autobots and Predacons different species. Aside from the Decepticons, the origins are unknown.

In addition, The Japanese continuity, over the years has pushed heavily the notion of Transformers be able to possess brothers, fathers and possibly mothers in the same way humans do. The US continuity tended to stray away from this, leaning more towards the notion that any relation between two robots was more or less related to general appearance.

The Paradrons and the Headmasters werent really a different species.They were a TF colony's that left Cybertron at the begining of the war.

does it explain the junkions and the sharkticons origins

That depends on wether your asking if they explained it in the toon or the comic.
In the toon they never stated how the Junkions came to be but the Sharkticons were created by the Quitison as slaves to carry out punisment on those the judged guilty.
In the comic's from Dreamwave the Junkions evolved from what seemed to be lifeless bodys that the Transformers dumped on that planet that they used as a garbage land fill in space.
The Sharkticons were a large army of troops used as ground infiltry by the Quintisons while trying to take over worlds.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

The Paradrons and the Headmasters werent really a different species.They were a TF colony's that left Cybertron at the begining of the war.

Paradrons, maybe not. But the Headmasters , in their absence, developed entirely new traits and abilities making them totally distinct from the rest of the Transformers. That, in our world, would make you a race....in their case most likely a new species since the whole interbreeding thing is unclear.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

does it explain the junkions and the sharkticons origins

One of the Transformers end bumpers explains that the Junkions were a "tribe" of Autobots. However, that's the closest we've come to an official explanation of their existence.

The Sharkticons, as far as I'm concerned, seem to lack the personalities and autonomy of the Transformers...they may just be advanced drones.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Paradrons, maybe not. But the Headmasters , in their absence, developed entirely new traits and abilities making them totally distinct from the rest of the Transformers. That, in our world, would make you a race....in their case most likely a new species since the whole interbreeding thing is unclear.

I guess we could see it as how the Romulans are a different race then the Vulcans then.
I would still say their the same race even with the changes that happened trew evolution.Those changes may have mutated them but the way I see it not a different race.Its like mutants in the marvel universe.Homo-sappien vs Homo-superioer.

 

[spidergrant]

does it ever explain how transformers are made. i think it explained in an episode of beast wars but i cant remember

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

does it ever explain how transformers are made. i think it explained in an episode of beast wars but i cant remember

Does what explain how transformers are made.there have been a few different explaination of how they were made.The original G1 toon explaination was that they were created by the Quintisons as retain goods.

The Marvel Comic's explaination was that they were created by their god Primus as a means to stop the dark god Unicron.With no mention of the Quintasons.

Beast Wars seemed to borrow some of its facts from both continiuties.Some ellements were taken fome the toon and others were taken from the comics....witch is the case with Primus as their creater.

Dreamwave comics kept the Marvel idea of their creation alive by having them created by Primus to fight Unicron but later inslaved and reprogramed by the Quintisons.

There was a book called "The Ultimate Guide" that was written by Simond Furman [a writter that has been writting TF stories since the late 80's] that attemps to retcon all the TF universe's but he didnt really do a good job of it.He left to many unanswered questions.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Its like mutants in the marvel universe.Homo-sappien vs Homo-superioer.

Mutants are a separate species in the MU, like dogs and cats...even though it runs counter to typical biological theory.

does it ever explain how transformers are made. i think it explained in an episode of beast wars but i cant remember

Several attempts at explaining the why (Quintesson work force, Primus' antibodies, etc, etc) have been made. How? Not so much.

"The Search for Alpha Trion" seems to suggest the Transformers have male/female relations similar to that of earthlings, yet does not make any indication either way whether sex and reproduction drive these relationships (as they do on Earth).

It's hard to tell exactly "how they do it". The movie seemed to suggest the process was natural almost, that the robots were simply silicon based organisms or some such thing. However, even there the answer was more or less ambiguous. Sex, and therefore reproduction, is left basically a mystery in the Transformers Universe. I think you'll find, that aside from a few episodes, Arcee and Blackarachnia, Transformers has traditionally tried to remain gender neutral...at least in the toyline.

The most logical answer, as suggested by "Five Faces of Darkness" is that Cybertron is a massive factory thus giving the Transformers the ability to build themselves. I've never been fully satisfied with this answer as it doesn't answer why certain Transformers are fully autonomous and others not. This perhaps is what drove the introduction of the computer "Vector Sigma", a super computer that granted life to the lifeless. But why a computer would implant cliche' personalities onto groups of robots is beyond me?

By the time Beast Wars/Machines finally wrapped up it seemed that whatever "made" the Transformers an allowed them to continually exist, grow and change was a combination of mechanical design and upgrades, organic reproduction and ancestory, and some sort of "higher power" (be it Primus, the Oracle or the Matrix).

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Mutants are a separate species in the MU, like dogs and cats...even though it runs counter to typical biological theory.

Where did you read that from??????I've been reading X-men comics since I was 5 years old [now 36] and every thing that I've read on the topic states that the difference between the 2 are more closily related to the differences in Cormanuion Man and the first Modern Human.I even looked it up at Marvels site and they have mutants listed as an offshoot or a sub species of humans.

Thats a far cry from the differences between cat's and dog's

Heres the link
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Mutants

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Where did you read that from??????

Stan Lee himself, and several other writers have referred to mutants as a "species", not a sub-species, or offshoot. Its biologically incorrect (actually everything in X-Men is biologically incorrect, right down to their view of evolution). In our world mutants would just be "Homo Sapiens" period. Having traits which are phenotypically different from those around you doesn't make you biologically different from the species. The mentally handicapped aren't "Homo inferior". Stan Lee referred to them as "homo superior", which biologically denotes them as a separate species (not a sub-species or offshoot). Marvel.com loves to shore up inconsistencies (it's actually wrong in many instances), but the comic itself rarely, if ever has taken that side. Hell, the latest storyarc is called "Endangered Species".

Mutants and humans share a common ancestor (as does everything technically), but we know Apocalypse appeared long ago and may or may not be the first mutant. Some comics seem to indicate mutants are as old, if not older than homo sapiens.

....No offense dude, but learn to spell. I don't mean to be a jerk, but we have a spell checker now, and some of what you is downright unreadable.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Stan Lee himself, and several other writers have referred to mutants as a "species", not a sub-species, or offshoot. Its biologically incorrect (actually everything in X-Men is biologically incorrect, right down to their view of evolution). In our world mutants would just be "Homo Sapiens" period. Having traits which are phenotypically different from those around you doesn't make you biologically different from the species. The mentally handicapped aren't "Homo inferior". Stan Lee referred to them as "homo superior", which biologically denotes them as a separate species (not a sub-species or offshoot). Marvel.com loves to shore up inconsistencies (it's actually wrong in many instances), but the comic itself rarely, if ever has taken that side. Hell, the latest storyarc is called "Endangered Species".

Mutants and humans share a common ancestor (as does everything technically), but we know Apocalypse appeared long ago and may or may not be the first mutant. Some comics seem to indicate mutants are as old, if not older than homo sapiens.

....No offense dude, but learn to spell. I don't mean to be a jerk, but we have a spell checker now, and some of what you is downright unreadable.

I cant comment on what Stan may or may not have said on the topic........but in reguards to what the writters have said, it seems that different writters have said different things on the topic because in more then one comic of X-men I've read what I've been stateing and even in the Marvel Universe handbooks it states that they are a offshoot of Homo Sapiens.

But its not like it would be the first time that Marvel has contradicted itself is it???????

Any I know my spelling sucks.....but my typing is worce.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

But its not like it would be the first time that Marvel has contradicted itself is it???????

More or less. I groan everytime I hear someone quote X-Movies (or comics) when talking about evolution or biology. Not that either is my forte. X-Men is my favorite comic, but despite my love for it anyone who thinks it's a valid source for understanding evolution has their head way up their ass.

The Mutants ARE a species, that much has been stated in comics that are very much in canon. Mutants, logically, are NOT a species though...and anyone with a high school education can explain to you why they are not. All mutants are really, is people with brown hair...only this time it codes for things like "magnetism" and "weather control". However the comic always insists, without hesitation that they are a species, they can go extinct or they will replace the human populace..all of which is inconsistent with traditional theory.

Any I know my spelling sucks.....but my typing is worce.

I'm not trying to be mean, it just gets hard to read or even understand what you're trying to say sometimes.

 

[spidergrant]

ok guys lets get off xmen and back to transformers but i dont care that much cause xmen is frikin awesome

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

More or less. I groan everytime I hear someone quote X-Movies (or comics) when talking about evolution or biology. Not that either is my forte. X-Men is my favorite comic, but despite my love for it anyone who thinks it's a valid source for understanding evolution has their head way up their ass.

The Mutants ARE a species, that much has been stated in comics that are very much in canon. Mutants, logically, are NOT a species though...and anyone with a high school education can explain to you why they are not. All mutants are really, is people with brown hair...only this time it codes for things like "magnetism" and "weather control". However the comic always insists, without hesitation that they are a species, they can go extinct or they will replace the human populace..all of which is inconsistent with traditional theory.

I'm not trying to be mean, it just gets hard to read or even understand what you're trying to say sometimes.

Both our points have been stated in comics and both are in canon, I guess its just up to the reader's to chose from them self's witch point of view to follow.

 

[spidergrant]

does anyone else not like how heroes kind of copied xmens idea. i mean heroes is still a really cool show but its basicall a more realistic xmen

 

[ShadowBoxing]

does anyone else not like how heroes kind of copied xmens idea. i mean heroes is still a really cool show but its basicall a more realistic xmen

The creators of Heroes are huge, huge X-Men fans. So, no. They've even incorporated some stories in the show that are homages to past X-Men classics like "Days of the Future Past". I don't have a problem with fans homaging a classic comic book.