Race and Gender in Marvel Movies - an all studios discussion

[mace1]

Some other asian superheroes mention from the list/s above.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial] India's new big-budget superhero movie

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15453869




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[FONT=Verdana, Arial][FONT=Verdana, Arial]and

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[FONT=Verdana, Arial]East indian superhero MOVIE.

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]KRRISH 3 - Official Theatrical Trailer (Exclusive)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCCVVgtI5xU







Krrish
Nationality- Indian
Spouse- Priya Mehra

Krrish (character)
Krrish (real name Krishna Mehra)
is a fictional character in the
film series of the same name. He made
his first appearance in the second
film of the series also titled
Krrish. The character was created
by Rakesh Roshan and is portrayed
by Hrithik Roshan, who is set to
reprise the role for the second
time in Krrish 3, the third film
of the franchise.

Powers and abilities
# Krrish possesses superhuman
strength, speed, stamina, endurance,
durability, and longevity.

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]# [/FONT]He was trained into peak physical and mental conditioning.[FONT=Verdana, Arial]


# He has immunity to diseases and viruses,
and has a healing factor.

# Has the ability to run, swim, jump
and leap to a great extent. Krrish
is so fast that he even outran a horse
(this indicates he can at least run
up to 50 miles at the very least).

# His vast leaping ability has not
been defined yet, but if estimated,
then he can leap 1/8 of a mile
(201 meters),[citation needed]
hurdle a twenty-story building
like the Golden Age Superman, or
even more than that.

# Has the ability to communicate
with animals.

# He has special abilities related
to nature, such as climbing, fishing,
running, and jumping.

# He has excellent observational
skills that allow him to learn,
adapt, and improvise whatever he
sees, hears, or reads within a few seconds.

# He possesses a genius-level intellect
and an eidetic memory.

# Master of the martial arts and
hand-to-hand combat.

# He developed telekinesis in Krrish
3 whereas he uses it to be able to
fly at supersonic speeds.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krrish_%28character%29
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[Matt312]

I don't really understand how Shredder being Asian could offend, considering the Turtles themselves are practically Asian-Americans culturally (in-universe) being raised by a Japanese man and or rat.

"I don't really understand how Shredder being Asian could offend"
It doesn't offend it only insults asian americna actors...Thank you Michael Bay for continuing the Hollywood white washing.

 

[TheGoddess]

Lance Gross is whp I think could make a good Luke Cage.

Anyway Crews has said he isn't interested in playing Cage and both he and Johnson being in their forties might make them a little too old for the role.

He should be BP

 

[TheGoddess]

LOL that's a local comic from Rochester.I actually own the first issue which I got in the mid-2000's.The book was pretty bad,but it had good intentions.In the book He has a sidekick name Collard green who's overweight and there's a villain that wears a Jheri Curl.I can't tell if it's tongue in cheek or if it's trying to be straight forward.

The hero is similar to Captain Marvel aka Shazam in that he is a child who can turn into an adult Superhero.It's an odd book.

I almost peed on myself

 

[mace1]

Someone mention before if there was any asians from marvel in other marvel live movies.


Amadeus Cho was in the hulk movie.

Film

In the 2008 film The Incredible Hulk, Martin Starr plays a student at Culver University who allows Bruce Banner access to the campus' computers in exchange for pizza. In the novelization by Peter David, the student is named Amadeus. Amadeus Cho quoted "Whoever you are, you are my new personal hero. Amadeus Cho, at your service, and you couldn’t have come at a better time. Gotta feed the brain," he tells Banner.

Of course it was minor role but he was shown.

 

[Silvermoth]

Amadeus is a cool character though. He deserves more than a cameo

 

[Chance Jackson]

I don't know why this is tough to understand.In Asian countries,they don't take kindly to the only Asian actor being the villain in an American film.That's what probably led Marvel to shy away from a traditional Mandarin.If the film doesn't play well overseas,less $$$= bad.

It's not just an Asian issue.I remember hearing how they couldn't shoot Temple of Doom in India,since the people in charge there were offended in Mola Ram being the film's mustache-twirling villain.Only,they didn't change the script,but wisely chose to film elsewhere.

Because it's inconsistent. Whether faithfulness or sensitivity is more important seems to depend on which ends with casting a white actor.

Hit the nail right on the head

 

[Steamteck]

Because it's inconsistent. Whether faithfulness or sensitivity is more important seems to depend on which ends with casting a white actor.

Not for me . I didn't like all the white actors in Last Airbender. My head would spin and pea soap would shoot out on my head at a white Luke Cage or Blade. Although I liked his performance casting Christopher Lambert as Raiden was kind of stupid.

On the other hand, Daredevil's Black Kingpin was terrific. Race was not a defining element of the character.

Idris Elba on the other hand knocked Heimdal so far out of the ball park he transcended race.

 

[Steamteck]

LOOKS LIKE EAST ASIANS HAVE THIER OWN CREATED SUPERMAN/CAPTAIN MARVEL AND WONDER WOMAN TYPE SUPERHEROES.
They are not waiting on the west to create them or more of them.
East asians are not helpless,they are doing what they need to do.


Here are some.
Darna

I love Darna. Kudos for mentioning Darna. She's been around for decades. She first appeared in 1950

 

[metaphysician]

Amadeus is a cool character though. He deserves more than a cameo

Only if he's not used to make the Hulk into a Mary Sue.

It would also help if the screenwriter remembers that just because Cho thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread, it doesn't mean he actually *is*.

 

[Chance Jackson]

LOOKS LIKE EAST ASIANS HAVE THIER OWN CREATED SUPERMAN/CAPTAIN MARVEL AND WONDER WOMAN TYPE SUPERHEROES.
They are not waiting on the west to create them or more of them.
East asians are not helpless,they are doing what they need to do.


Here are some.
Darna

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darna




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darna_%282005_TV_Series%29


Darna vs. Black Darna 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV_yMY8r7PI

A CAPTAIN MARVEL TYPE SUPERHERO
Captain Barbell

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Barbell




Captain Barbell Fights Putakti
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j06oIH4ICB0













[SIZE=+1]Another wonder woman type east asian superhero from east asia[/SIZE]


ZsaZsa Zaturnnah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zsazsa_Zaturnnah



ZsaZsa Zaturnnah Full Trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrAQ8-WzZ0w

If you want to expand that further you could count the various heroes of Sentei, Anime and Manga but we're not talking about East Asian or South Asian productions we're talking about USA productions

 

[mace1]

I know,but sometimes i hear more asian superheros are needed or where are the really powerful ones.

So that list was to show that there are some and THAT their are more asian superheroes then some folks realize.

Not just in the USA but outside of it as well.

I read sometimes on web, were the superman like or superman power level black superheros?and THERE are not that many black superheroes etc...

Of course there are a few superman power level superheroes and a number of black superheroes.
Even a few created in africa AND europe.

You be amazed that many do not know.
Heck i did not know that there were a number of black superheroes and few superman power level ones etc..until recently when i looked at the black superhero list.

My friend mention icon about a year ago or so,and i had no idea who he was.


Of course i have not kept up with comics until now.

 

[Matt312]

He should be BP

That's a good choice, I also like Tyrese Gibson for BP as well.

 

[Ant-manic]

Not for me . I didn't like all the white actors in Last Airbender. My head would spin and pea soap would shoot out on my head at a white Luke Cage or Blade. Although I liked his performance casting Christopher Lambert as Raiden was kind of stupid.

On the other hand, Daredevil's Black Kingpin was terrific. Race was not a defining element of the character.

whenever someone mentions this, i do a double-take. he might have been perfect as a mentally disabled death row inmate but Michael Clarke Duncan was way too soft to play Wilson Fisk. he looks like that singing bear from Chuck E Cheeses. i just couldn't take him seriously. doesn't mean that a black guy couldn't have pulled off Kingpin. i just don't, personally, think that it should be used in arguments for race swapping.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-e7jdgVo6v7Y/UbUvGwsW7BI/AAAAAAAABxg/QQgCQ9prdLE/s400/brockali.jpg

 

[Loki882]

Yeah no, no he wasn't. His very first scene in the Director's Cut (the proper version) was him killing a guy with his bare hands. And he oozed menace throughout that whole movie. You are literally the ONLY person that I have EVER heard say that MCD was "too soft" to play Kingpin, the only one.

 

[mace1]

What do you guys think about these views?

Why-superhero-animation-beats-live-action


http://voices.yahoo.com/why-superhero-animation-beats-live-action-11780386.html



Superhero Movies: Live Action Vs Animated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHwhZ1MPfjo

 

[Matt312]

Ant-Manic over in the Iron Fist section wrote "i have no dog in this fight. but i can think of one good reason to not make Rand asian. a live-action Shang Chi movie is a possibility. why double up? "Shang Chi. he's the master of kung fu. but he's not likely to show up if Danny is asian."
There is no Shang Chi movie but because of the possibility, we shouldn't let a asian male get a chance at Iron Fist. And we dare not have two Asian male leads that would be a crime. These are the things minorities in America are up against.

 

[DrCosmic]

I actually can understand that sentiment, it's not just they're both Asian, it's that they're both Asian martial artists. I don't know if ALL the named Asian characters in the MCU should be primarily martial artists, or if ALL the martial artist-powered heroes should be Asian.

On reflection though, having Shang Chi as an Asian supporting character for an Asian Iron Fist would add an interesting dynamic to their interaction, and actually highlight their contrast even more.

The most distrubing aspect of the idea, imho, is the idea that we should 'save' our Asian martial artist hero for a Shang Chi movie that won't happen in the forseeable future, if ever.

Yeah no, no he wasn't. His very first scene in the Director's Cut (the proper version) was him killing a guy with his bare hands. And he oozed menace throughout that whole movie. You are literally the ONLY person that I have EVER heard say that MCD was "too soft" to play Kingpin, the only one.

For some reason I thought he was soft when he got his knees bent backwards. I felt like Kingpin would handle that with a bit more dignity. -shrug-

 

[Iron_Stark]

Not for me . I didn't like all the white actors in Last Airbender. My head would spin and pea soap would shoot out on my head at a white Luke Cage or Blade. Although I liked his performance casting Christopher Lambert as Raiden was kind of stupid.

On the other hand, Daredevil's Black Kingpin was terrific. Race was not a defining element of the character.

Idris Elba on the other hand knocked Heimdal so far out of the ball park he transcended race.

So you'd get upset if Luke Cage and Blade were cast by white actors, but are ok with MCD neing cast as Kingpin. Gotcha.

Btw, race is not a defining element for Cage or Blade. I'd actually be in favor of a Latino be cast as Luke Cage, and someone like Jason Stathem be cast as Blade in the reboot.

 

[SuperT]

But there's far more harm in changing a traditionally minority based character Caucasian then it is changing a traditionally Caucasian character into a minority.

There are already a limited amount of top tier, or even second tier, minority superheroes out there to begin with, so to remove one absolutely is terrible. There are plenty of other Caucasian superheroes out there that making one into a minority isn't a big deal.

 

[DrCosmic]

Agreed.

So you'd get upset if Luke Cage and Blade were cast by white actors, but are ok with MCD neing cast as Kingpin. Gotcha.

Btw, race is not a defining element for Cage or Blade. I'd actually be in favor of a Latino be cast as Luke Cage, and someone like Jason Stathem be cast as Blade in the reboot.

Race is a defining element because it's so uncommon for important fictional characters. Changing one of the things that makes a character unique and making it vanilla is pretty much always a bad idea. Also, you do have the idea that the reason there are so few important non white male characters, and why none of them are as important as the most important white male characters is because non white males have been and are marginalized, so further marginalizing non white males is a bad idea socially.

So making Blade or Cage white is just a bad idea both creatively and socially, because life is already isn't unfair, so making it less unfair isn't making it more unfair.

 

[metaphysician]

Or, not all characters are created equal. For some, their race matters, for others, not so much. It just so happens that almost every minority character has their race matter a lot, whereas there are a ton of white characters whose whiteness is basically unimportant.

Now, trying to think of a minority character whose race actually doesn't matter. . . Bishop maybe? Mind, I'd still be against whitewashing him for the "there are few enough minority characters already" argument, which is separate. But as I recall, his ethnicity is fairly unimportant.

 

[mace1]

I think most asian superheroes in marvel comics are in x-men or closely related superhero teams like, New Mutants, X-Force etc...


It's going to be hard to show solo movies of any of them except for the upcoming movie ,bighero6 and that's a team movie, but still all asian and that's animated.

BY THE WAY I have no problem with animated big screen movies.

That's another way to go,that's why i posted the link, animated superhero films vs live action.


Coming up two asian actors will be playing superheroes in the new x-men film.

Booboo Stewart as James Proudstar / Warpath
A mutant with super-strength, near invulnerability and the ability of flight.

Booboo and Fivel Stewart at the Hollywood Premiere of Disney Channel's "Let It Shine" In June 2012.






They could have gotten a native american to play this role,of course like i said above,native americans are of asian origin.



James Proudstar, known first as Thunderbird II and then as Warpath, has been a fictional character in the Marvel Universe since 1984.
An Apache Native American, Proudstar possesses mutant superhuman strength and speed. His powers resemble those of his older brother, the short-lived X-Men member Thunderbird, although Warpath's power-levels are much higher. Warpath is one of the few mutants to retain his powers after the Decimation.






Fan Bingbing as Blink
A mutant with the ability to teleport.

Adan Canto as Sunspot
A mutant with solar-powered super-strength and near invulnerability.

Sunspot is suppose be a brown race person,of course not asian but a another person of color in the upcoming x-men film..









Asians in Comics: Amazing Spider-Man Vs. Asian Captain Universe

Comic: Amazing Spider-Man
Issues: 627-629
Title: You Can’t Stop the Juggernaut
Collected in: Amazing Spider-Man: The Gauntlet 4: Juggernaut (Graphic novel)
Writer: Fred Van Lente Penciler: Michael Gaydos

When Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created The Incredible Hulk in 1962, the character appealed to an audience they didn’t originally anticipate: Asians. Originally, the premise of the Hulk and Bruce Banner was a reflection on the feelings of powerlessness that some Americans felt as the Vietnam War progressed. Bruce Banner, like many of Stan Lee’s characters, was outwardly a normal guy, but when things got out of hand, he went into a rage. This character then struck a chord with Asian readers who suffered from the passive-aggressive strain that runs in their culture. They could identify with a man who held everything in until it felt like he would explode, and when the Hulk entered into it, it became a fantasy about expelling all of the anger that was held within.


(spoilers ahead)






Decades later, in the issues of Amazing Spider-Man 627-629, in a story titled You Can’t Stop The Juggernaut, a premise similar to the Hulk’s was given to an actual Asian-American character by the name of William Nguyen. At first, he’s a perfectly ordinary guy. He is working at an office building were, all of a sudden, Juggernaut (Cain Marko) comes bashing through the wall in one of his famous rampages. Spider-man is close at his heels, trying to subdue the villian, but as the title states clearly, you can’t stop the juggernaut. From that chance encounter, William Nguyen’s life is ruined. In order to repair the wall of the building that Juggernaut destroyed, William’s manager has to fire him due to necessary downsizing. Shortly thereafter, his girlfriend leaves him, and he ends up finding work at a fast food joint. Unable to take it anymore, he jumps off a bridge over the East River when, out of the blue, in midair no less, he’s granted the ability to merge with the Uni-Power, a bizarre offshoot of the Enigma Force that allows ordinary people to merge with a benign cosmic being and become a superhero until the Uni-Power chooses someone else. When he accepts the power, he becomes the new Captain Universe, and has more superpowers than I can easily list.


Are you following me so far? Essentially, the transcendance of William Nguyen into Captain Universe greatly resembles the metamorphosis of Bruce Banner into The Hulk, where both were given powers by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. When William receives his gift, instead of protecting the Earth, he vows revenge on Juggernaut, and even manages to knock him into a coma at the story’s start. Spider-Man then has to intercede to save Juggernaut’s life, and later has to stop Juggernaut from killing William.




The lack of Asians in comics has for a long time upset me, especially since the few Asian superheroes out there tend to be cliche, such as Psylocke, who’s essentially a ninja, to Toyman, a Japanese boy who builds robots. If Bruce Banner/ The Hulk resembled the passive-aggressiveness of some Asians, I always thought it’d be cool to see what it’d be like if an Asian were put in a similar position, but not enough happened with this premise here. By the end of #629, William has lost the Uni-Power after using it for personal ambition rather than for altruistic aims.




I noticed also the story involved a good many Asian stereotypes, such as how William works in an office, and that he describes himself as a “drone,” and how he can’t stand up to his boss when he’s fired for a completely unfair reason. Also, that he’d resort to attempting to commit suicide is again a stereotypical view of the culture.


The lamest part of the You Can’t Stop The Juggernaut story arc involves a subplot concerning tectonic plates that are on the verge of creating an earthquake that would surely decimate a chunk of New York. It’s implied William Nguyen was granted his powers specifically to stop the quake, but, due to his need for revenge, he wastes them battling Juggernaut for three issues. Eventually, fed up with his unresponsiveness, the Uni-Power leaves William and grafts onto Juggernaut, who then burrows into the Earth and straightens out the plates. If William had done something good with his powers at the last minute, I’d be happy, but then it plays out that an actual supervillain is more heroic than a passive-aggressive Asian.




Writer Fred Van Lente very likely had his heart in the right place when he wrote this tale, and it’s nice to see Asians in mainstream comics, even if there are dated stereotypes involved, but I wish more was done here. So many superheroes started out like William, that is, normal people who suddenly get superpowers, then proceed to misuse them for a time before accepting their roles as heroes (everyone from Spider-Man to Wolverine to The Hulk himself share this origin). They didn’t have their powers taken away. They grew into them. It would have been worlds better if William, after overcoming his urge for revenge, flew off to cultivate his new abilities, and maybe returned from time to time to play a better role.
While You Can’t Stop the Juggernaut wasn’t a great comic, it was more interesting than a lot of what’s out there, and the penciling by Michael Gaydos had a refreshingly vintage look. If you’re looking for a better superhero comic featuring an Asian hero, check out old issues of Xombi.


—If you’re looking for a book to read, why not check out my book, The Madness of Art: Short Stories? It contains 8 short stories revolving around the stranger side of the artistic process.

What was your opinion of the Amazing Spider-Man You Can’t Stop The Juggernaut storyline, and how do you feel about the representation of Asians in comics?

http://paneldiscussions.wordpress.c...amazing-spider-man-vs-asian-captain-universe/

 

[The Endless]

That's a good choice, I also like Tyrese Gibson for BP as well.

You're having a ****ing laugh ain't ya?

 

[Matt312]

You're having a ****ing laugh ain't ya?

What?