Rate MAN OF STEEL......once and for all

[Rodrigo90]

I've never heard that. I always assumed that it was intended as the DCFU's big kickoff, regardless of how much they had their future line up planned out at that point. That doesn't excuse the fact that it doesn't stand on its own as a film at all.

Not at all lol
I could swear that it was intended as standalone. It was basically just made because of the Siegel/Shuster battle with WB, so that the rights could be protected.

And if that WAS intended to be just a one off, originally, I think all of us would've spat blood if that was the way it ended.

And honestly, that's the impression the film leaves on me. Beautifully created by Snyder, but poorly and easily written by Goyer, with Nolan just lending some minor assistance. It felt like a rush job. A bad pilot episode of some show.

Honestly, if this is what WB intends with all of the DCFU, using MOS to set the entire tone of that world, God help us.

 

[The Question]

Not at all lol
I could swear that it was intended as standalone. It was basically just made because of the Siegel/Shuster battle with WB, so that the rights could be protected.

And if that WAS intended to be just a one off, originally, I think all of us would've spat blood if that was the way it ended.

And honestly, that's the impression the film leaves on me. Beautifully created by Snyder, but poorly and easily written by Goyer, with Nolan just lending some minor assistance. It felt like a rush job. A bad pilot episode of some show.

Honestly, if this is what WB intends with all of the DCFU, using MOS to set the entire tone of that world, God help us.

I think you're giving Snyder waaaaaaaay too much credit. There are some beautiful shots in the film, sure, but the director has a huge amount of influence over the film's pacing and editing, as well as directing the performances of the actors, and he seriously dropped the ball on those fronts.


As for the standalone, I think the intention was always to make a film universe, but the plan was to make Man of Steel and have it end in an open-ended way so that they could see audience reactions to the film and the film's final box office before deciding on a long term plan for the movie universe. Like, I seriously doubt that they had the Batman team up angle planned before Man of Steel came out.

 

[kguillou]

The one thing I really admired about MoS as opposed to most superhero blockbuster films is that it went for broke in the first installment. The story left a little.to be desired but we got epic epic action sequences. This was the kind of action I was hoping we were gonna get in The Avengers, it felt apocalyptic and that there were real stakes. Alot of superhero films hold back on this aspect with promises that the sequel will be the real battle royale. I respect films that go for broke first and then figure out how to top it later. Which theyre doing now by adding Batman. This is what Green Lantern SHOULDVE done. Go all out.

 

[The Question]

The one thing I really admired about MoS as opposed to most superhero blockbuster films is that it went for broke in the first installment. The story left a little.to be desired but we got epic epic action sequences. This was the kind of action I was hoping we were gonna get in The Avengers, it felt apocalyptic and that there were real stakes. Alot of superhero films hold back on this aspect with promises that the sequel will be the real battle royale. I respect films that go for broke first and then figure out how to top it later. Which theyre doing now by adding Batman. This is what Green Lantern SHOULDVE done. Go all out.

I don't think that's particularly important, to be honest. The story is much more important than "going for broke" with the action sequences. In fact, the story was so weak that I think it made the action sequences a lot worse and made their epic scale detrimental.

Let it be known that I do not care about action in of itself. I only care about action insofar as how it relates to and elevates the story. For me (and ideally for everyone) action in a movie should come from a place of motivation. People would be doing things for reasons and they should be fighting over something that matters and is well defines and the audience should have a clear understanding of what is at stake and what the tension is. Independent of story, I do not give a damn about action. If I want to watch pretty explosions I will go to a fireworks show.

 

[Flint Marko]

I don't think that's particularly important, to be honest. The story is much more important than "going for broke" with the action sequences. In fact, the story was so weak that I think it made the action sequences a lot worse and made their epic scale detrimental.

Let it be known that I do not care about action in of itself. I only care about action insofar as how it relates to and elevates the story. For me (and ideally for everyone) action in a movie should come from a place of motivation. People would be doing things for reasons and they should be fighting over something that matters and is well defines and the audience should have a clear understanding of what is at stake and what the tension is. Independent of story, I do not give a damn about action. If I want to watch pretty explosions I will go to a fireworks show.

A million times yes.
Man of Steel proves that you can have the prettiest action scenes possible but still fail as a film. I was completely bored by the time the third act rolled around because the movie did nothing to invest me in the characters or the story so that when the climax came and punches started flying, I was bored out of my mind.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I think you're giving Snyder waaaaaaaay too much credit. There are some beautiful shots in the film, sure, but the director has a huge amount of influence over the film's pacing and editing, as well as directing the performances of the actors, and he seriously dropped the ball on those fronts.


As for the standalone, I think the intention was always to make a film universe, but the plan was to make Man of Steel and have it end in an open-ended way so that they could see audience reactions to the film and the film's final box office before deciding on a long term plan for the movie universe. Like, I seriously doubt that they had the Batman team up angle planned before Man of Steel came out.

Absolutely. Every director is the captain of their ship.
But I wonder what sort of pressure was placed upon Snyder and his team, and even WB for that matter, to get the film done in time before the lawsuit's nets closed in on them?
I don't think that was ever mentioned. Might have been no factor at all, but perhaps it was?
I'm not sure of the timeline when these processes took place, so I might be way off course.

But if WB thought at the time, that this may be the last Superman movie under their belt, then it lends strength to the rumor that it was intended as a standalone.
I'm not even sure if any of us are aware of any possible rewrites made to the script? I can't find that script anywhere.

I could be a tiny bit lenient if this was a rush job.
But if it wasn't and it was a standone movie, at some point of intention, I'd be even more pissed.
Perhaps rewrites were done at the end because they knew it would get a sequel?

Still, all throughout, it was a sloppy film. Just setting everything up, without any sort decent payoff, within its context of storytelling, never mind waiting for the follow ups, and I feel insulted by it. I really do.

 

[The Question]

Absolutely. Every director is the captain of their ship.
But I wonder what sort of pressure was placed upon Snyder and his team, and even WB for that matter, to get the film done in time before the lawsuit's nets closed in on them?
I don't think that was ever mentioned. Might have been no factor at all, but perhaps it was?
I'm not sure of the timeline when these processes took place, so I might be way off course.

But if WB thought at the time, that this may be the last Superman movie under their belt, then it lends strength to the rumor that it was intended as a standalone.
I'm not even sure if any of us are aware of any possible rewrites made to the script? I can't find that script anywhere.

I could be a tiny bit lenient if this was a rush job.
But if it wasn't and it was a standone movie, at some point of intention, I'd be even more pissed.
Perhaps rewrites were done at the end because they knew it would get a sequel?

Still, all throughout, it was a sloppy film. Just setting everything up, without any sort decent payoff, within its context of storytelling, never mind waiting for the follow ups, and I feel insulted by it. I really do.

1: I doubt Warner Brothers were at all concerned that they might lose the IP on Superman. Copyright law has been tailored to favor large media conglomerates like Warner Brothers for decades. You can thank Disney lobbyists for that.

2: I know that the script was re-written, but I never heard about it being about making the film more or less of a standalone. In what was originally the final draft of the script, Zod got sucked into the Phantom Zone with the rest of his people. Snyder and Goyer decided to rewrite it at the eleventh hour so they could include one final ball numbing fight sequence in addition to the original intended climax of the film. It's why the ending sequence is as uneven and seems to drag on as long as it does.

 

[kguillou]

I don't think that's particularly important, to be honest. The story is much more important than "going for broke" with the action sequences. In fact, the story was so weak that I think it made the action sequences a lot worse and made their epic scale detrimental.

Let it be known that I do not care about action in of itself. I only care about action insofar as how it relates to and elevates the story. For me (and ideally for everyone) action in a movie should come from a place of motivation. People would be doing things for reasons and they should be fighting over something that matters and is well defines and the audience should have a clear understanding of what is at stake and what the tension is. Independent of story, I do not give a damn about action. If I want to watch pretty explosions I will go to a fireworks show.

I mean I agree with what your saying but I think MoS did have all of that. Again I stress that I agree that the story was not focused but there was real tension and real stakes. I absolutely loved the moment where Zod was about to kill Clark's mom and he came at the last minute to save her and told Zod "YOU THINK.YOU CAN THREATEN MY MOTHER?!" Thats something I think anyone who has a mother he or she loves can relate to and root for.

In terms of doing things for a reason, there was a reason for everything. Zod for all his horrible flaws loved Krypton and wanted nothing but to rebuild it even if it meant sacrificing another planet. You could see how heartbroken he was when Clark destroyed the World engine and ruined any chance for Krypton to come back. As a result, Zod is angry, he's enraged and he wants Clark to pay for once again dooming Krypton which is why he lashes out in such a dedtructive way. I dont see how that cant be considered as "action with a purpose."

 

[Rodrigo90]

1: I doubt Warner Brothers were at all concerned that they might lose the IP on Superman. Copyright law has been tailored to favor large media conglomerates like Warner Brothers for decades. You can thank Disney lobbyists for that.

That one little mouse, becoming such a huge problem

2: I know that the script was re-written, but I never heard about it being about making the film more or less of a standalone. In what was originally the final draft of the script, Zod got sucked into the Phantom Zone with the rest of his people. Snyder and Goyer decided to rewrite it at the eleventh hour so they could include one final ball numbing fight sequence in addition to the original intended climax of the film. It's why the ending sequence is as uneven and seems to drag on as long as it does.

I think you've just cracked it in my eyes.

After Zod's death, doesn't the film seem like it's literally ignoring the fact that Superman just killed him? It follows up on with a joke and a rushed end.
Did they keep that intact after the rewrite, or was it just part of it?

That's foul

 

[-Arya-]

The entire third act continues to bother me every time I watch it (not due to the Zod situation, I actually thought that was handled well). Everything leading up to that is quite good. So my rating would be 7-7.5/10 or in between very good and average.

 

[HaplessHenchman]

Just watched it again today and loved it even more than the last time I watched it. Don't really understand the flack that it continues to get, but everyone is entitled to their opinion...

 

[Joeyjojo72]

The "flack" is completely straightforward. You don't have to agree with it to "get" it.

 

[Boy Scout]

Well, he did say everyone was entitled to their opinion.

 

[Flint Marko]

1
2: I know that the script was re-written, but I never heard about it being about making the film more or less of a standalone. In what was originally the final draft of the script, Zod got sucked into the Phantom Zone with the rest of his people. Snyder and Goyer decided to rewrite it at the eleventh hour so they could include one final ball numbing fight sequence in addition to the original intended climax of the film. It's why the ending sequence is as uneven and seems to drag on as long as it does.

I didn't know that, but it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Tempest]

I love this movie.

 

[Human Torch]

And to be honest. I thought a lot of the acting, from such talented actors, was lifeless and bland.

Cavill and Shannon gave it their best in this. Granted Shannon mumbles out a lot of his lines, but at least he put some emotion and spunk into it.

Everybody was just bland, delivering lines that sound like they came from a badly written Shakespeare play.

I agree.I was pretty disappointed with Shannon in the final analysis.His "I WILL FIND HIM!!!" made me think 'Ah!He's going to be awesome when they finally let him off the chain!'......but they never really got there.They gave him some weak stuff like "Where did you learn to fight-ON A FARM?!?"

I mean,for all the weakness that TDKR has,they didn't really fail to show Bane as anything but a bad*** (Well,except for his death,of course.) But,I kept waiting for Zod to get there and when he finally let loose,it really had no teeth at all.

 

[Naked Shia]

I love MOS, but I chose very good, because there is no denying the narrative is flawed. that said, it's an amazing and gorgeous spectacle, full of heart and passion, and i love it even more now that it's the beginning of the dccu.

 

[DA_Champion]

I like the movie, but from the posts in this thread it sounds like some of you have watched it more times than you can count, which I don't get.

I've watched it three times. That's more than I watch most movies, and for now, I'm done.

 

[HaplessHenchman]

The "flack" is completely straightforward. You don't have to agree with it to "get" it.

I said that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just because I also said I didn't understand the negative opinion about the movie is no need to get snippy. People don't have to "get" the opinions of others. It is not a requirement like you make it sound.

By the way, I chose "Very Good" only because there were a couple of instances of cringe-worthy dialogue that could have been better. On the whole though, it was great.

 

[eon001]

I still love this movie. I'm a Marvel fanboy and really couldn't care less about DC in general, but I still get a kick out of this movie. I thought in retrospect I'ld like the movie less, but if anything I probably like it more because I don't spend time dissecting it. Each to his own.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Watching it now and I'm 25 minutes in. I'll give updates of my assessment.

In the first 25 minutes, I'm blown away by the effects.
If Snyder painted pictures the way he shoots on film, I'd buy them.

Now, my criticisms. The constant music in the background...I hate **** like that. It happens a lot nowadays, it's very distracting and takes you out of what the characters are trying to say. It doesn't enhance anything. Is it done because they know that some of the dialogue is not that great or the performances and to distract from Shannon's constant mumbling?
The whole Kryptonian codex thing...is it really that necessary? What's the point of Jor-El infusing it into baby Kal? How does it preserve the Kryptonian race, if there's no way for Superman to personally extract it from himself later on and use it...for whatever reason Jor-El thinks he may use it for? The holographic memory of him never instructs Clark to use it, it just sort of gets forgotten about.They could've done without it because it really doesn't add anything, it's just a plot device to get Zod going after Superman. The whole terraforming plot would've been sufficient enough.

And this Clark/Superman is written very dull. I can understand why the flashbacks are used; to detail the reasons why he's isolated from society and always on the wonder.
But in Batman Begins, the flashbacks were used effectively for the plot of the story. The flashbacks here just used to excuse why the character is dull and they serve no bearing on the main story.

Oh and little Clark's line
"The world's too big, mom" What 5 year old says that and why did he?

 

[Joeyjojo72]

I said that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just because I also said I didn't understand the negative opinion about the movie is no need to get snippy. People don't have to "get" the opinions of others. It is not a requirement like you make it sound.

By the way, I chose "Very Good" only because there were a couple of instances of cringe-worthy dialogue that could have been better. On the whole though, it was great.

It's not a requirement, it's just really really easy. Since you say you don't understand, are you interested in someone explaining it to you? I mean, I understand completely why you and others like/love the film. Wouldn't you appreciate the same kind of understanding?

 

[KangConquers]

Man of Steel is a beautifully looking, edge of your seat production of a filmsy script, with average performances. That's the problem I've always had with rating this movie; in some senses it's a great movie, in others it's terrible.

My biggest problem is the characters don't feel lived in, at all. Change isn't bad, but we should've really gotten to know Lois, Perry White, Ma Kent. I feel like Warner Bros is launching a cinematic universe before they even launch Superman properly.

Tonally, I would preferred something in between what we got and the original Donner films. I'm okay with this being a serious film, but Superman should be inspirational, and leave you with a sense of hope. A film can be uplifting without being silly, and I found Man of Steel was anything but uplifting.

I went with average. This is a 4/5 star film visually, with a 2 star script.

 

[Boy Scout]

I thought the film had a more or less perfect tone. It was serious, but not suffocatingly so. Still, I would gladly welcome more optimism and inspiration in DOJ.

 

[HaplessHenchman]

It's not a requirement, it's just really really easy. Since you say you don't understand, are you interested in someone explaining it to you? I mean, I understand completely why you and others like/love the film. Wouldn't you appreciate the same kind of understanding?

I've read the negative opinions but they are just that, "opinions". Everyone has them and are entitled to them. That doesn't mean I have to understand why others had problems with the pacing, too much action, bad performances, etc...

All those things were fine to me. In my opinion of course

This will be my last post on this. I'm not going to be drawn into a pros and cons discussion about MOS for the 853rd time. I came here, I voted. Gave my reason for voting the way I did. It is done.