Superman Returns Re: The Offical Jason Appreciation Thread

[Visionary]

Superman's morals are screwed up, like the people in an episode of The Maury Polvich Show.

 

[Desk]

Excatly i mean WTF and the fact she doesnt no his clark kent means he slept without telling her his secret and well that doesnt seem very superman like its sort of devious in a way.I mean alright fair enough superman wants to get laid good on you supes but to give one to lois and then not tell her who he his i mean even normal guys let girls in on secrets before the sleep together.

Worse than that, he doesn't even tell her about his dual identity when he returns to Earth and learns that she's the mother of his child.

Lois works everyday alongside a man she doesn't even realise that she slept with, and is the father of her kid. It's nearing the notion of an office sleaze slipping a colleague Rohypnol at a staff party.

Sorry, but Supes is treating Lois like dirt.

 

[ScrnNmsSuck]

Get with it!

Not everyone will think the same as some die hard fans who can not get over Christopher Reeve as Superman or as some of the fans who has their head up their ass so high that they will only accept their Superman & thats it. It is time to move on. Wether you like it or not this is the new Superman Franchise. Whining about it will get you no where

Get with it!

Or stick with the Superboy Show on the CW

 

[HulkofSteel]

I agree with you Buy-Eyes. Superman having a kid out of wedlock doesn't make much sense. Here's why:

Consider his past. His biological parents are always portrayed as husband and wife. Kal-El is portrayed as being well-aware of this.

His earthly parents have always been husband and wife in the comics. Superman was raised by those parents to be a moral individual. What their basis is for that raising makes little difference. Jonathan and Martha raised Clark with the same values they possessed, and in that time of his raising, that most likely would have included marriage as the proper place for a sexual relationship.

Such experiences would be the basis for Superman's morality regarding the appropriate place for sex. With that being his morality, then he would not have had a child out of wedlock and he and Lois would not have had sex in Superman II.

Smallville has also violated this morality. Why has this happened? Blame the current writers of the movies who have succumbed to the "popular" trend of hedonism, do what makes you feel good. And what makes these writers feel good is giving the majority of their fans what they want, rather than what is good for them.

 

[Dope Nose]

1. It my sound old fashion (but hey thats me) But some how superman having a kid out of wed lock (and the rest that goes with that) doesn't sound right.........It doesn't fit with his high level of morality...

only if you consider people having children out of wed lock immoral. if anyone can provide any evidence that children raised by a loving married couple are somehow morally superior/happier/better off compared to children raised by a loving unwed couple I'd love to see it.

regarding his being absent for the first 5 years of Jason's life, it's not as if he knew about the pregancy.

 

[Dope Nose]

Blame the current writers of the movies who have succumbed to the "popular" trend of hedonism, do what makes you feel good. And what makes these writers feel good is giving the majority of their fans what they want, rather than what is good for them.

or blame them for acknowledging that women remaining virgins until their wedding night is an antiquated notion.

 

[Punch]

Excatly i mean WTF and the fact she doesnt no his clark kent means he slept without telling her his secret and well that doesnt seem very superman like its sort of devious in a way.

Looking at the big picture, it's best that Lois doesn't know Superman's ID.
He is protecting her life rather than potentially hurting her feelings. THAT is very "Superman-like"

i mean even normal guys let girls in on secrets before the sleep together.

What world do you live in?

 

[Desk]

or blame them for acknowledging that women remaining virgins until their wedding night is an antiquated notion.

So you think it's ideal that a man should unwittingly father a child, and play no part in its life for its first five years?

I ask because Superman's supposed to be an idealistic character. Someone we are supposed to aspire to be like. Does this fit into that notion?

 

[Dope Nose]

So you think it's ideal that a man should unwittingly father a child, and play no part in its life for its first five years?

I ask because Superman's supposed to be an idealistic character. Someone we are supposed to aspire to be like. Does this fit into that notion?

did he know about the child? do you honestly think he would have left if he had? that he wouldn't have taken an active role?

 

[ScrnNmsSuck]

I ask because Superman's supposed to be an idealistic character. Someone we are supposed to aspire to be like. Does this fit into that notion?

How about we all make mistakes & Supermans mistake was leaving as simple as that & now he will have to make up for it if he is allowed. There are only so many things Superman can be perfect at

 

[skruloos]

So you think it's ideal that a man should unwittingly father a child, and play no part in its life for its first five years?

If he did not know about the child and went off to do something honorable for him and his people? Then yes.

I ask because Superman's supposed to be an idealistic character. Someone we are supposed to aspire to be like. Does this fit into that notion?

Yes. If a guy leaves to find if the people he thought long dead, the people who produced him, had possible traces of them still being alive, then absolutely yes.

 

[Punch]

So you think it's ideal that a man should unwittingly father a child, and play no part in its life for its first five years?

I ask because Superman's supposed to be an idealistic character. Someone we are supposed to aspire to be like. Does this fit into that notion?

what he does unwittingly cannot reflect on his character.

 

[Desk]

did he know about the child? do you honestly think he would have left if he had? that he wouldn't have taken an active role?

Doesn't matter how blameless the character - the situation is far from ideal.

It's ignominious, messy and embarassing, and the fault of the writers for putting him there.

 

[Desk]

what he does unwittingly cannot reflect on his character.

How about someone fakes photos of him in a compromising position with Batman, and the whole DC Universe accepts this as being true?

Superman's blameless, but he's now a laughing stock.

 

[Dope Nose]

Doesn't matter how blameless the character - the situation is far from ideal.

It's ignominious, messy and embarassing, and the fault of the writers for putting him there.

so the character should always be placed in ideal situations? sounds pretty boring to me. I mean, that was the point wasn't? to see how this character would react when placed in a very human situation?

 

[ScrnNmsSuck]

Superman's blameless, but he's now a laughing stock.

You do realize you whining about all of this will get you no where right ?

 

[Dope Nose]

How about someone fakes photos of him in a compromising position with Batman, and the whole DC Universe accepts this as being true?

Superman's blameless, but he's now a laughing stock.

why would they all accept it as true? we can play 'what if' games all you want. what if Superman was a Nazi?

 

[Manhunter]

I'm sorry, but I think you mean "it's the audiences fault for having expectations of a way a character should be portrayed on the basis of almost 70 years of consistent depiction in an array of different mediums"?

Desk, I appreciate you didn't like SR, I'm not about to try and convince you otherwise. But your assessment of Superman's depiction as being consistant is way off base.

Superman has always reflected the times. In the golden age, he's a wise cracking vigilante, not above roughing up women and using lethal force. In the silver age's he's a science fiction foster parent to a generation of children. In the modern age, he's grounded in a world of believability to appease the sensibilities of a more mature, discerning audience, those children of the silver-age, now grown up.

Sure silver-age and modern age Superman are essentially the same morally, but a sharp contrast to Siegel and Shuster's character.

Have you been to superdickery.com? Superman used to be the alien messiah, amusing himself at the lessons in inferiority he often felt nessecary to dole out to the puny humans. Have you read Son of Superman? He didn't know he knocked up Lois before he got captured either. If you were pissed at Routh lifting a k-laced island, don't read IC #7, cause when Superman flies through Krypton's debris field to plunge through the heart of Eldirao, and doesn't die, you are going to **** your pants.

SR isn't "perfect" by any means, but as far as characterization goes, Singer didn't break any rules that haven't been broken already in the comic books.

 

[Desk]

so the character should always be placed in ideal situations?

No, he should be placed in testing, taxing situations which he has to use all of his heroic attributes to overcome.

Making him a permanent absentee father to an illegitimate kid is ridiculously inappropriate and ill-fitting.

 

[coast city]

I find it interesting that this debate seems to be confined to fan-forums like this one. The general public doesn't seem to be outraged by any of this, and I don't think they're laughing at Superman's predicament.

 

[skruloos]

How about someone fakes photos of him in a compromising position with Batman, and the whole DC Universe accepts this as being true?

Superman's blameless, but he's now a laughing stock.

And how is that any different really from every other time that Lex has manipulated the public's perception of the Superman?

And this actually brings up a great point. Let's consider the fact that Lex basically set-up the whole scenario of the astronomers picking up the large chunks of Krypton so that Superman would leave and investigate. So Superman, not knowing Lois is pregnant, does. Sounds like it fits perfectly with what we know of both those characters.

 

[Punch]

How about someone fakes photos of him in a compromising position with Batman, and the whole DC Universe accepts this as being true?

Superman's blameless, but he's now a laughing stock.

whos' laughing at Superman??
you seem to have a problem with the writers for doing their jobs. They set up a morally complex situation that doesn't involve just good and evil.

Yes- Superman got Lois pregnant

No- he did not know he did.

Yes- He should have told her(at least) he was leaving.

Yes- Jason was raised by a mother and father!!! Maybe even a better father than his natural one could ever be.

 

[ScrnNmsSuck]

SR isn't "perfect" by any means, but as far as characterization goes, Singer didn't break any rules that haven't been broken already in the comic books.

No Movie is "perfect" & what rules ? Everyone has their own view of Superman & the bashers like Desk can not accept the fact that People like this Movie & he has nothing better to do then to come here & crap on the Superman Fans that do like this Movie. Desk wether he likes it or not is fighting a loosing battle & he needs to move on & accept it or like I said simply go & enjoy the Superboy Show on the WB

 

[Dope Nose]

Desk, I appreciate you didn't like SR, I'm not about to try and convince you otherwise. But your assessment of Superman's depiction as being consistant is way off base.

Superman has always reflected the times. In the golden age, he's a wise cracking vigilante, not above roughing up women and using lethal force. In the silver age's he's a science fiction foster parent to a generation of children. In the modern age, he's grounded in a world of believability to appease the sensibilities of a more mature, discerning audience, those children of the silver-age, now grown up.

Manhunter is exactly right! case in point, this image from the aforementioned Superdickery.

 

[Manhunter]

And how is that any different really from every other time that Lex has manipulated the public's perception of the Superman?

And this actually brings up a great point. Let's consider the fact that Lex basically set-up the whole scenario of the astronomers picking up the large chunks of Krypton so that Superman would leave and investigate. So Superman, not knowing Lois is pregnant, does. Sounds like it fits perfectly with what we know of both those characters.

You'd have a leg to stand on if Singer addressed this in his movie.

It was sentimental and heartfelt, and I loved the closure, but SR's story (structure) is seriously flawed. So much so that Harris, Dougherty, and Singer should never be allowed to pen a movie again.

Recommened reading my ass.