"Reinforcement" Season 2: Episode 16 Discussion Thread

[Pirate Queen]

Pay very close attention to the Batman Beyond episode "Heroes".
There is a scene where a huge machine falls on Terry. I wish I could find pictures...the resemblance is unmistakable, choreographed exactly off the pages of Spider-man.

There were alot of other Marvel references as well.

Yo.

Spoiler

The whole thing was a big Fantastic Four nod. One of the sadder episodes too, I might add.

 

[Styleshift]

Yo.

Spoiler

The whole thing was a big Fantastic Four nod. One of the sadder episodes too, I might add.

Thank you so much for this!

I agree it was one of the sadder episodes.

 

[Styleshift]

Of course they're not. Don't know how anyone could come up with that theorey. This Doc Ock is evil all the way. The tentacles have zero influence on him. He was having visions of impaling Norman Osborn on his tentacles before he even became Doc Ock.

And I bet he is playing Dr Kafka like a fiddle. Ock is a master manipulator and a con man.

Great point.
Another reason why I believe the incident was staged. At heart Ock was portrayed as evil. I love it. His transformation was done spot on...they developed him really well in this series.

Stillanerd was the one that actually came up with the theory.
I believe he's not ruling out the theory because of the way Weisman writes. Weisman uses the fact that the fans know the story to pull twists against us.

The Big man arc is a great example. The goblin unmasked was another.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Spectacular episode .

It had way more Spidey less Parker, Peter & MJ had a moment & spidey hilarious moments with the Rogue Gallery of villains . Plus the cameo by Cletus Kasady and the escape of Doc Ock (an android version I bet)

 

[LEGO Spidey]

Spectacular episode .

It had way more Spidey less Parker, Peter & MJ had a moment & spidey hilarious moments with the Rogue Gallery of villains . Plus the cameo by Cletus Kasady and the escape of Doc Ock (an android version I bet)

Or Chameleon.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I'd say you're in for a disappointment then.

And I love how Ock can control his tentacles whether they're attached to him or not. It's uber creepy. How he can still feel and sense them like a phantom limb that's been ripped from his body.

Brilliant.

I second that.

 

[Jick]

Spectacular episode .

It had way more Spidey less Parker, Peter & MJ had a moment & spidey hilarious moments with the Rogue Gallery of villains.

"I hate you so much..."
lol. Rhino is always great.

Plus the cameo by Cletus Kasady and the escape of Doc Ock (an android version I bet)

I actually think it's the real one. He probably was orchestrating everything from where he was.

 

[Web-Head408]

I just finished watching it on YT and I gotta say; one of the series best.

I'm pretty certain now that Ock's the MP after watching it.

And Blackie Gaxton! Patch! Where else are you gonna find those two outside the comics? Props to the writers on that. Patch sounded like he had Foswell's voice, too.

 

[Web-Head408]

Of course they're not. Don't know how anyone could come up with that theorey. This Doc Ock is evil all the way. The tentacles have zero influence on him. He was having visions of impaling Norman Osborn on his tentacles before he even became Doc Ock.

And I bet he is playing Dr Kafka like a fiddle. Ock is a master manipulator and a con man.

And for this; look no further than Paul Jenkins second Fusion arc in PPSM: 39-41.

 

[Anwar]

Ouch, I'm surprised Peter wasn't hurt worse after Kraven knocked him off that building. He fell all the way down without anything to slow it!

 

[DOG LIPS]

Great episode, I kind of liked how it was "split" teams.


"Uh huh, bug for a bug."

 

[Ratcrawler]

"Hey, I get it. For you that's clever!"

I felt kind of bad for Doc Kafka when she got blasted. Electro's more of a... reprobate now. Season One, he just wanted a cure. Now he's pretty full on evil. That kind of saddened me because he lost some depth. Much as I love the Sin6, a few of it's members seem to be losing their individual luster. Mostly him and Vulture. Does he still even have it in for Osbourne? I hope the villains see some more development. It feels like some are just riding out what they went through in season 1.

 

[LightningFlash]

He didn't lack depth. If that happened to you and you wanted a cure, but then Doc Ock promised one and now he pretends to be "changed", then of course Electro will be saddened about that and just wants to wreak havoc.

 

[Web-Head408]

I can't believe all the people on YT that are saying "Venom's the Master Planner!"

 

[Styleshift]

"Hey, I get it. For you that's clever!"

I felt kind of bad for Doc Kafka when she got blasted. Electro's more of a... reprobate now. Season One, he just wanted a cure. Now he's pretty full on evil. That kind of saddened me because he lost some depth. Much as I love the Sin6, a few of it's members seem to be losing their individual luster. Mostly him and Vulture. Does he still even have it in for Osbourne? I hope the villains see some more development. It feels like some are just riding out what they went through in season 1.

Weeeeeell I kinda disagree....

Spidey addressed every single one of them differently. Within his quips and combat.

(Let's keep in mind that no single villain has had time on his own out of prison to act alone.)

This was all about banding together to take out Spider-man. Who has embarrassed them all with multiple defeats.

They have been a team since Group Therapy...so it's easy to understand. The only disappointment that I can find is if they decide to disband without a true explanation.

 

[Webhead2006]

well i finally got to see the episode earlier today. Was happy to finally get to watch it myself. Overall i thought it was a pretty great episode. Love that greg loves to mine the comics and bring in such unknown/little known characters like blackie and patch. As for patch he is very well likely going to be revealed to be foswell since i belive greg has stated they are doing something with foswell and patch is his only other identity in the comics. Since they decided to make tombstone be big man. It was also nice to see cassidy in the episode too, since they did have him if they ever choose to go with carnage it will be nice if they keep him carnage one thing i didnt like in the ultimate books making him a monster goo creature. As for the S6 return. I thought it was pretty good, as for going teams of two the MP probably thought it would work out having pairs go to complenment each other. I agree best group has to be sandman and rhino love their characters in the show. Loved how spidey took them all out this time around. As for ock's escape i hope it is all a ruse and he is evil through and through.

 

[Syncos]

I'm not a fan of spidey dealing with the sinister six in any sort of combo.

this ep takes away from the edge the symbiote had in doing it on his own.

spidey should never directly be a challenge for six of them, he should be get them to take each other out or cause conflict between them.

this is the problem with the six, they work better alone because together, they get defeated easily.

kraven managed to give spidey a black eye on his own the week before, now they can barely cause a scratch on him collectively.

Gotta say the best interactions were rhino and sandman, those two are an awesome double team, best part of the fight.

dont dig lion kraven, he got reduced to muscle, he should be the brains of the organisation (or at least field leader).

I disagree. The symbiote took on all six villains at once where as Peter was only fighting them two at a time, and had to basically trick them into defeating themselves. The symbiote loses nothing. It beat them out of sheer force, where as Peter had to use his wits, and probably wouldn't have stood a chance against all 6.

Kraven did well the week before, and if he wasn't such a moron trying to be the "alpha male finishing off the prey" he would have probably done just as well. But he foolishly got himself blasted by Mysterio's trap.

 

[Web-Head408]

Might be looking a little too far into things now; but I think the shape of the head and overcoats look real similar when comparing the two's designs.

 

[E.Brock]

rhino: I hate you....so much

laughed pretty hard when that happened

 

[Styleshift]

rhino: I hate you....so much

laughed pretty hard when that happened

The close up to Kraven's face before he got blown up by the mysterio robot was PRICELESS. t:

 

[Webhead2006]

yea i so love the lines in this show always so great. I am crossing my fingers greg kept master planner ock.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Might be looking a little too far into things now; but I think the shape of the head and overcoats look real similar when comparing the two's designs.

Indeed, I defenitely see the resemblance. I love how they are building up to it.

 

[Dread]

With the second season and the "Master Planner" arc in full swing, Episode 16, "Reinforcements" continues the storyline of the second season with a reunion of the Sinister Six (as well as two new members) and some headway on the Peter/Liz/Gwen subplot. This episode did feature more Spider-Man action than Parker, which is to be expected with over six villains competing for space, and a chance at the web-head, within about 21 minutes.

Spoiler

The plot of "Reinforcements" is actually fairly simple. Spider-Man is scouring the underworld scene as Christmas approaches looking for leads on the whole Master Planner thing, by now realizing that all the technology that Mysterio stole in the pilot is still "in the wind". Elsewhere, the Planner (as well as his tech agent Tinkerer) free the rest of the Sinister Six from prison, liberating Vulture, Rhino, and Sandman from prison while springing Electro from Ravencroft Asylum. Otto Octavious has seemingly returned to his earlier, passive persona and no longer wants any association with "Doctor Octopus", to the disgust of Electro, who once was his staunch ally. Kraven the Hunter (still in his Tiger-Kraven form) was recruited last episode, and Mysterio returns to the dome. Tracing Spider-Man's scent to the Rockefeller Center ice skating rink where Peter is hanging out with his high school chums, the Sinister Six attack.

My one major question was; how will Spider-Man possibly beat the Six considering he needed the symbiote costume's aid to beat them the last time? The answer was, basically, they attacked in waves of two at a time, rather than all six at once. It made sense at times, considering that Sandman and Rhino were frequent collaborators in crime as Marko & O'Hirn, respectively, part of me wondered if it wasn't just convenience. Had the six attacked all at once, Spider-Man probably would have been overwhelmed. The only logical conclusion is that they did not want to risk them all stumbling over each other, especially considering new members like Mysterio & Kraven hadn't worked with the old gang before. Missing from the team was Shocker, although he did show up as a hologram briefly. Perhaps the Master Planner did not want to involve a flunkie who usually worked for Tombstone & Hammerhead? Or because his shocker-gauntlets were exploited by Spider-Man (or at least the symbiote) last time?

Still, in the end splitting the team into tag-teams seemed to work better for Spider-Man, even if he was on the verge of being exhausted by the marathon match. The battles this week were pretty good. Not up to the prime of the series, but certainly better than a lot of action cartoons, especially in Spider-Man's "no punching" past of the 80's and 90's. Spider-Man certainly took a fair share of damage. The bit with his tongue being burned by hot chocolate scalding his tongue and effecting his speech was amusing for a brief period, but thankfully ended before it got too annoying.

The stuff with Peter on the ice rink with the Midtown High crew was pretty good. It cemented the stuff between Liz, Peter, Gwen, and Flash. I especially liked MJ's blunt talk with Peter, snapping her fingers when he gets distracted. What I like about this series, that the movies botched entirely, was that Peter, at least in his high school and early college days, was often distracted by MANY women, not just one eternal love. He's crushed on nearly every attractive girl with a name in the series for some time, and that's dead on. While MJ herself "likes" Peter, she isn't about to stomp on Gwen's heart, and it is good to see a young woman on a TV show who can be aggressive without being a total B****, which is rare. I did like how Gwen was showing some backbone herself this episode, being frustrated that Peter was fawning over Liz despite the fact that she clearly was into Flash more, and still is. Cheerleaders for you. Still, with some many girls surrounding Peter with various feelings for him, some anime fans may feel that without Harry on the cast, it almost feels like TENCHI MUYO, or AH, MY GODDESS, in which the hero is almost surrounded by a "harem".

The villains don't get too much fleshing here; Kraven and Mysterio are newer villains and are still being defined, and Sandman & Rhino got a lot last season. Electro has quickly shifted from misunderstood freak accident villain to all-out villain, but that is probably a case of Ock stroking his ego a bit last season. Out of all of them, Vulture seems the most out in the cold; originally wanting revenge on Norman Osborn, now he just seems to want to get back at Spider-Man. Still, one could see that "revenge on people" is often his motif, and Ben Englund still voices the character well. Mysterio (Xander Berkeley) is still hamming it up, but it works well with Mysterio. On the downside, Tiger-Kraven seriously clashes with all of them in terms of design, and I would prefer he return to his more human appearance.

And of course, the cameo's! Steven Jay Blum voicing Blackie Gaxton, an old 60's era mobster figure who I never imagined popping into a cartoon, as well as Patch, a minor goon. Of course there is Dr. Kafka (Elisa Gabrelli) at Ravencroft with a very small but deliberate Cletus Kassidy cameo.

The ending of the episode puts things into focus, which is ironic as "focusing" was part of the morals of the episode, with the mention of this being "Peter's first Christmas without Ben Parker" with May. It was a touching scene that helps things cool down a little from the fast paced battled of the Master Planner. Especially since the menace still remains at large, replacing Mysterio for a seemingly unwilling Dr. Octopus, and freeing the rest of the team from capture.

I did enjoy the creative ways that Spider-Man utilized his surroundings and brain to beat the Six, from melted rubber for Electro to water for Sandman (and technically Rhino), and even using perfume against Kraven. The dialogue was very crisp, especially with the banter between Sandman (John DiMaggio) and Rhino (Clancy Brown). It is good that the show always mixes Spidey's brains with his powers, allowing him to use both to defeat most enemies. Isn't that how it is supposed to be done with Spider-Man?

While it is interesting that the show has focused so much on Liz Allen, Gwen & MJ are the stronger heroines on the show, and it will be good to see their focus increase in the next few episodes, hopefully. One hopes that Peter at least gets to date Gwen a little before any possible Green Goblin battles atop bridges happen.

And, of course, Josh Keaton continues to show his range and depth in the starring role. As the first voice actor to voice a high school aged Peter Parker since the 60's (all the other cartoons have set Peter in college already), Keaton is really nailing the role and defining himself among the sea of past Spider-Man voice actors, which of course include Rino Romano, Christopher Barnes, Dan Gilvezan, Ted Schwartz, and even Neil Patrick Harris (and Quinton Flynn from the MARVEL: ULTIMATE ALLIANCE game as well as for the "Iron Man Adventure" on Marvel Kids' website). While I won't play a game of "which voice actor is he better than", especially as this series isn't even 26 episodes old yet, but I will say that Josh Keaton is more than a worthy addition to those prior group of Spider-vocalists. The entire voice cast for SS-M deserves a nod, as well as the casting, voice editting, and voice director Jamie Thomason; like Victor Cook, Jamie got experience working on Disney products for some time (such as BUZZ LIGHTYEAR OF STAR COMMAND and some Pooh stuff) before hopping onto comic themed work.

This show seems to be showing no sign of slowing down. There appears to be no sign of a sophmore slump this time around. While not as action packed as the first Sinister Six tango, this was a worthy sequel that continues with the Master Planner storyline.

As for who he is? Of course, Peter MacNicol voices both Octavious and Master Planner, and considering the producers' obvious love for Ditko-era stuff, I can still imagine this being an easy one to guess. Still, they did perform that twist with Green Goblin, as well as Big Man/Tombstone. My guess right now would be that the Otto at Ravencroft was a robotic dummy, or Octavious planned the entire thing and it was all an act. Or, of course, he has developed a split personality and is outright psychopathic; a possibility as Dr. Octopus has been written as having "two sides" to his persona in some past stories. I don't think this is Tombstone again and I don't see Wiesman & Co. inserting a new villain into this role. The Master Planner/"If This Be My Destiny" story is dying to be homaged, and this may be it.

As always, can't wait until next week, as it should be.

 

[Web-Head408]

As always, can't wait until next week, as it should be.

Not next week. There's a Wolverine and The X-Men marathon in its place. The following week is the new episode.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

ANother great writer-up, Dread!