"Destructive Testing" Season 2: Episode 15 Discussion Thread

[The Caped Knight]

i actually did like the six forgotten warriors arc besides the red skull's son as electro.

I love that arc as for Electro being The Red Skull's son. I was able to look past that because he double crossed his father once he became Electro . I did however like The Chameleon being the adopted son of the Red Skull angle . It make sense they both have a Skull for a face .

I also loved Electro mainly because he brought down S.H.I.E.L.D airbase . that was freaking sweet .

 

[Spiderine]

Thanks. Having Morbius rip on Twilight in a faux eastern European accent was fun. I should do a follow-up.



YEAH! I kept forgetting to mention that but you're right. I mean "villain name" introductions have ranged from awesome (Tombstone) to kinda silly (Doc Ock) but this one was more of a "why bother?" Is it cuz he's got a "Kraven" for human flesh? I prefer how in the movie-verse JJJ just gave the bad guys their names for publicity. Makes more sense than a guy bent on proving his greatness to the world calling himself Doctor Octopus. But Kraven? I dunno, I just figured that'd be what sPidey calls him for short.

I didn't really have a problem with Kraven's proclamation. I mean his name is Kraven and he's a hunter. Now Doctor Octopus was silly. He called himself the very name that pissed him off. And the manner in which he said it was kind of funny. I have worlds to conquer so from now on call me Doctor Octopus.

 

[The Joker]

I disagree Seasons 3,4 & 5 had a lot of great moments.

Yeah moments, not episodes. A few great moments in a whole season do not make a good season.

As for The Kingpin connection to the villains . That's the exact same thing TSSM has done with The Big Man (with the exception of The Vulture, Electro, Lizard, & Venom)

Hardly the same at all. You've mentioned half the villains we've had so far who have not been affiliated with him, and that's not including Mysterio and Kraven in this season.

Kingpin was affiliated with practically every villain in some way. They couldn't make a move without him sticking his nose in. And I haven't even mentioned the travesty of bringing in the Hobgoblin before the Green Goblin in the Goblin saga.

And the show had an awful habit of recycling footage, too.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I like to view it like this:

Josh Keaton is the best teenage Spidey; while either Chris Barnes or Rino Romano are the best adult Spidey's.

Agreed, they are all perfect for Spidey. They deliver quips greatly and basically the way they are supposed to.

 

[Anwar]

I love that arc as for Electro being The Red Skull's son. I was able to look past that because he double crossed his father once he became Electro . I did however like The Chameleon being the adopted son of the Red Skull angle . It make sense they both have a Skull for a face .

I also loved Electro mainly because he brought down S.H.I.E.L.D airbase . that was freaking sweet .

I loved that arc for simply showing off how powerful a guy like Electro would really be if he had brains and ambition beyond robbing banks.

 

[Hobgoblin]

And the show had an awful habit of recycling footage, too.

That was by far my biggest complaint with the show. It wasnt just recycled, it was badly recycled. See the scene where Carnage escapes from Ravencroft. You can see Venom smashing through the wall a second before they have Carnage jump through it.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Yeah moments, not episodes. A few great moments in a whole season do not make a good season.

Season 3 (good episodes)
Dr. Strange - team up of Spider-Man and Dr. Strange.

Enter The Green Goblin - The Introduction of The Green Goblin

Framed & The Man Without Fear - Daredevil & Spider-Man team up

The Ultimate Slayer - Alyster Smythe becomes the cyborg ultimate spider-slayer (A great sequel & follow up to Season 1 ("The Spider Slayer " & "The Return Of The Spider Slayers")


Tombstone - Robbie's connection to Tombstone

Venom Returns & Carnage - Venom, War Machine, Carnage & Iron Man

Goblin War! - The Hobgoblin vs. The Green Goblin (Dude that was sweet)

Turning Point - Dude this episode which was the Season 3 finale was beyond good it was wicked . [Norman Osborn/The Green Goblin discovers Peter Parker is Spider-Man, and basically Parker's life goes down hill from their .


Season 4
Guilty - Jigsaw Jameson, aftermath of "Turning Point", Robbie framed by Tombstone .

The Cat & The Black Cat - Felicia Hardy becomes The Black Cat (MEOW !!!!) , The super soldier formula subplot connection to Captain America (A foreshadowing for season 5, when Cap make's his debut)

The Return Of Kraven - Bitter Spider-Man (Well voiced by Christopher Daniel Barnes) , Hot Black Cat , plus The final appearance of Sergei Kravinoff & Mariah Crawford now Calypso .

The Return Of The Green Goblin - Harry becomes GG , The Punisher returns & so does Mary Jane Watson

The Haunting Of Mary Jane Watson - Mysterio returns & Peter reveals to Mary Jane he's Spider-Man


Season 5
The Wedding - The Marriage of Peter Parker & Mary Jane Watson, The Feud between Wilson Fisk & J. Jonah Jameson on Parker's wedding.

The Six Forgotten Warriors arc- (Unclaimed Legacy), (Secrets Of The Six),(The Six Fight Again) & (The Prince Of Heroism) - This was an Incredible arc that touch on so many great things . To name a few 1.- Captain America, 2. Peter Parker's parents revealed to be secret agents , 3.- Introdution of Electro.


The Secret Wars - (Part One: Arrival) , (Part Two: The Gauntlet Of The Red Skull), & (Part Three: Doom) - A re-telling of the comic nuff said...

I Really, Really Hate Clones - Spider-Carnage , The Goblin Duo, The Scarlet Spider , Spider-Men battle & of course Man-Spider's return


Farewell Spider-Man - STAN LEE , UNCLE BEN, SPIDER-CARNAGE . The only thing missing was Peter & MJ reunited to make this a worthy satisfiing conclusion to an amazing series .

Hardly the same at all. You've mentioned half the villains we've had so far who have not been affiliated with him, and that's not including Mysterio and Kraven in this season.

Kingpin was affiliated with practically every villain in some way. They couldn't make a move without him sticking his nose in.

Ok let's review TSSM

Survival Of The Fittest - Flint Marko & Alex O'Hirn are thugs of The Big Man (who later in the season become the super villains known as "The Sandman & "The Rhino")

The Big Man's right and man is "Hammerhead"

The Big Man & Hammerhead hire "The Enforcers" to deal with Spider-Man (One of the member's of the team - Montana will become "The Shocker" later on in the season .)

Adrian Toomes & Otto Octavius are employees of Oscorp which is owned by Norman Osborn who is affiliated with The Big Man in secret .

Adrian Toomes is fired from Oscorp and becomes "The Vulture" to get revenge on Norman Osborn .


Interactions - Max Dillion is transformed into "Electro" by a freak accident @ Curt Conner's lab at ESU .

Natural Selection - Dr. Curt Connors becomes "The Lizard" .


Market Forces - Montana – the Big Man's Enforcer – becomes the stunning Shocker to fulfill his responsibility: eliminating the Spectacular Spider-Man.

Competition - Hammerhead following the orders of The Big Man enlisted the help of Norman Osborn & Otto Octavius in creating a Super-Villain to distract Spider-Man from interfering in his private affairs (organized crime in NYC.) Enter Flint Marko as The Sandman .


The Invisible Hand - Alex O'Hirn become The Rhino thanks to Otto Octavius & Norman Osborn. Spider-Man learns that L.T.L. is The Big Man/"Tombstone" thanks to Rhino, he also learn as long as he continues to fight pity crime, Tombstone is prepeared to continue to make an army of Super Villains to combat him .

Catalysts - "The Green Goblin" (Who obviously is Norman Osborn) tries to force L. Thompson Lincoln (a.k.a. Tombstone) to step down as NYC's Big Man of crime.

Reaction - Doctor Otto Octavius becomes "Doctor Octopus" .

The Uncertainty Principle - The Green Goblin kidnaps Hammerhead to lure Tombstone & Spider-Man into a deadly trap .

Persona - "The Chameleon" , "The Black Cat" , Quentin Beck & Phineas Mason are introduced so is The Black Symboite Spider-Man .


Group Therapy - With help of Electro & Hammerhead (Who supplies Doc Ock his missing arms , The Shocker & The Vulture suit , and recuit the remaing two member of the Enforcers .) The Sinister Six escape Ryker's Island prison seeking revenge against spidey .

Interventions - Black Symbiote Spider-Man seek out Tombstone on his early job offer proposal . After breaking Free from The Symbiote control Peter Parker / Spider-Man tries to destory the symbiote but fails which result's in Eddie Brock becoming "Venom".

Nature Vs Nurture - Begins with Spider-Man (now back in his Red & Blue tights) stoping a robbery that was revealed be orcastrated by thugs hired by Tombstone . Spidey tells Tombstone he's declined from the previous Job Offer he'd accepted and that he's going to bring Tombstone to justice it's only a matter of time . Venom arrives right after spidey leaves to offer his service to the now re-opened job offer . Which now inculdes destorying Spidey . Tombstone accepts and alows Venom "have fun first" .


Ok so a total of 8 episodes in season 1 were centered on The Big Man arc, The Big Man was responsible for the creation of 5 super Villains , most of the vllians were affiliated with The Big Man (with the exception of The Vulture, Electro , The Lizard , The Black Cat, The Chameleon , Quentin Beck & Phineas Mason .)

In Season 2 so far it seems "The Master Planner" is the main Boss replacing The Big Man for the season arc.

Blueprints - Quinten Beck becomes "Mysterio" commiting Tech-thef crimes for "The Tinkerer" & The Master Planner .

Destructive Testing - "Kraven the Hunter" is hired by The Master Planner to hunt and destory Spider-Man .

And I haven't even mentioned the travesty of bringing in the Hobgoblin before the Green Goblin in the Goblin saga.

And the show had an awful habit of recycling footage, too.

It worked prefectly storywise plus it add a great set up to Goblin Wars in Season 3 .

That is true . I agree completely with that point .

 

[varsas]

Ok let's review TSSM

Survival Of The Fittest - Flint Marko & Alex O'Hirn are thugs of The Big Man (who later in the season become the super villains known as "The Sandman & "The Rhino")

...

Ok so a total of 8 episodes in season 1 were centered on The Big Man arc, The Big Man was responsible for the creation of 5 super Villains , most of the vllians were affiliated with The Big Man (with the exception of The Vulture, Electro , The Lizard , The Black Cat, The Chameleon , Quentin Beck & Phineas Mason .)

I'm not sure that Flint Marko & Alex O'Hirn are thugs for The Big Man at the start of the season but as petty criminals they need to give a cut to the crime boss; they work for him directly after Hammerhead bails them out of jail in a later episode.

I'm pretty sure only 3 supervillains are "created" by Big Man: Shocker, Sandman and Rhino.

 

[The Joker]

*Snips Kal-El's post*

Season 3 (good episodes)

I don't know why you listed all those episodes, mate. You just re-enforced my point. I didn't like half of those episodes because they were soiled by Kingpin being the lynchpin behind most of those plots.

And some of the ones you listed were really naff, like the Six Forgotten Warriors, Carnage working for Baron Mordo, and Black Cat's episodes. Oh and the flippin' Kingpin's feuds breaking out at Peter and MJ's WEDDING? BLEH!!!!!

There was a few goodies there, like Green Goblin vs Hobgoblin, even though fatso Kingpin was again involved, Dr Strange's episode, and when Harry becomes the Goblin. But again, that didn't make the seasons good overall.

And regarding TSSM's episodes, with the very few villains linked to the Big Man, can you honestly say the Big Man is even half as much involved in their antics, or the episodes themselves, as Kingpin was in TAS? Of course not.

Jesus, Kingpin was even involved in the symbiote storyline in season one. But season one is still the best, and most awesome of the series.

It worked prefectly storywise plus it add a great set up to Goblin Wars in Season 3

I don't agree at all. It's like putting the cart before the horse. It would have been far more compelling [and fitting] to have the Green Goblin arrive first, and have him try and take down the Kingpin himself, get his feet under the table of the underworld etc, instead of hiring Jason Macendale's Hobgoblin to do it, and then having that dross plot of Felicia Hardy falling in love with Jason.

Then bring in the popular Hobgoblin later, in the form of Roderick Kingsley. He's everyone's fav Hobgoblin. Not Jason.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Then bring in the popular Hobgoblin later, in the form of Roderick Kingsley. He's everyone's fav Hobgoblin. Not Jason.

Agreed, I would have liked to have seen the cunning Hobgoblin but to be fair, Roderick wasnt revealed to be the real Hobgoblin until 1997, well after the animated series began. And people at the time were more familiar with Macendale than Kingsley or Leeds.

On the up side, the way TSSM stays true to the comic book continuity, we will likely see Kingsley as the Hobgoblin before Macendale. I mean, they have included such obscure characters as Donald Mencken and Gulyadkin, Kraven's lion. The writers know their stuff.

 

[Ratcrawler]

I didn't really have a problem with Kraven's proclamation. I mean his name is Kraven and he's a hunter. Now Doctor Octopus was silly. He called himself the very name that pissed him off. And the manner in which he said it was kind of funny. I have worlds to conquer so from now on call me Doctor Octopus.

Thing is, he kept referring to himself as Kravenov (like Mysterio, in the 3rd person) and it was only after he turned into a thundercat that he insisted being called Kraven. My last name's Szumilas. If I turned into monstrous feline, I wouldn't go by "Szumi" I'd call myself "Throat-sPiller" or something badass.

As for Doc Ock, here's how I would have written the scene...

Norman: Otto?

Otto: Oh, so it's NOW it's Otto? Whatever happened to "Doctor Octopus", Norman? Huh? Go ahead. Call me Doctor Octopus for old times sake. I dare you.

 

[CaptainCanada]

I also loved Electro mainly because he brought down S.H.I.E.L.D airbase . that was freaking sweet .

One of my all-time favourite animated moments; that whole arc was a real classic.

In the STAS/SSM debate, the latter has the benefit of a decade-plus advance in animation and fewer stupid S&P restrictions. The original remains a big success, and it made a lot of major innovations in the mythos (such as the definitive Venom, which the movies and SSM have both used). Plus, their classic version of the Kingpin; right up there with Xanatos among the great schemers.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

On the up side, the way TSSM stays true to the comic book continuity, we will likely see Kingsley as the Hobgoblin before Macendale. I mean, they have included such obscure characters as Donald Mencken and Gulyadkin, Kraven's lion. The writers know their stuff.

Indeed, and that's one of the things i'm looking foward to.

 

[Ratcrawler]

Can we start an SSM VS. TAS comparison thread and get back on topic?

 

[ironman29758]

Can we start an SSM VS. TAS comparison thread and get back on topic?

Im on it. 'runs to start SSM VS. TAS comparison thread'

 

[Casius--J]

Back on topic, very good episode I thought. The action really impressed me, they did a fantastic job with it. And the banter between Spidey and Kraven was really good.

Spoiler

I too wasnt very impressed with the mutant kraven either, just didnt seem right to me

All in all 7/10

 

[Webhead2006]

yea many seem to agree they didnt like mutant lion kraven, i do wonder why they decided to go ultimate route for kraven's powers instead of just making him super strong and all that.

 

[Casius--J]

yea many seem to agree they didnt like mutant lion kraven, i do wonder why they decided to go ultimate route for kraven's powers instead of just making him super strong and all that.

I suppose they wanted to create some difference between this series and all the other animated incarnations we've had as Kraven. Like it not we'll always remember the Spectacular version as it was the most different!

 

[Spiderine]

I wonder will Kraven show up again this season since he and Rhino both got away.

 

[Duskbyday]

My review of Destructive Testing:

Spoiler

Destructive Testing​

​

Here is episode two of Season two, and the Master Planner arc. Kraven is here to hunt the Spiderman! This will be a 10/10 already. Or is it….
The beginning is explosive! Kraven hunts down a rhino to cure it, and tames a lion only to find out his mission. We then see Peter and Connors friends now (finally good luck!) and he meets his two new assistants. Miles Warren and Debra with a mean cold shoulder. Kraven then begins to hunt the spider, but after failing once, tries to jump ahead of the competition with Warren’s formula.
Kraven is an interesting villain. Not only has he no superpowers at all, being one of the only ones in spidey’s rogue’s gallery. He also has no vendetta against Peter. Venom blames him for ruining his life, Ock is interested…. In killing him, and so do the others. Kraven and Shocker have no hate for him. They’re doing their jobs. He was voiced and drawn perfectly by Vesbit and Galloway. His wife seemed more human for once. But expressing more of his ego, they go the Ultimate way and turn him into a thunder-cat, puma wannabe. He was lame as a cat and his design was peculiar as one. He’s appearing in the next episode and he is still a monster. Do they plan to keep him like that forever! I hope not, but the guy is nuts in all honesty and as a human he wasn’t amazing at battle. I just hope they balance out his strength as a cat and human form.
Next is Peter out of his costume. For some reason he wasn’t his best. It could have been a cold or something but he wasn’t great as he usually is. Still more on Liz, and we get to see her still having feelings for Flash after going to the hospital after a football game. None of his friends came, weird. Great to see Connors and Pete friends again. Then there was Warren. This was kinda odd. He helps Kraven, but his intentions are good to help people, he has a gun in his pocket and he doesn’t seem scared when a lion is in front of him. A LION!!!
I don’t like Liz Allen much in this series. She’s good in the odd episode or two, but she isn’t great as a main character. Peter still hasn’t talked to Gwen!
The animation like last episode was fantastic. The director is new and got a great fight in this that was smoothly done, with a concrete jungle battle. Very well animated. Spidey has iced webbing which is interesting and if you haven’t seen, characters in the intro have changed.
Overall, this is the worst episode in the series, but it isn’t bad at all. It’s better than most series episodes but it has some weird bits in that reminded me of The Batman. 7-7.5/10

 

[Webhead2006]

Does kraven get mentioned to showing up during gang war or the goblin arcs at all i dont remember from the episode descriptions.

 

[Spiderine]

Kraven did get away right? As far as him showing up I haven't seen any episode descriptions that say he does. I thought maybe he would have been one of the various prisoners in that Goblin arc at the end of the season but like I said I don't think he got caught. Anyways if they do catch him they should put his crazy a$$ in Ravencroft.

 

[Anwar]

I don't know, but I'm starting to think that TSSM's Kraven is supposed to be a fusion of regular Kraven with the Puma. That would explain the mutation.

 

[Webhead2006]

possible or they could always have kraven revert to a more human look at a later time. They could easily say the mutation wasnt permint and all that.

 

[Spiderine]

I don't know, but I'm starting to think that TSSM's Kraven is supposed to be a fusion of regular Kraven with the Puma. That would explain the mutation.

Perhaps or it's just that take on ultimate Kraven.