Revamps

[BrianWilly]

I thought it was pretty asstarded. Aquaman was not one of PAD's success stories.

 

[yenaled]

I thought the Clear was an alright concept - links in witht the Green and the Red.

And to be fair Aquaman was one of PAD's success stories - to keep Aquaman in publication that long is impressive.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There were parts of PAD's series that were kind of lame, like making him more of a Namor clone and effectively having Tempest steal his girl and stuff. But I thought the Clear was kind of neat. It seems DC's abandoned all of that stuff, though. I don't think I've seen Animal Man or Vixen refer to the Red at all in their recent appearances.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Well, the Lady of the Lake just adds to the Arthurian connection, which is fine by me. Maybe they could tie the Secret Sea into the Clear. Anyone remember the Clear? It was an attempt to give Aquaman something similar to Swamp Thing's Green, only it was like this big network of all marine life throughout the universe.

I haven't read those issues in a long time, but I vaguely recall the Clear. Was that idea completely tossed? What was it?

There were parts of PAD's series that were kind of lame, like making him more of a Namor clone and effectively having Tempest steal his girl and stuff. But I thought the Clear was kind of neat. It seems DC's abandoned all of that stuff, though. I don't think I've seen Animal Man or Vixen refer to the Red at all in their recent appearances.

I look at PAD's changes to the character as a progression is his character development. A person will only stay a "happy go lucky" clean cut person for so long before a bunch of crap gets thrown at them.

As to the previous statements: The ideas about Aquaman and the Sea Gods is great and all, but as someone pointed out it makes him look like a male Wonder Woman for Atlantis. I love his Greek Mythology ties, but they are limited and should stay that way. Personally, I'd prefer they go in more depth with the Lady of the Lake because it felt like a good step towards the mystical aspects of his mythos. Anything else tied into the Authrian stuff would be cool too but not heavily required to me.

 

[BrianWilly]

The problem with most of PAD's changes is that, down the line, almost everyone would turn out to do them much, much better than he did. Scruffy badass Orin with hook hand? Morrison did it better. Socials strife and upheavals of Atlantis? Jurgens did it better. Big changes in "Aqualad's" attitude and his relationship with Arthur? Jimenez did it better. Stupid ****ing annoying Koryak and his issues? Arcudi made them go away.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I think Arcudi had the best handle on the water hand Aquaman. I really wish Arcudi had managed to stick around for longer.

 

[Kitsune]

Eeep. .. mispost

 

[Oddzball]

How? His power is pretty effective in a fight. The only joke element, really, is his name, and what's wrong with that?

You're neglecting his imagery. The beach ball that speaks image seriously lessens his effect.

Well, they are a Legion, after all. A large membership is to be expected. Does it cause slightly cumbersome continuity? It can. But I think it can also enrich it, by giving a backdrop for the story that seems real.

No, the Legion started with 3 members. It was a one shot story and Weisinger really didn't believe it had any legs. So the forumula was about the current applicant. By the time anyone took a serious look at the membership they had better than a dozen, many of whom were dubious.

The point is that it reflects the over all nature of your revamp: It's a pointless change that doesn't actually improve on anything in the story, and actually detracts from what made the characters good in the first place. Another point on the same subject is Interface. Brainiac 5 is a great character. Turning him from the super intelligent techno/organic descendant of Brainiac into a black human technopath doesn't improve on the character in any way. Really, it just replaces a perfectly good character with a completely new one.

No, it replaces an embarrasing character with one who at least fits the standard of serious superhero story telling.

 

[Oddzball]

I would actually argue that the League would be the modern equivalent of the Round Table (an argument that has been made before), with Orin serving the role of King Arthur as the backbone who's been there more than anyone besides J'onn and held the team together when it nearly collapsed, J'onn serving the role of Merlin as the mentor and advisor who works behind the scenes, and Superman serving the role of Lancelot of the more practically skilled pretty boy who gets all the glory and kicks a lot of ass.

Wasn't Aquaman the guy who BROKE the JLA and brought in Vibe etc?

 

[The Question]

You're neglecting his imagery. The beach ball that speaks image seriously lessens his effect.






No, the Legion started with 3 members. It was a one shot story and Weisinger really didn't believe it had any legs. So the forumula was about the current applicant. By the time anyone took a serious look at the membership they had better than a dozen, many of whom were dubious.





No, it replaces an embarrasing character with one who at least fits the standard of serious superhero story telling.

I think most of the embarrasing characters you're talking about aren't embarrasing at all. Bouncing Boy is a great character. His name and his look are goofy, but what's wrong with that? He's still an effective Legion member, and more importantly, a well rounded and interesting character. Does serious super hero storytelling have to ignore the idea that there are people who are kind of goofy on the surface, but still highly skilled at and very serious about their jobs?

And let's, for a moment, forget about the "embarasments." What about the others? What's wrong with Brainiac 5 that warrants him being replaced by a completely different character. Or the original three?

Wasn't Aquaman the guy who BROKE the JLA and brought in Vibe etc?

The team split up and he brought it back together as best he could.




...with Vibe. Nobody's perfect.

 

[Oddzball]

I think most of the embarrasing characters you're talking about aren't embarrasing at all. Bouncing Boy is a great character. His name and his look are goofy, but what's wrong with that? He's still an effective Legion member, and more importantly, a well rounded and interesting character. Does serious super hero storytelling have to ignore the idea that there are people who are kind of goofy on the surface, but still highly skilled at and very serious about their jobs?

And let's, for a moment, forget about the "embarasments." What about the others? What's wrong with Brainiac 5 that warrants him being replaced by a completely different character. Or the original three?



The team split up and he brought it back together as best he could.




...with Vibe. Nobody's perfect.

As I recollect it, several senior members were absent and he utilized the by laws to end it and bring in a new team. The suddenly ex members of it were rather surprised to learn they had been booted.