This is a debate forum, and the mods don't mind conversation as long as we are being civil. I always have longer posts have for the 14 years I've been on here. As long as we continue as we are I see no issue with it.
What the mods allow or doesn't is irrelevant when the simple fact is the posts between us are simply getting bloated beyond necessity.
Plus it is not allowing us to get to the heart of the matter. Most important is why we each believe what we do and the evidence we have. I've explained mine, but I still have no understanding of your viewpoint because you haven't actually explained it.
I never indicated I knew exactly what most do think. I can never know for 100% except for what I see on the many fan-sites, YouTube chancels and movie news sites I go to as well as the many folks I interact with in my life. But if you go to almost any YouTube channel it is the main topic of discussion from Jedi Alliance to Collider all of which have about a million views each Jedi Council session usually seem to bring this up. So it's on the minds of a lot of people at least the question and the thought that it may be Luke's daughter. Who is Snoke, is Luke her father etc. It's one of the most talked about things in most podcasts and articles. So I would safely say it's on the minds of many.
No you didn't indicate it - you said it outright and very clearly.
"Funny enough 99% of people I talk to think it's pretty obvious it is Luke's daughter. Most the audience is going into it thinking that already."
That is not most of the people you know/have spoken to are "going into it thinking that already", this is you saying "Most the audience (across the whole world) is going into it thinking that already".
How do you know Daisy told that story because she was tired of being asked the question? And why would she be held back by Disney if there was not a secret to it. Yes it's not harming anything but it would not harm anything the other way as well especially if it ends up being an absolutely "nothing really interesting about her parents" ordeal that could have a backfire to many upset that it teased it in TFA and did not conclude it elsewhere.
This is one of those parts that you have not read properly. I never anything about Ridley being tired of a question or fed up or bored, etc.
You asked why she would she would tell people that she was told who her parents are at the very start if they are ultimately of no relevance. I replied saying she gets asked the question a lot over and over so of course she is going to bring up that she knows.
I'd also like to point out that I was not aware that Ridley has said she knows who the parents are. It was you who brought that up and I actually don't know what exact words Ridley has used. I'm simply going by the facts she gets asked all the time so that explains why she says she knows. From what I have read of Ridley's interviews it seemed clear to me that she was of the opinion that her parents identity is not that big a deal. There is a specific interview I will mentioned earlier that seemed to suggest whatever Ridley knows about her parents is based on her own interpretation. Hence, why finding out she has know from the start is a surprise.
Also, as I said earlier, being told who the parents are does not mean Ridley knows names or what became of them. Perhaps Abrams simply told what kind of people they were and why they abandoned her so as to help develop her character. Maybe the reason that we are not being told is simply that we do not need to know everything and having a little mystery makes Rey more appealing. Abrams has form for keeping mysteries alive.
That's your interpenetration of Maz's scene, and I disagree that it's so cut and dry. Rarely is anything in the Star Wars universe so. You can see it that way but I would say it's too vague of a piece of dialogue to go "That settles that!"
Of course that is my opinion and that it is "cut and dry" for me. Saying this is not a worthwhile response. It is no better than a "I know I am but what are you?"
Like you said above. This is a debate.Or least it is supposed. You don't reply with "well that is your opinion". You have to tell e why you think I'm wrong and why you developed your opinion and the hints you mentioned so long ago.
You keep saying the film makes it clear. So most people asking this question are a bunch of dolts? That just did not get that scene?
Another part where you are claiming I said something when it actually never happened. I never implied, said or thought of people as being stupid for hold this opinion.
Putting words in my mouth is only going to cause bad feeling and start an argument. I have no interest in that. I do not believe you are doing this intentionally but that it is the result of our posts being just too long.
You keep saying Daisy said it seemed obvious to her, and honestly it's because she knew who it was to begin with. Just because it was obvious to her does not mean that it is as clearly stated in TFA. Why would they tell her off screen then and not allow her to say who it is. If it really has no bearing like yous aid, and really is not hurting it one way or the other, the opposite is true, why would she not just say "Yeah my parents are random person A and B. they are dead" If there is nothing to hide and it's so cut and dry, I don't think they would even try to walk away from the question. Daisy is still not giving any straight answers. If it was as simple as you put she would have no reason one way or the other to be so secretive about it.
Where have I kept saying something was obvious to Daisy Ridley?
I posted an extract where she used the word "obvious" herself.
Once again, the posts are too long and you are clearly not reading them.
And I did not mean the "I am your father" thing literally either. However, there is still ways to make the main character have a connection to someone else important int he story through he familial way and not have it just be the same. Again to me it's a very vague concept. I just think that if she is his daughter there is not the massive "out of left field" surprise aspect. And again I'm just spit-balling but hell Rey may know her dad is Luke by the time she climbed up the hill, Leia could have told her, or whatever.
You posted "And yeah if you have a terrible writer that just uses a quote like "I am your father" that is stupid." This to me suggested that you believed I was saying they'd actually use the line. This seems to be a moment where I have misread your intent. Again a result of our Hutt size posts.
I wholeheartedly disagree with the rest of that paragraph. People don't need to be blood to a family relationship. And Rey is not going to be told something like that off screen. It would be a distraction with people wondering why'd they didn't see it happen. etc.
I agree that it's irrelevant that Ben is evil, and he may be the continuation of the Skywalker bloodline. And maybe she is just talking about Ben...but you sure have this "I know for a fact" attitude,We just don't know which is why I figured we were speculating back and forth our views. Which is why I had to point out you have not seen the film because some aspects of your post become so dismissive of speculative discussion we might as well not even have it if you are just going to flat out dismiss it and say "You don't know that 100% of the folks think that way. And this scene clearly indicates it's this etc." If that is not your intent that I apologize.
There is no "may" about it. Whether you believe Ben/Kylo is the only one or not, there is no disputing or doubt that he the continuation of the Skywalker bloodline. IF Rey were also a Skywalker, it would not change that. There would simply be too of them.
There is no such negative attitude from me. Please don't further bloat the conversation with unnecessary amateur psychology.
It is simply clear that Kylo Ren is one of the Skywalkers that Kennedy is talking about. It appears that some people are overlooking the obvious and I don't just mean the "Rey is Skywalker" camp. I've also seen and spoken to a view who disagree with that and have tried to claim that Kennedy is saying it is the Skywalker story because Luke and Leia are still in it, or because Rey will be like a daughter or will take the name like a title, something like Caesar.
They are always taken aback and left bewildered when someone points out to them Kylo is also of the Skywalker lineage.
I think you should look at a lot of my older posts because I'm not 100% convinced that she is a Skywalker, I honestly will take it as it comes along and judge it from there. You ask what heavy hints? I think the Skywalker lightsaber calling to her is a big indication, Maz even says "It was Luke's and his father's before him and now it calls to YOU." In Trailer #2 they use the old unused part of the voice over of Luke from ROTJ saying "The Force is strong in my FAMILY. I have it. My sister has it. You have that gift to" Which it shows Rey in that shot and is clearly talking about the new main character. Hinting at a pass off.
Not if your past post are as long as these ones. :P.
Now we are getting somewhere. Yes, that could indeed indicate that she is a descendant, however, the way Maz says , with what I would describe as a sense of wonder, makes clear to me she is saying Rey is the Force is telling them that Rey has the same potential.
Now you make some interesting points to, about Maz's castle scenes. And I can't fully dismiss them either. It may be pointing to that as well that her parents are gone and that's it. But I think it's clearly going to have to do with her parents, and it's going to be a big part of the story. So that's why the mystery is still surrounding this question. Not just who...but why did they leave her there.
Sometimes a mystery is has no resolution. Maybe the intent is to focus on the fact that Rey was alone and lost, and they aren't telling us why because that isn't the point.
Maybe Kenobi would be irrelevant, unless his story is not done yet. Especially since (I wont' post them here) of all the MSW rumors of some of the dream sequences and Force backs. Maybe there is more connection to the PT era then we know. Again, it's just a thought of mine that they may be able to find a way to bring more relevance to Kenobi. But honestly as I said before I highly doubt it is the case. Just a thought that has crossed through my mind before.
I appreciate you not posting those rumour details. I want to avoid spoilers and once Celebration hits I'll be stopping my visits here. I don't like that website and do not understand people who would go out of their way to spoil the franchise for themselves. More than that they could ruin it for others because in this day and age once the spoilers start it isn't a case of "don't look if you don't want to know" anymore. The leaks get everywhere.
Worse again is the people who are the source of leaks. They sign contracts and make promises and then break their word. Pathetic.
Now you say that her past does not matter. Now we may disagree on who her parents are...but I will bet a lot of Republic Credits that yes her backstory is going to be key to the future films. Her past is not just gone. It's clearly hinted at for a reason in the Forceback. Even JJ said this:
I think it's clear that her past has huge ramifications for the story. Is her parents Luke? I have no idea. I feel that some of the scenes hint towards that, but then there are other times where I think differently. Again we are speculating, and again why I had to say...neither of us have seen the film yet so I can't say with 100% certainty but from JJ's quote I would say that there is more to her past regardless of parentage.
So the question of where she comes from I think is very relevant. And even JJ seems to think so. And hence why many are still asking the questions about it.
Her past more than just hinted at. They show us clearly what happened to her (just not the why). Her backstory is relevant how she became the person she is. However, the "whomever" that she is waiting waiting is history now. "They are never coming back".
Abrams is a master of mystery, misdirection and secrets. Not just in his stories, but also in the PR. What you quoted above about the writer said he "backtracked " - he may have but I wouldn't be surprise if he "misspoke" on purpose. And he what he said can be interpreted many ways.
So one last question for you. If the film does not match up to what you think you will dismiss Rian's work? So if Luke does become her dad, and it is very relevant to the story will this make you hate the film out of your predisposition to already dismissing that notion and deciding you don't like that idea?
No, because I'm not a deranged crazy person. IF it were to happen (which it won't
) I would just accept it because that would just the way it is. Same with Young Han Solo. I simply thought the rumours was fan dreaming, that Han's should be an enigma, that you recast the role blah blah, etc., but they did and they are so nothing to be done except to get into the spirit and welcome it.
And if I need to clarify I have no idea I bounce around a lot on my thoughts of her parentage. I've read on TFN and here some good arguments for many thoughts of who her parents are. But I think one thing I will stand behind her past and who her parents were are important to the future story. I'm not sure there is as much significance from the one line from Maz that for all we know has no idea who her parents are either. She's just generally speaking "wise talk" saying move forward. The whole movie has Rey not wanting to leave Jakku, so I feel her response is more in general that your life is going no where there, and you need to move forward to meet your destiny, but not necessarily that her thoughts on her parents are worthless especially since JJ even says she's always thinking about who her parents are. It must have some relevance yes?
How can Maz's words be less significant that characters who never seen and about whom we are told no details?
Maz is indeed telling Rey to move on. And Rey's reaction makes it clear that deep in her heart she knew they were never coming back.
I don't believe I ever said anything related to her parents was "worthless". I used the word "irrelevant", which is different and I said that their identities were irrelevant. If I some stage I seemed to be saying their very existence was irrelevant and that Rey thinking about was pointless, that was not my intent. And in regards to their identities being irrelevant, I meant to the audience.
Knowing the names and home world of Rey's mother or father, or what became of them, or why they abandoned her is not important. All we really need to know is what they did to her.
So if Abrams and Ridley discussed who they are, it doesn't necessarily mean that she knows names or home world or occupation. The two may simply have talked about what type of people they were and why they left her so she could develop the character how she did. I can't find anything related Ridley commenting that she had such a discussion or that Abrams told her anything specific. All I see suggests Ridley is guessing like the rest of us.
I think it is safe to say that we have said all we can on much of the points we are talking about. And like I said the massive posts and getting in the way of the good stuff.
I am much more interested in you detailing why you think Rey could be Luke's daughter and in more details on what you see as clues. You mentioned the call of the lightsabre but prior to that you were talking about hints, so this means you have others. I'd also like to know Maz's speech is not so clear cut for you.
