Comics Roger Stern Interview...

[carnageehw]

It's curious where this arguement is now, and here's the real question: Can Peter Parker exist eternally exactely where he is and still work? So far so good but long term, I mean really long term, wouldn't you eventually need to have someone or something new? I love original characters but personally I feel the fear of change and reinventing the man or woman behind the mask to be a necessary component to keeping a comic company going. It's my opinion (and always has been) that sometime in the distant future, Spider-Man would need to hand over the mask to the next generation. I do not believe that any character can exist eternally fixed in age and still work, it has worked up to this point and I believe it will definately work for quite a while but I cannot see there never being a breaking point.

Good questions, and my personal answer is this: I don't care about then.

I think we should let the generation who may not even be born yet, think about what they want. Let the babies of the world grow up, and think for themselves what they want in a Spider-Man. Then when one of those babies grows up to be EIC of Marvel comics, they can make that desicion based on the thoughts, feelings and issues that surround THAT generation.

Making decisions for a future generation who doesn't even exist seems mightly silly, considering when this gneration retires, the next group in the company COULD possibly say "We don't like this, let's go back", and poof! We planned for the future, but the future didn't like those plans.

 

[shinlyle]

It's curious where this arguement is now, and here's the real question: Can Peter Parker exist eternally exactely where he is and still work? So far so good but long term, I mean really long term, wouldn't you eventually need to have someone or something new? I love original characters but personally I feel the fear of change and reinventing the man or woman behind the mask to be a necessary component to keeping a comic company going. It's my opinion (and always has been) that sometime in the distant future, Spider-Man would need to hand over the mask to the next generation. I do not believe that any character can exist eternally fixed in age and still work, it has worked up to this point and I believe it will definately work for quite a while but I cannot see there never being a breaking point.

Precisely. Eventually, they are going to do so many reboots and relaunches to make him "fresh" again, that people are going to get a bit jaded. We already know that any status quo shift with Peter Parker will eventually be undone. He can never grow, and he can never learn anything....just like Seinfeld...which I never really cared for.

Everyone hates on DC for doing the "inifinite crises", and I am proudly in that group, but look at how long their characters have been around! Superman And Batman first appeared in 1938 and 1939, respectively! They've been in their early thirties for almost 70 years.

Spidey has always been a very culture-based book. Flash going off to fight in Vietnam was very fitting and poignant back in the day. He came back, had troubles adjusting, and developed a drinking problem. Then, he went off to fight in Iraq as a grunt nearly 30 years later. He would be in his 50s, at the least. That's the thing, eventually, they will have to reset things, or at least make time period "adjustments", and it will eventually get tiresome.

It puts me in mind of the Punisher. He was in Vietnam, and, when Ennis took over, Marvel suggested making him a veteran of Desert Storm, or something. Ennis slapped the idea aside and said that Vietnam has always been such a part of Frank, that you couldn't take it away and have the same character. So, what happens in 10 more years? Are we going to watch a 70 plus years old Frank Castle sneaking out of the retirement home to take out some slave-traders, or will there eventually be a new Punisher?

I understand that the characters are timeless, but the longer they go without progressing, the more stagnant and predictable they will eventually become.

 

[Themanofbat]

It's curious where this arguement is now, and here's the real question: Can Peter Parker exist eternally exactely where he is and still work? So far so good but long term, I mean really long term, wouldn't you eventually need to have someone or something new? I love original characters but personally I feel the fear of change and reinventing the man or woman behind the mask to be a necessary component to keeping a comic company going. It's my opinion (and always has been) that sometime in the distant future, Spider-Man would need to hand over the mask to the next generation. I do not believe that any character can exist eternally fixed in age and still work, it has worked up to this point and I believe it will definately work for quite a while but I cannot see there never being a breaking point.

I once read somewhere that the average lifespan of a "comic book reader" was around 7 years... so basically, you can have some type of cyclical stories with your main characters without offending your basic audience too much because every 10 years or so, the people reading the books have changed...

So if your core audience changes every 7 years (if that is the case... I read that a long time ago), you can make your characters work indefinately.

 

[moraldeficiency]

well I'd say this message board is a case study that that case study doesn't really apply anymore, but I get what you're saying. Though from an artist's standpoint this is a bad thing. If all your doing is recycling the work of others on a title eventually your "good artists" (I.E. the people who want to write along with cashing a paycheck) (and by artist I mean writer also) aren't going to want to touch this stuff. How many times can you write the same story from a slightly different angle without the story losing all life? How many great writers want to do that without leaving a little of their own mark on the character? You saw what happened with JMS, and say what you will the man is a brilliant writer (what he's done on thor, the twelve, SS requiem and his revitalizing ASM along with his other work pretty much proves that) which is a cautionary tale for future writers. In fact I'd say a lot of the selling point for the braintrust is that this retcon needs major writing to get out of this forced mess and that challenge is something unique. But all and all, eventually I just can't think characters can stay locked forever without becoming stale to the point even a "new" reader is going to feel the lack of creativity and drive and be completely turned off by the character. That's why some progression (very slow) is a good thing in my mind and an eventual necessity.

 

[Styleshift]

It's kind of funny how Marvel used to boldly exclaim "We did it right the first time." In comparison to all the reboots DC does. Now Marvel has taken crazy reboots to a new level. Going as far as risking alienating fans to preserve the character for future fans that may have not even been born yet.

I agree about "passing the torch." I've said it once before on another board.
Miguel O'hara has fans. Ben O' Reily has fans.

They have replaced Captain America and now they are going to replace Batman. (Although I have not had the time to finish that arc, I have heard about it.)

Anyone think a Character like Peter can be replaced? If they passed the torch WITHOUT affecting the continuity in anyway.

I believe he can. As long as they keep the theme of the book and have a character with an intresting back story and likable personality.

Replacing Peter would mean his death though. (Or at least a coma.) It's not in character for him to "leave it up to someone else".

 

[moraldeficiency]

I thought mayday would have been a fine new rendition of Spider-Man, with pete maybe moving on to say teach groups of supers like the young avengers.

 

[Themanofbat]

Obviously, I thought Ben Reilly could have been a great "Spider-Man"... I just believe that the fans revolted the idea that Peter Parker was a clone... that was a bit much... I think if Peter had always been Peter, became powerless, then moved to Portland with a very pregnant MJ and had his family, things could have moved on and we could have been reading similar stories as we are now... Ben Reilly, the clone, could have been Spider-Man... but the fans rejected the idea that Ben Reilly was the "real" Peter Parker.

That was the only flaw in the Clone Saga, in my opinion...

 

[Themanofbat]

well I'd say this message board is a case study that that case study doesn't really apply anymore, but I get what you're saying. Though from an artist's standpoint this is a bad thing. If all your doing is recycling the work of others on a title eventually your "good artists" (I.E. the people who want to write along with cashing a paycheck) (and by artist I mean writer also) aren't going to want to touch this stuff. How many times can you write the same story from a slightly different angle without the story losing all life? How many great writers want to do that without leaving a little of their own mark on the character? You saw what happened with JMS, and say what you will the man is a brilliant writer (what he's done on thor, the twelve, SS requiem and his revitalizing ASM along with his other work pretty much proves that) which is a cautionary tale for future writers. In fact I'd say a lot of the selling point for the braintrust is that this retcon needs major writing to get out of this forced mess and that challenge is something unique. But all and all, eventually I just can't think characters can stay locked forever without becoming stale to the point even a "new" reader is going to feel the lack of creativity and drive and be completely turned off by the character. That's why some progression (very slow) is a good thing in my mind and an eventual necessity.

Obviously, any artist (writer and art maker) can being a fresh take on an old villain, but at the same time, they need to be more creative with new villains as well as "real life" scenarios to put Peter Parker in... at some point, you might see a story that was "similar" to one told 2 decades ago, but as a long-time reader, I can shrug that off as long as it doesn't occur constantly.

Gosh, remember when a young Gerry Conway retold the story from Spectacular Spider-Man Magazine #1 (1968), originally penned by Stan Lee, and remade it work in ASM #116, 117 & 118? Man, were the fans in 1973 ever confused to be re-reading a tale told a mere 5 years prior... t: t: t:

I believe that the new creative teams on ASM will bring some (very slow) progression to Peter Parker, as well as some new villains along with old classics... because at the end of the day, we the readers just want to read good Spider-Man stories, and I believe that these guys just want to tell good Spider-Man stories... and I've been enjoying them for the most part (there have been a few snores)...

 

[moraldeficiency]

That was the exact problem with the clone saga, making pete the clone (then the wifebeating thing). If reilly was the clone from the start (and maybe just eliminate the whole trainer thing) I think he would have worked and gotten far better reception and not any of the hate. Oh and the costume was a bit too flashdance esque. I did love the stingers and impact webbing additions.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Obviously, any artist (writer and art maker) can being a fresh take on an old villain, but at the same time, they need to be more creative with new villains as well as "real life" scenarios to put Peter Parker in... at some point, you might see a story that was "similar" to one told 2 decades ago, but as a long-time reader, I can shrug that off as long as it doesn't occur constantly.

Gosh, remember when a young Gerry Conway retold the story from Spectacular Spider-Man Magazine #1 (1968), originally penned by Stan Lee, and remade it work in ASM #116, 117 & 118? Man, were the fans in 1973 ever confused to be re-reading a tale told a mere 5 years prior... t: t: t:

I believe that the new creative teams on ASM will bring some (very slow) progression to Peter Parker, as well as some new villains along with old classics... because at the end of the day, we the readers just want to read good Spider-Man stories, and I believe that these guys just want to tell good Spider-Man stories... and I've been enjoying them for the most part (there have been a few snores)...

While I agree with a lot of this, the problem becomes how many times can you take the exact same stories and make them fresh? 10? 20? 100? Eventually you run out of things to do with the same status quo that cannot be changed or altered, and eventually good writers won't want to bother. I'm certianly not saying Peter Parker needs to grow up in real time or anything ridiculous as that, but I do believe after a long enough timespan you need to move on and give an new generation a shot. This can 20 something Peter Parker with no real change or advancement still resonate in another 40 years? What about 70? Batman's been prepping for a guard change for quite a while, it hasn't taken cause it's too early, but I see them ready for it when it's time, I just hope marvel can look to the future the way they're claiming too now.

 

[shinlyle]

It's good to see we can all agree that the questioning of Peter's authenticity was what pushed the Clone Saga over the edge into "craptastic" territory.

I didn't mind Ben Reilly as Spider-Man....but Scarlet Spider was the worst idea ever. The costume was bad, the name was bad, only the weapons were cool.

If BR had become Spidey so that Peter could hav ehis happily ever after, I could have dealt with that....so long as Peter was still the Peter we've known since AF15.

 

[farmernudie]

Yeh, i had to stop collecting during Clone Saga too...sadly.

The fact that Pete was a fake all these years we read him, was just insulting to me. It took away from any postives that BR may have had.

And then, it just DRAGGED AND DRAGGED for way too long. It was like the song that never ends...

 

[Styleshift]

Obviously, I thought Ben Reilly could have been a great "Spider-Man"... I just believe that the fans revolted the idea that Peter Parker was a clone... that was a bit much... I think if Peter had always been Peter, became powerless, then moved to Portland with a very pregnant MJ and had his family, things could have moved on and we could have been reading similar stories as we are now... Ben Reilly, the clone, could have been Spider-Man... but the fans rejected the idea that Ben Reilly was the "real" Peter Parker.

That was the only flaw in the Clone Saga, in my opinion...

I agree...
They had an excellent plan with the clone saga.
It wouldn't have bothered me if Ben became the successor.
It would not have affected continuity...but rather fit into it.

But people couldn't handle the fact that "they've been reading about a clone all these years." I'm not a fan of that idea...but at least we might have had an option had they kept them both as Spider-men. I loved when they teamed up. To tell you the truth I just really miss Ben Reilly.

I actually liked some of the clone saga...it's a shame how it turned out with all the crossing between titles, the extended length, and the start of putting Norman Osborn as the man in the dark behind every plot.

 

[shinlyle]

Yeh, i had to stop collecting during Clone Saga too...sadly.

The fact that Pete was a fake all these years we read him, was just insulting to me. It took away from any postives that BR may have had.

And then, it just DRAGGED AND DRAGGED for way too long. It was like the song that never ends...

Had the Clone saga been a 12 parter or something that led to Peter getting depowered, MJ getting pregnant, and BR taking over as Spider-man, I could have lived with it...at least more easily than OMD.

 

[Styleshift]

Speaking of Ben Reily, this brings me to a point that I was thinking about initially after the "no one remembers who was under Spidey's mask comment."

Or at least when it became obvious that something is at play here to keep people from finding out again. (The symbiote, The assasin thinking Vin was Spidey, not to mention the comic book store clerk.)

If Ben were still alive....would he know Peter is Spidey? weiiiiird huh? ....
any thoughts?

 

[Themanofbat]

If Ben were still alive....would he know Peter is Spidey? weiiiiird huh? ....
any thoughts?

That would be kind of cool to see in light of Marvel now talking about possibly bringing Ben Reilly in some capacity, pending on sales of X-Men/Spider-Man #3, featuring the BR Spider-Man...

(Of course, this could just be a sales tactic to get more people to buy the book... )

 

[kguillou]

I dont know guys, i personally loved Ben Reilly and would've loved to see him as spider-man, but i think the majority of the fans would have been outraged to see Peter Parker go. Even if they didnt pull the "he was a fake all along" stunt, the fact that peter parker was no longer going to be spidey would have outraged alot of fans i think especially since it was way too early in spidey's comic career for him to retire.

 

[Styleshift]

That would be kind of cool to see in light of Marvel now talking about possibly bringing Ben Reilly in some capacity, pending on sales of X-Men/Spider-Man #3, featuring the BR Spider-Man...

(Of course, this could just be a sales tactic to get more people to buy the book... )

I think it's the latter....
I believe bringing back Ben Reilly would mean answering unresolved clone saga answers...Or at least drawing stories from that era. Which they don't want to do.

Did that Issue come out yet?
I nearly bought the first one with the teen versions of Spidey and the X-men.

But I picked up the Hush Origin story instead. Kind of a bad move...because It didn't say it was a multiple part event.

 

[Themanofbat]

Did that Issue come out yet?
I nearly bought the first one with the teen versions of Spidey and the X-men.

No... the first issue came out a few weeks ago, and it was fun...

The second issue will be out this month, and #3 will be in January...

You should get these comics... they are lots of fun with good ties to continuity, as well as a mystery going on through all of them to be resolved in issue #4...

 

[Styleshift]

No... the first issue came out a few weeks ago, and it was fun...

The second issue will be out this month, and #3 will be in January...

You should get these comics... they are lots of fun with good ties to continuity, as well as a mystery going on through all of them to be resolved in issue #4...

Sounds good....I love a good mystery.
I'll pick them up on my next trip and I have to support BN whether its just a plan to get money or not.

I'm starting to wish I hadn't picked up that HUSH origin issue.

Wasn't bad...but I had no clue what was going on.