Scarlet Spider.

[mbeskine]

Hi all.
I thought it would be intereting to start a thread here about what you all think of Scarlet Spider. As we know, Kaine has now got his very own comic book title. I personally think its brilliant and my full review is on my blog( http://comicconduit.blogspot.com/2012/01/scarlet-spider-1.html).

I'm curious as to whether other people also share my opinion on the series based on its fist issue, if not what is? I'll be very interested to see were this thread goes...
Yours,
Mbeskine

 

[choskins]

There is an existing thread discussing the Scarlet Spider series here:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=371077

Check it out.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, it's as valid here as it is in the Spider-Man forum, and not everyone visits both forums. I'll allow this thread's existence. So it has been spoken, so shall it be done.

 

[SpideyForPrez]

I picked it up last week and thought it was okay. I like the idea of Kaine being the new Scarlet Spider, IMO it's better than bringing back Ben. And I've always liked Ben. This way we get a darker Spider-Man, which I realize is the gimmick, but it could lead to some interesting stories. I also like that even though Kaine is cured, he's still a little crazy and paranoid.

One thing I didn't like was the generic, body builder with flame powers villain. I'd rather they put him up against a villain he could maybe relate to, a legacy villain like Hobgoblin or someone.

I haven't decided if I'll pick up the next issue or not.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The darker Spider-Man thing might've interested me if I weren't already reading Venom. This whole Kaine/Scarlet Spider series just strikes me as a bad idea. Would've been better if he'd just stuck to being Kaine.

 

[runawayboulder]

I'll give it a bit to try and build something.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I guess I should note that I'm not actually reading the series. That was just my impression based on the concept. It could turn out to be entirely amazing. Venom itself didn't sound like an especially strong concept at the start to me either, but Rick Remender's done pretty good stuff with it.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Yeah, I was going to pass on it because of the "Scarlet Spider" rip off. I can't stand it when fans ask for a character and then marvel uses that to do something else and we fans just follow it like sheep... the like the name "Scarlet Spider" is more important to us than the character himself.

Anyhow, I do love Kaine though and while I've skipped out on every other story he's been in since the Clone Saga ended I thought I'd give this first issue a shot. It was good though I have no interest in the generic villain in the end. I figure this title will likely be one of those skim at the shop before buying books. At $3 an issue it's worth that at least. I'm not holding my breath for a long term purchase.

 

[Dread]

May as well repost what I wrote in the other topic:

I thought SCARLET SPIDER #1 was very good - good enough that I made it the "Book Of The Week" for the weekly reviews I do on a column at Examiner.com : http://www.examiner.com/comic-books-...-winter-review

I was critical of what purpose the book could serve, but I do see where Yost is going with it. This is basically a redemption story - Kaine has a new lease on life and now that he isn't dying anymore, he has to face the fact that he used to be really crazy and killed people. That he's paranoid and had no real goals or plans because he expected to die. Some have argued that Kaine has been made very similar to Reilly, but I don't think a revived Reilly would have had much to "redeem". I like the fact that Kaine still acts very much like an antagonist - he yells at the old lady he saved, and he grabs cops by the head and lifts them up. It would be too easy if Kaine simply becomes a superhero due to "genes" or "guilt", so I do like how he is having trials by fire here. The POINT ONE #1 story had Kaine sort of stop a robbery due to Parker's memory plaguing him, but this seems more interesting. He only stopped the trafficking shipment because he needed cash money (which the criminals had). He only saved the girl because he happened to get curious about the cargo. And his attempt to be a "hero" by saving the old lady went wrong, as he was so powerful he injured the driver instead. Therefore, his struggle is whether he becomes a superhero even if it goes against his best interests - leading a happy, indulgent life.

Stegman's artwork is very good; I've missed his work since seeing him on INCREDIBLE HERCULES and it's good to see him get a solid gig again. Marvel has issued a reprint of the first issue, which at the very least implies it sold above expectations. Hard figures won't be known until the middle of next month. However, ASM usually averages 52k-58k per issue, so if it managed to top that for a debut like AVENGING SPIDER-MAN did, that'd be keen. Of course, VENOM didn't but it has proven to be rock solid in terms of sales, thus far. I like that Stegman, unlike Humberto Ramos, seems to remember that while Kaine is a clone of Parker, he isn't EXACTLY the same and is supposed to be taller and bulkier. Kaine does have the same fingerprints, and that got Parker in legal trouble once before; one wonders if that may come up again.

In the end it seems Yost wants to do a redemption of Kaine in a new setting with a new cast and villains, with the title SCARLET SPIDER attached pretty much for attention and to maintain a trademark. So long as it is executed properly, there's nothing wrong with that. The anti-venom "cure" is being used as an excuse to fiddle with Kaine's powers (no spider-sense/ESP, but he can control spiders and has night-vision), but it's as good an excuse as any. Him having his own powers is essential.

Ironically, Kaine/Scarlet Spider is one of the first superheroes based in Texas who isn't based on a cliche such as a cowboy, a Native American, or an armadillo.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Although, it should be noted, that Kaine's path to redemption was already well underway before he disappeared from the books, starting in the aptly named Spider-Man: Redemption.

 

[runawayboulder]

The whole thing with killing the truck driver was the one downer for me. I think he should be past the point of being reckless. I though he learned the lesson of selflessness during Grim Hunt.

 

[Dread]

Kaine was (presumably) back to being a bit of a maniac when he first showed up again in the BND era.

He also isn't experienced in being a hero and can be prone to making a mistake, especially as he's used to acting a bit like a brute and throwing his weight around.

 

[KingMob]

I may be biased, getting into comics through Spider-Man comics during the Clone Saga, but I really loved the first issue. I liked Stegman on Hercules but it really seemed like he brought his A-game here. This was a good looking comic. Yost having Kaine take down some crooks for the money was awesome, because as a dude in constant need of money, that would be one of the first things I'd do. Creating a new villain was also better than borrowing some random, unused Spider-Man villain, imo. I'll definitely be continuing with this series, even though the cynic in me says it will be canceled in 5 issues.

 

[Dread]

I may be biased, getting into comics through Spider-Man comics during the Clone Saga, but I really loved the first issue. I liked Stegman on Hercules but it really seemed like he brought his A-game here. This was a good looking comic. Yost having Kaine take down some crooks for the money was awesome, because as a dude in constant need of money, that would be one of the first things I'd do. Creating a new villain was also better than borrowing some random, unused Spider-Man villain, imo. I'll definitely be continuing with this series, even though the cynic in me says it will be canceled in 5 issues.

The creative team, Stegman especially, seemed to be enthused to be working on a Kaine series, which may be why his pencils seemed to pop more.

And let's be optimistic. Marvel announced a 2nd print of SCARLET SPIDER #1, which Marvel doesn't do unless sales figures exceeded expectations. So it may not be canceled until at least 8-9 issues have shipped.

 

[KingMob]

HA!

Be it 5 issues or 12, I can't complain. I'll take what I can get. The fact that there is even a book starring Kaine is baffling, but welcome.

 

[Will Nolte]

I talked to my old LCS guy from when I was going to Arizona State yesterday. He said they over ordered issue 1 like crazy and STILL sold out the day it arrived. He said between that and how well the book was written/drawn he expects the book to last for 2 years at least.

 

[runawayboulder]

I high number for the 1st issue won't shock me at all, every number 1 sells. I want to see where this book is on the sales charts by issue 6. There's all these pro-Clone Saga fans running around out there, this book should sell with no problem.

 

[Dread]

HA!

Be it 5 issues or 12, I can't complain. I'll take what I can get. The fact that there is even a book starring Kaine is baffling, but welcome.

It makes some sense if you analyze Marvel's current strategy alongside old dynamics.

An old dynamic is every editor will have characters they like and look for any excuse to get into a comic somehow. Editorial will, for instance, kept AGENTS OF ATLAS coming back for a while. It likely helped elevate Squirrel-Girl from also-ran to a character that has made the leap to the small screen and video games. Stephen Wacker admitted such will for Kaine, so it was no surprise that the first chance he got to have a writer put him in ASM, he did.

As for the comic itself, Marvel's 2012 edict from on high is to expand on their "safe" franchises and try less of new things. Thus, we will see less of those "what were they thinking" series like LEGION OF MONSTERS or MYSTERY MEN - even if some of those were perfectly readable - and more of things like a 5th X-Men book, a 3rd Capt. America book, a 5th Avengers book and so on. Thus, it was time for ASM to branch out again, despite it's creation as a 2-3 issues a month format forming from "merging" 3 Spidey books of 2007 into ASM. So, we had VENOM which was a spin off, which has been modestly successful - as any book which survives 12 issues suddenly is. We have AVENGING SPIDER-MAN, which is basically Spider-Man Team Up, which has debuted well. Now editorial decides to imitate VENOM's success, but who to spin off? Would BLACK CAT sell? Who else is there? So they decided to merge Wacker's pet character with a rabidly vocal minority of fans who want Reilly back, and knew that SCARLET SPIDER would attract some attention.

Look, I was the first to initially claim I saw no purpose for this book. But it makes more sense to me as a launch than SWORD or DOCTOR VOODOO did. After all, Marvel had X-23 and DAKEN spin off from WOLVERINE for a stretch.

I talked to my old LCS guy from when I was going to Arizona State yesterday. He said they over ordered issue 1 like crazy and STILL sold out the day it arrived. He said between that and how well the book was written/drawn he expects the book to last for 2 years at least.

I wouldn't bet on ANY book lasting 2 years in this market. I love AVENGER ACADEMY and I am still stunned it has lasted that long. And I STILL wouldn't bet that it'd last a 3rd.

It will be interesting to see where it debuted and to compare it to VENOM #1.

I high number for the 1st issue won't shock me at all, every number 1 sells. I want to see where this book is on the sales charts by issue 6. There's all these pro-Clone Saga fans running around out there, this book should sell with no problem.

True. I highly doubt there are enough ravenous Reilly fans to keep a book afloat, unless the sales expectations matched those of JUGHEAD. And some of them may be irked that it's Kaine behind the mantle and not a revived Reilly. If SCARLET SPIDER survives, it will have to sell readers on it's new take on the franchise, much like Remender did with VENOM.