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Season 1, Episode 12: "Through the Valley of Death" (spoilers)

Superman didn’t even get a chance to kick ass here at the end. He took a back seat on his own show. Lame beyond belief. Just rename the show Steel since he always seems to come out on top. I’ll give it the rest of the season but it is totally utter **** to constantly have Superman lose or as here taking a back seat; which has been the case all season
 
For Rao’s sake this is exactly the reverse of what people have been saying on Supergirl. Just like the comics other heroes are rarely referred to outside of crossovers. IRL there’s no crossovers this year and Melissa Benoist is spending all her time on her show.
The showrunners need to collectively decide whether they want this shared universe, or whether they don't.

I can appreciate that they can't always have heroes from one show on the others, but when you've got potential world altering events, and one of your biggest hitters is compromised, that's where you call in backup.

Kara and Barry would've had this sorted much quicker, and their involvement wouldn't have put Earth at as much risk.

If they're not going to involve other characters, then maybe keep the threats more localised, where it's not going to directly reflect on the others.
 
I think it would make things easier for some people if they just had the characters giving quick explanations as to why the others aren't available to help out (e.g Barry busy with Godspeed, Kara and company being in space).
 
Good episode loved it. Loved how Jon and Jordan did everything they could in saving their dad and they did. Jon’s scene with John Henry was one of the best in the whole series. Also Jordan has matured a lot lately, he’s come far from the kid he started out as. I couldn’t love Lois even more than i do, her un ending faith in Clark was what ultimately saved him in the end. It gave him the strength to fight the mind control and beat it. Awesome moment when he hears her voice and automatically stops fighting Steel.
Lol the punch Supes gave Tal-Rho kept rewatching that. I dunno I have a feeling it’s not over, it’s all too easy right now. We’ll see next episode if something bad is coming. Loved the family reunion scene, so beautiful. That’s the heart of the show: The Kent family. 3 more episodes to go, though I’m thinking what else can they give is? This show has been fast paced since it began
 
I think it would make things easier for some people if they just had the characters giving quick explanations as to why the others aren't available to help out (e.g Barry busy with Godspeed, Kara and company being in space).

They don’t do that on the other shows though. Also it’s rarely a thing in the comics either so I don’t see why they need to do it at all really.
 
I don’t buy that a hero — even one as deeply motivated as Clark — could overcome the effects of the Eradicator by the sheer force of determination and love. Force of will cannot enable a drunk person to sober up immediately, nor stop an earworm from playing over and over and over in a person’s mind.

The resolution didn’t cost Clark anything. It isn’t enough that he was willing to let Irons kill him. Dramatically, there needed to be some follow-through on that commitment to self-sacrifice. Clark didn’t have to die to overcome his adversary, but he should have had to give up something. Clark’s victory should have required payment.
 
I don’t buy that a hero — even one as deeply motivated as Clark — could overcome the effects of the Eradicator by the sheer force of determination and love...

Conceptually, I didn’t mind that conceit — and it did reflect Lois’s confidence that love of family, etc. would win the day. My peeve was with the execution. To me, it seemed that Superman’s struggle was kinda abstract and perfunctory. I started to wonder if depicting his internal/mental state — perhaps a hallucinogenic confrontation with the ghost of Zod? — might have worked better, been more dramatically engaging. :shrug: A tad cliché, granted. But what we got instead were scenes of Hoechlin grunting and straining, augmented by “happy” flashbacks from previous episodes. So not much better.
 
The resolution didn’t cost Clark anything. It isn’t enough that he was willing to let Irons kill him. Dramatically, there needed to be some follow-through on that commitment to self-sacrifice. Clark didn’t have to die to overcome his adversary, but he should have had to give up something. Clark’s victory should have required payment.

Recent media has soured me on the idea that victory must "cost something". You can overcome adversity, no matter how difficult, without sacrificing yourself.
 
I just need a quick "I wish Kara were here to help out" and Im good!

But since this is probably the big "Superman goes evil" in this series, at least for the next few years...it needed to be bigger, have more of an impact, and leave people shaken of the possibility of what could happen. They always thought it COULD but it DID and just like in the DCAU, this should cause further ramifications of the government or one of the many secret orgs to try even harder to create their own super soldiers (Captain Atom, Galatea) to combat Supes.
 
Does this episode happen chronologically before Diggle's other appearances because he isn't struggling with any headaches and Lyla is still in charge of Argus. Or maybe it's a different Diggle from another universe or timeline.

This whole question is brought up in this article I saw on Screen Rant

Superman & Lois Introduced A Major Arrow Finale Plot Hole

What did Edge say at the end of the episode?
 
Lyla was in charge of Argus when Digg showed up in The Flash.
 
What if anything happened with Diggle’s presumed Green Lantern Ring. I don’t want to bother watching if nothing new happened with that.
Nothing new to see here (yet). I suspect whatever is going on with Diggle is going to be strung out for a long while yet..
 
Lyla was in charge of Argus when Digg showed up in The Flash.

But she wasn't in charge at the end of Arrow because she accepted a position in the Department of Defence and they were all going to move to Metropolis as a result. I assumed Diggle would be able to show up regularly in Superman. On their way there was when Diggle came across that green rock.
 
Does this episode happen chronologically before Diggle's other appearances because he isn't struggling with any headaches and Lyla is still in charge of Argus. Or maybe it's a different Diggle from another universe or timeline.

This whole question is brought up in this article I saw on Screen Rant

Superman & Lois Introduced A Major Arrow Finale Plot Hole

Major plot hole”? Kinda clickbait-y hyperbole.:cwink: More accurately: there’s a possible inconsistency in the job description of a secondary character. Indeed, article dude acknowledges a plausible interpretation whereby there’s no inconsistency at all.
 
I don’t buy that a hero — even one as deeply motivated as Clark — could overcome the effects of the Eradicator by the sheer force of determination and love. Force of will cannot enable a drunk person to sober up immediately, nor stop an earworm from playing over and over and over in a person’s mind.

The resolution didn’t cost Clark anything. It isn’t enough that he was willing to let Irons kill him. Dramatically, there needed to be some follow-through on that commitment to self-sacrifice. Clark didn’t have to die to overcome his adversary, but he should have had to give up something. Clark’s victory should have required payment.

I think subsequent episodes will deal with the ramifications of Clark nearly going bad. Edge is still around to be the proverbial devil on Clark's shoulder; it's not over yet. What's less believable to me is John Irons having a late-stage change of heart, but I can accept it given the restraints of episodic TV and how well Irons has been fleshed out in the series. His storyline has been one of the best in the show, IMO more interesting than Edge.
 
Irons didn't want to stay for dinner, but he should come for dinner another time. That way he'll be able to see that Clark is a family man and how his family love him. At the moment he just had to take their word for it but hadn't seen it for himself. If he actually witnessed it, then there would be no doubt in his mind that this world's Superman is different from the one on Irons's world.

So in a way, although he said that family time is sacred, it felt like an excuse, as if he were trying to get out of it because he still wasn't comfortable with the idea of sharing a meal with Superman. It was almost as if he didn't want to get to know him in case he began to see him in a different light and even start to develop a friendship. Sometimes it is easier to keep at a distance in order to maintain those feelings of animosity or mistrust.
 
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But she wasn't in charge at the end of Arrow because she accepted a position in the Department of Defence and they were all going to move to Metropolis as a result. I assumed Diggle would be able to show up regularly in Superman. On their way there was when Diggle came across that green rock.

Looks like no one cared where Arrow set their characters lol and ignored it
 
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Does this episode happen chronologically before Diggle's other appearances because he isn't struggling with any headaches and Lyla is still in charge of Argus. Or maybe it's a different Diggle from another universe or timeline.

This whole question is brought up in this article I saw on Screen Rant

Superman & Lois Introduced A Major Arrow Finale Plot Hole

What did Edge say at the end of the episode?

I know the flow of time can be a bit messed up in these series but just going by what we've seen Superman & Lois is still set Fall 2020, whilst Batwoman was stated to be 2021 pretty early on and Diggle mentions being in Gotham in Flash so his Flash appearance has to come after his Batwoman appearance. So I'm actually grateful they didn't do or say anything that set it after those appearances.
 


Hnng, I love this show so much. Maybe didn’t ring any bells for some people but there’s so much sub context here in this scene for people going through real life difficulties that got me all emotional.

Very much in the mutant and proud vibe, this scene about fighting something subconscious for your family was just chefs kiss for me. This show continues to nail Superman because he’s not just a hero, he’s a human being and family man.


“You remember who you are. You fight back damnit!”.
 
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So in a way, although he said that family time is sacred, it felt like he an excuse, as if he were trying to get out of it because he still wasn't comfortable with the idea of sharing a meal with Superman. It was almost as if he didn't want to get to know him in case he began to see him in a different light and even start to develop a friendship. Sometimes it is easier to keep at a distance in order to maintain those feelings of animosity or mistrust.
I think it was both an excuse and genuine. Irons must be experiencing a whole lot of confusion and guilt over deviating from his mission of justice and vengeance by trying to connect with this world’s version of his sister. He’s healing, but it probably doesn’t feel like it.
 
Right away, this episode killed me by having the "Metropolis Institute of Technology" have the 2010 Olympic Experience banners on the wall.
 
Right away, this episode killed me by having the "Metropolis Institute of Technology" have the 2010 Olympic Experience banners on the wall.
Well if Vancouver's still wearing those Olympic sites with pride, then surely Metropolis would be when they inevitably hosted, too! Even the ones with whole other functions! :oldrazz:
 

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