Season 5 Episode 10 Discussion "Mother's Mercy"

[Rowsdower!]

pretty much this I'm truly sadden by what happened to John
where was ghost?

I guess it's possible that the Night's Watch might have lured Ghost into a cage or something, since he likely trusted them. But it's more likely that the writers just forgot about him, as usual.

Since it's apparently impossible on a TV budget to use some camera tricks to make a normal wolf appear abnormally huge, but you can have a giant CGI dragon in damn near every episode.

 

[afan]

It's simple to disciples of the Lord of Light.
If Ghost arrived to defend Jon, Ghost would have been killed by the Night's Watch. If, and I believe this to be a reality, Melisandre brings Jon back than his direwolf would be lost to him.

That being said......re. CGI.....it's easier to create a believable dragon than a wolf.

 

[choskins]

Source?

"The sequence took three grueling days to shoot, and while Headey might not have been naked herself during all the shots (a body double was used)..."

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-walk-shame

 

[conan69]

Come on guys, learn to use the google. This story broke like a year ago and theres been lots of articles about it...


https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=lena+heady+body+double

 

[Tyrell Wellick]

so whats the name of the song during snow's death?

 

[Golgo-13]

So was Melisandre lying about Stannis' conquest, or is it possible and he wasn't executed by Breanne and there is another battle that he wins..?

 

[mocomic]

If Lena had worn a green body stocking. Why wouldn't the churches there have allowed it

 

[Swordmaster]

So was Melisandre lying about Stannis' conquest, or is it possible and he wasn't executed by Breanne and there is another battle that he wins..?

She misinterpreted her visions.

 

[Victarion]

So was Melisandre lying about Stannis' conquest, or is it possible and he wasn't executed by Breanne and there is another battle that he wins..?

I don't think that Brienne killed him, because why do that quick cut if she did? I expect they will make it back to the Wall, and that Melisandre will make a sacrifice of him to revive Jon. Stannis also has king's blood.

 

[TJByrum]

I think there's a chance that no one is specifically Azor Ahai until R'hollor decides there is. Like he has potential candidates, but yet to choose one

And I think Stannis was a candidate, but then Jon slew a White Walker and so R'hollor began to favor him, hence Stannis' loss. Maybe Berric is a candidate.

Or Stannis is AA, and every time he goes off course R'hollor has to put him on he right track. Try to attack Kings Landing? Nope, go north. Goes north, beats the Wildlings, everything going good, got a large force. Then goes south again... Nope. R'hollor tries to snow him in and send him to Castle Black, but he won't go. So R'hollor melts the snow and let's him get beat at Winterfell, allowing Brienne to send him back to Castle Black, which is where R'hollor wants him. R'hollor caused his men to desert so his whole army won't get destroyed, they'll then follow him once again when WW attack.

 

[stillanerd]

I don't think that Brienne killed him, because why do that quick cut if she did? I expect they will make it back to the Wall, and that Melisandre will make a sacrifice of him to revive Jon. Stannis also has king's blood.

Re: Stannis, Variety asked David Nutter, the director of this episode, about whether or not Brienne killed him:

There’s also speculation about whether Stannis is truly dead. We didn’t see Brienne deliver that final, fatal blow.

I think that was basically in the script. Dan and David felt it best not to be gratuitous with that. You really got a sense that Stannis had nothing else to live for. Brienne’s life-long mission had come to an end. It’s a situation in which Stannis was ready to die and prepared to die. It would have been gratuitous.

And if you look at the way the scene is shot, it's a classic, textbook smash cut. We see Brienne swinging down the sword from Stannis' POV and then we immediately jump to Ramsey delivering the final blow to one of Stannis' men. Even though we didn't actually see Brienne kill Stannis, our mind automatically fills in the blank precisely because we jump to an image which immediately evokes the earlier scene we were just in.

Also, it makes sense in the context of the show for Stannis to be dead. Stannis entire arc was that he was someone who believed he was destined to be king; that he believed his own hype about being the greatest military commander Westeros has ever seen. Heck, he even had a witch/priestess who kept filling his head that he was chosen by her god to save the world. He even killed his own brother because he saw him as rival for the throne. So having him commit an act, the burning of his own daughter in a ritualistic sacrifice out of desperation, only for that to lead to half his army deserting, his wife hanging herself, and even the witch/priestess he'd become more and more dependent on leaving him, then having his entire army massacred, and then killed by his brother's former retainer all fits in terms of completing his story. Besides, we all knew he wasn't the Azor Ahai anyway, and thus wasn't going to make it to the Iron Throne.

Also, let's not forget that even the most brilliant of military leaders are only human and can make costly tactical mistakes. After all, Napoleon was also considered to be the greatest military genius in his day, and he made the mistake of invading Russia.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

I think there's a chance that no one is specifically Azor Ahai until R'hollor decides there is. Like he has potential candidates, but yet to choose one

And I think Stannis was a candidate, but then Jon slew a White Walker and so R'hollor began to favor him, hence Stannis' loss. Maybe Berric is a candidate.

Or Stannis is AA, and every time he goes off course R'hollor has to put him on he right track. Try to attack Kings Landing? Nope, go north. Goes north, beats the Wildlings, everything going good, got a large force. Then goes south again... Nope. R'hollor tries to snow him in and send him to Castle Black, but he won't go. So R'hollor melts the snow and let's him get beat at Winterfell, allowing Brienne to send him back to Castle Black, which is where R'hollor wants him. R'hollor caused his men to desert so his whole army won't get destroyed, they'll then follow him once again when WW attack.

That's my thinking too.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

so whats the name of the song during snow's death?

[YT]8wUafUWy0oU[/YT]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wUafUWy0oU
It takes the beginning part and middle part and sows 'em together, then it ends on the long note at the beginning again.

 

[The Riddler]

That all depends on ones perspective- im refering specifically to ur comment about all the set up for Snow being meaningless meandering and poor story telling. Another view point is that its brilliant and an accurate portrayal of the real world. Where great men are destined to do great things only to be taken out in their prime- not an all to uncommon occurrence. And for a book about who is to be king, with everyone believing Snow to be said person its an awesome and controversial plot twist.

Its likely that Snow is Azhor (sp?)- forgive me im horrible w.names but im sure u know who im referencing- he's probably him reborn and will be played by another actir but still Snow. So yeah im inclined to think u are right and some form of Snow will be back- but if not i can definitely see value in that as well. GOT is anything but predictable u silly rabbit...lol

i get what you're saying, but it it's a theme we've already seen countless times before. at this point, i think it is poor story telling because snow's death is, in effect, a redux of ned's death, and robb's death. it doesn't mine anything new.

also, jon's parentage, which is significant and has been hinted at throughout the series, hasn't even been revealed yet. i just don't see how it's good for the story to have jon die with this much story still in flux.

 

[YodaOfTheNorth]

I am sorry but even as much as New hated the lannisters. I think Ned would have stopped or tried to stop the public displays against the queen. This ofcourse assuming he was Still Hand or what ever Robert declared him as. You also know there is no way Ned would allow these Stannis burnings.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I really don't see what the big deal is, considering this is the country where they routinely burn children alive.

But yeah, Ned was a gentleman.

 

[Thundercrack85]

What does king's blood mean though? I mean, Robert's claim to the throne is as dubious as the next person. He killed the last king's heir.

 

[TJByrum]

I read earlier than Ned ain't dead, he's warged into some crows flying over his body...?

 

[YodaOfTheNorth]

How is Mel Gonna Sacrifice Stannis or talk him into that since the look in his eyes were he had been had. More then likely Stannis will be clam at first and then grab her throat and says your the only one whos gonna burn. The great spin would be Mel gets sacrificed and she turns into an old hag and Jon his really not dead the whole time anyways. Davos and Stannis could take him elsehwere for treatment.

 

[TJByrum]

How is Mel Gonna Sacrifice Stannis or talk him into that since the look in his eyes were he had been had. More then likely Stannis will be clam at first and then grab her throat and says your the only one whos gonna burn. The great spin would be Mel gets sacrificed and she turns into an old hag and Jon his really not dead the whole time anyways. Davos and Stannis could take him elsehwere for treatment.

Unless there's a master behind that pole... yeah, he's pretty much done for.

 

[YodaOfTheNorth]

I read earlier than Ned ain't dead, he's warged into some crows flying over his body...?

Sounds like one of my wishful theories. My ultimate warg wish is that Ned now is in Drogon and braught dany too a place where men know how to fight unlike her Unsullied.

 

[TJByrum]

Sounds like one of my wishful theories. My ultimate warg wish is that Ned now is in Drogon and braught dany too a place where men know how to fight unlike her Unsullied.

I thought the Unsullied were considered capable combatants too.

Ned as Drogon? That sounds pretty cool to be honest.

 

[YodaOfTheNorth]

Unless there's a master behind that pole... yeah, he's pretty much done for.

I just want Mel too burn somehow and Stannis to be done with the mind games. Maybe he will make Brienne captain of the kings guard once he finds some.

 

[YodaOfTheNorth]

I thought the Unsullied were considered capable combatants too.

Ned as Drogon? That sounds pretty cool to be honest.

Well this season and old man named Selmy killed more enemy then the Sullied did. the Unsullied cant fight close quarter.

 

[TJByrum]

I just want Mel too burn somehow and Stannis to be done with the mind games. Maybe he will make Brienne captain of the kings guard once he finds some.

That was a joke because the Hound said that before he 'died'. Making Brienne Captain of the great, glorious, one true king Stanni's Kings Guard though would be a nice twist.

Well this season and old man named Selmy killed more enemy then the Sullied did. the Unsullied cant fight close quarter.

Oh, I see what you mean. I think they were suppose to be more of an expendable infantry force than anything else. If they'd get rid of those spears and start using swords or something, maybe they could make a damn difference.