Secret Avengers - Part 1

[runawayboulder]

Well that's your failing in life.

Well, I tried to read it but I just couldn't get into it.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I never started it... don't plan to. That's my failing in life

 

[Dread]

Interview with Ellis

He's dropping the long form story arc for done in one super action stories. Stories will involve the Secret Empire and Dr. Doom tech from the sixties. I like everything I'm hearing. It's nice to see McKelvie on a major title.

To be honest, it doesn't surprise me. I think Brubaker left because he didn't want to do a crossover, and Spencer was willing to. Same as JMS split from THOR so he didn't have to do a SIEGE tie in, which Gillen was willing to do.

Ellis is at least a decent choice to replace Brubaker in terms of name power, but he's often been hit or miss with me on mainstream team books. It is funny how Deodato drew Beast as more like a Thundercat, and now McKelvie has him looking more like a snouted furry like Quietly used to draw. The "artist license" on Beast is fairly ridiculous. Compressed adventure stories sound good, although I don't think Ellis is bothering with a NEW "secret cabal" if he plans to use an established one like the Secret Empire.

Maybe he can have Steve Rogers and, like, ANY other hero sweep up Professor Power and Mad-Dog so poor Rikkie Barnes can stop being paranoid and move out of that abandoned slum.

 

[The Morningstar]

Ellis on Secret Avengers? Now i can start reading it again. I recently re-read Nextwave, obviously the tone is gonna be completely different to his SA, but he shows that he actually knows how to write a team book where all the characters get time to shine and proper characterisation/development. Unlike Mr Brubaker.

 

[Drz]

To be honest, it doesn't surprise me. I think Brubaker left because he didn't want to do a crossover, and Spencer was willing to. Same as JMS split from THOR so he didn't have to do a SIEGE tie in, which Gillen was willing to do.

Well it was also because of what Bendis wanted to do with Asgard itself that caused JMS to leave Marvel. Anyhow remember how Warren Ellis said he had to outcrazy Bendis when he learned the Moon Knight plans? Well we might get to see Ellis making Bendis' MK even crazier in the pages of Secret Avengers.

 

[venom892]

I was hoping any writer working on Moon Knight would completely ignore what Bendis's is doing.

 

[Dread]

Abnett & Lanning haven't made Moon Knight any wonkier than he usually is for his semi-frequent appearances in HEROES FOR HIRE. Although to be fair, no Bendis/Maleev MK issues have been released yet.

Well it was also because of what Bendis wanted to do with Asgard itself that caused JMS to leave Marvel. Anyhow remember how Warren Ellis said he had to outcrazy Bendis when he learned the Moon Knight plans? Well we might get to see Ellis making Bendis' MK even crazier in the pages of Secret Avengers.

This is why I hate Bendis' idea for Moon Knight. It exaggerates the worst detail of his character and it doesn't help him. Moon Knight is a pulp hero at heart, with a lot of room to play around with Egyptian avatars and all that. Instead, all anyone wants to exaggerate is the "he's Batman only crazy" angle, and that isn't an angle that has helped him or been successful in any fathomable way. The fact that Bendis is wanting to personally enhance the most self-defeating aspect of Moon Knight either proves his colossal ambitious faith in himself, or his arrogance.

FEAR ITSELF, BTW, is written by Matt Fraction, not Bendis.

A crossover tie-in likely involves more editorial influence, and at least more restrictions, than just writing your own comic. As I have said, aside for CIVIL WAR, Brubaker's CAPTAIN AMERICA has large been allowed to play in its own sandbox. True, Brubaker is willing to utilize whatever the status quo is at the time; CAPTAIN AMERICA REBORN occurred during Dark Reign and both Osborn and his Dark Avengers were involved in it. But it isn't the same as a DARK REIGN banner on the cover and appearing on a crossover's checklist. It could be argued that Brubaker's sales are such that a crossover isn't needed, but plenty of Top 30 sellers do crossovers. Now, I am not saying that not being as eager to write crossover tie-in issues is a BAD thing in itself. But I still find it curious when it seems obvious that certain writers are more comfortable doing them than others, and those others tend to be higher profile.

The question will be whether sales hold steady or tank during Nick Spencer's issues and whether Warren Ellis' name will allow them to rebound.

I haven't read Ellis in a long time. I bought NEXTWAVE #1 and didn't like it; I saw it as manic, but altogether heartless, humor that did nothing but deconstruct neglected characters in the Marvel Universe who I feared afterward would never be taken seriously again. By and large, I was proven correct. When was the last time you saw Machine Man or Elsa Bloodstone utilized in any manner that wasn't "let's do ADULT SWIM jokes with them"? A-List characters can survive endless parody, but B, C, and D listers become defined it it, and NEVER recover.

The irony is Elsa Bloodstone is a perfectly functional "monster hunter" heroine who could possibly either join some monster hunter team or possible be utilized as a crossover franchise character to try to bring in female fans and/or horror fans, the people who like "SUPERNATURAL" - y'know, offer someone else who can do that stuff besides Blade. After NEXTWAVE, that's impossible. And Machine Man can't walk into a room anymore without calling everyone "fleshy" and acting like a poor man's Freakazoid.

Ellis also wrote ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR after Mark Millar & Brian Bendis ended their six issue launch, and he was the guy responsible for Goat-Leg Dr. Doom (who Mark Millar undid immediately after returning to said book). Now, Ellis' run on UFF did have its moments, but the flaws were notable. So I am torn on his SA announcement. He is high profile enough that it is commercially a smart move; he certainly has more rep than Spencer for a title like that.

I still am amazed that Marvel insists on such wide "artistic license" with Beast over the years. Nobody will appreciate how drastic each artist's take on him is until one artist draws Wolverine with a mohawk and a shark fin, and the next with an afro and a horn, and the third with dreadlocks and extra claws, and passes it off as normal.

On the plus side, Ellis is clearly fond of Beast, who he included in all of his ASTONISHING X-MEN stories, and might have him do more than sit in a lab and rattle off exposition. Some of the preview art has Beast looking like he is flirting with Black Widow. It certainly has been a while since he flirted with anyone - he actually dated around in the 70's and 80's. Of course, he IS supposed to be seeing the emotionless Agent Brand, but Ellis wrote them, so I am certain he knows.

 

[Drz]

I was hoping any writer working on Moon Knight would completely ignore what Bendis's is doing.

Too much potential in the pitch, let it happen. With all the pessimist attitude towards the title, the bigger the positive surprise can be.

This is why I hate Bendis' idea for Moon Knight. It exaggerates the worst detail of his character and it doesn't help him. Moon Knight is a pulp hero at heart, with a lot of room to play around with Egyptian avatars and all that. Instead, all anyone wants to exaggerate is the "he's Batman only crazy" angle, and that isn't an angle that has helped him or been successful in any fathomable way. The fact that Bendis is wanting to personally enhance the most self-defeating aspect of Moon Knight either proves his colossal ambitious faith in himself, or his arrogance.

Well theres alot of fun to play with the inner personalities, you can see that in Ultimate Moon Knight when the inner personalities had to fight againts the Ronin persona he created, so what happens when his views of Steve (which will probably be either moral high father or ultimate captain america styled) clash with how he views Spidey? It's a goldmine of ideas.

FEAR ITSELF, BTW, is written by Matt Fraction, not Bendis.

You probably misread something in my post? I'm just saying Bendis ideas for Asgard was the last drop for JMS to leave Marvel.

Ellis also wrote ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR after Mark Millar & Brian Bendis ended their six issue launch, and he was the guy responsible for Goat-Leg Dr. Doom (who Mark Millar undid immediately after returning to said book). Now, Ellis' run on UFF did have its moments, but the flaws were notable. So I am torn on his SA announcement. He is high profile enough that it is commercially a smart move; he certainly has more rep than Spencer for a title like that.

Actually Millar didn't write that off, you can just blame or thank Greg Land. I believe the script detailed that he wore special shoes, but the goat legs we're supposingly there. I mean Millar didn't ignore the gas breath or spikes at all that Ennis wrote for Ultimate Doom.

 

[Dread]

Well theres alot of fun to play with the inner personalities, you can see that in Ultimate Moon Knight when the inner personalities had to fight againts the Ronin persona he created, so what happens when his views of Steve (which will probably be either moral high father or ultimate captain america styled) clash with how he views Spidey? It's a goldmine of ideas.

It is so extreme, it is beyond satire. Bendis' idea would literally turn Moon Knight into Two-Face, with extra personalities. Instead of flipping a coin, he rolls a six sided die. Today he's Specter, tomorrow he's Spider-Man, and in an hour he's Squirrel Girl. That might be hilarious in a spoof, but not a franchise run with a character who has to be taken seriously.

Marvel writes certain franchises into a corner because all writers do is the same plot over and over, and each take has to be more exaggerated than the last. With Daredevil, that plot is "DD's life is bleak and is destroyed, and he has to restart all over". Endless corners have been written into, which was why SHADOWLAND was a deck clearing exercise. With Moon Knight, it is "Moon Knight is crazy", so every writer has to make him crazier. Huston had him carving moons in perps' faces and tearing off people's faces and all that. While Moon Knight should never be the model of mental health, exaggerating his psychological issues to ANIMANIACS-PLAYED-STRAIGHT levels isn't the answer.

We are reading a bizarre era of Marvel where Slapstick has started to become grim and mature, and Moon Knight is the one acting like a cartoon.

Actually Millar didn't write that off, you can just blame or thank Greg Land. I believe the script detailed that he wore special shoes, but the goat legs we're supposingly there. I mean Millar didn't ignore the gas breath or spikes at all that Ennis wrote for Ultimate Doom.

Greg Land did something good? Guess because he had to trace Doom pictures with normal legs, it took care of itself.

 

[Drz]

Warren Ellis posted this excerpt from his second script for Secret Avengers.
On the basis of this, I’m looking forward to Marko being the big break out character of 2011. Hey, if Deadpool can do it, so can Marko!
Of course the script exerpt is all very well and good, but Warren’s not giving us art, or even the name of the artist. It’s no use, I’m going to have to have a go.

 

[Drz]

Not much discussion on Secret Avengers since they've been tie-in issues, i will say i really liked the Black Widow issue because it really putted a good argument on death and resurrections and how it effects the Marvel universe, but yeah it seems these tie-in issues are barely planned and don't really forward *anything* on the actual event. <_>

So anyhow Warren Ellis is here! Oh yeah! Secret Avengers #16 preview!

RUN THE MISSION! DON'T GET SEEN! SAVE THE WORLD!
A secret city buried one mile under American soil is discovered through the leakage of Von Doom radiation – a type of energy emitted only by time-travel devices. So the Secret Avengers head underground to a weird metropolis forgotten about for decades, because a time machine in the wrong hands is the worst kind of WMD imaginable. Master storyteller Warren Ellis begins his tenure on Earth's Mightiest Clandestine Super-Team, illustrated by Eagle Award-winning Jamie McKelvie.

And it looks awesome. Beast is being cocky towards Moon Knight, Black Widow the soviet girl loves the car and whatnot.

 

[runawayboulder]

Secret Avengers has been a pretty hard fail under Brubaker. Honestly, I enjoyed all of the Spencer issues - it was a refreshing change and pretty good as far as tie-ins go. Fear as with most events is going to disrupt all the Avenger titles so I wouldn't ever expect much from a tie in.

I take that back partly because Academy has been excelling during it's Fear tie-ins.

As far as Ellis goes - I'm 50/50 about checking out his run still. I may give it a shot but the first sign of something I don't like I'm gone and won't look back. The same goes for NA once DD joins.

 

[aussie_dog]

"Why isn't my gun the same as Roger's?"
"Because you're a lunatic"
t:

 

[runawayboulder]

I liked the first Ellis issue. Nobody is talking about it so I guess many dropped it. The one thing I'm a little sketchy on is Steve having Hank blow up and entire underground city. Steve really shouldn't assume that there weren't innocents down there since it was the size of Cincinnati.

 

[Drz]

Oh i really liked it too. I like how i was a single issue story and i liked how he played with the characters, especially Beast.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It was surprisingly good. I enjoyed it. I'll stick with the series through at least a few of Ellis' issues now, I think.

 

[cthulhu]

Yeah this Ellis' first issue was easily the best of the series so far. was going to drop this when brubaker left but I seen an advance preview of his first issue with Jamie McKelvie's art (love it) so still getting it. Probably will drop after the Ellis run tho - this was the only issue I have enjoyed of the series so far...

 

[runawayboulder]

I don't think it will make it past Ellis' run. He'll prob do a close to 12 issues before Marvel decides they want to relaunch it.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

More than anything else, I'm excited for Ellis because it looks like he'll be throwing some fun antagonists at the Secret Avengers. Brubaker started out okay with the Mars mission, then fell into the Bendis trap of putting an Avengers roster opposite s***ty, low-level opponents like ninjas and anonymous goons with guns. But Ellis comes along and the first thing we get is an underground city built on a giant f***ing time machine. Awesome.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I thought the first issue in his run was pretty awesome. I was a tad iffy on the ending, like many others, but at least there was some degree of acknowledgment and guilt about it. Great start for Ellis, wish the price would fall down to $2.99 at the beginning of this run as opposed to the middle of it, but whatevas.

 

[Drz]

#17 Preview! Damn gotta love Kev Walker's art.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Interesting. Not sure Walker's art fits the Avengers all that well, but he's still good. I was kind of hoping the mention of MI-13 in the solicitation meant we'd see Pete Wisdom or Captain Britain or somebody, but whatevs.

 

[KingMob]

Now that I'm taking the plunge and buying comics monthly again, I picked up Secret Avengers 16, mostly because of Ellis, partly because of Beast. Good stuff, fun issue. I really dug how Ellis handled Beast. Sooo glad it was a 'one and done' type story. That Bendis/Fraction/Decompression business drives me nuts. I'll probably continue with this as long as Ellis is writing.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

This book has become unreadable lately. Between Fear Itself causing massive delays and the stories being stand-alones, I miss the way this book was when it started.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Ellis' second issue was stupid. The Avengers fight a truck. And I thought Bendis' ninja fetish was bad.