Sensitive Memo From American Embassy In Iraq Details How Bad The Situation Is There

[Fred_Fury]

is it, like , extra warm in fantasy-lala-land?

Mr Sparkle: "hey I know how I'll defeat America! ILL POST NEWS ARTICLES ON SUPERHEROHYPE.COM! That'll get america out of there!"

dumbass.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Mr Sparkle: "hey I know how I'll defeat America! ILL POST NEWS ARTICLES ON SUPERHEROHYPE.COM! That'll get america out of there!"

dumbass.

get america out of where? perhaps you should post an article to get your head out of your ass, see if that works
and all my posts are extra ILL yo!

 

[Fred_Fury]

arguing about the war on the internet wont change **** so stop wasting your time. thats what im trying to say.

do you really think your opinion matters? well I got news for ya... IT DOESNT!

 

[Mr Sparkle]

arguing about the war on the internet wont change **** so stop wasting your time. thats what im trying to say.

do you really think your opinion matters? well I got news for ya... IT DOESNT!

well, actually, public opinion is SOOOOOOO important that administrations try to put positive spins on often hopeless situations to perpetuate their programs, ILL fated as they might be.

in other words. YES IT DOES!!!! :hillaryclinton:

 

[Fred_Fury]

well, actually, public opinion is SOOOOOOO important that administrations try to put positive spins on often hopeless situations to perpetuate their programs, ILL fated as they might be.

in other words. YES IT DOES!!!! :hillaryclinton:

yeah, it matters so much, thats why 6 years later you've gotten nowhere. ****

 

[Mr Sparkle]

yeah, it matters so much, thats why 6 years later you've gotten nowhere. ****

you're thinking of the Bush administration.

:bankshot:

 

[Superman]

I'll at least speak to this part, lazur. I can't speak for any others, but in my case, this letter isn't the end all piece of proof I needed to know that things over in Iraq are very bad. It's more of a cumulative effect from all the things I have seen, read, and heard (including from my friends in the armed services who have either been over there or are still in country). One letter doesn't amount to much, but when added to everthing else it does contribute to my overall opinion of the situation over there.

jag

That's pretty much it for alot of people, Myself included.

 

[sinewave]

You're seriously expecting everything to be better DURING a wartime situation? I think the true measure of success will be what happens AFTER the war has been fought. Will the country be better off or worse off THEN? Wait and see.

I can't believe people actually expect things to be better DURING a war. These things don't happen over night, instantaneously, as we'd all very much like.

I seem to recall Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz and all those guys claiming we'd be welcomed as liberators and that it was "Mission Accomplished" once Saddam was ousted. We were also told that the insurgency was only going to last about six months. We shouldn't even be in a war with Iraq now, according to the U.S. government, so all this discussion is moot. The fact is, this invasion was poorly planned and executed by our government and now the Iraqi citizens are the ones having to suffer because of our mistakes.

Then you'd have to carve up the country into three sections, which would ultimately encourage civil war between three factions. Bad idea.

Not necessarily. Besides, they're already headed for a civil war. Why not take out all the political and religious backstabbing and bickering between the different religious groups and let them take care of their own people. It seems pretty obvious to me that if they've been fighting between themselves for thousands of years they're never going to have true political harmony until they all get what they want.

It was still far worse under Suddam. And the country still is AT WAR.

I'm not so sure they had more violence on a daily basis when Saddam was in charge. He ruled with an iron fist and if people started stirring up trouble he squashed them. Also, I doubt he would have allowed al Qaeda to infiltrate the country and cause this much trouble because he was more of a secular person and didn't like violent fundamentalist organizations.

If I had to guess, I'd say the amount of human tragedy was far greater under Saddam. It just stands to reason that that kind of stuff runs rampant in dictatorial societies where the "law" can do whatever the hell it wants to anyone it wants.

There might have been torture and kidnappings and beheadings and stuff like that, but they didn't have to tolerate suicide bombings on a daily basis. I think the violence has been ratcheted up quite a bit right now. I know, I know, they're still "AT WAR". Who started that war again?

This is so subjective, it's not even worth discussing. Some neighborhoods now have electricity that haven't had it in 20 or more years. Other neighborhoods that had it before now don't. I'm not sure there's a way to measure on a grand scale in percentages, but if I had to guess, I'd say that the RAW percentage of people who have power now as compared to who had it before under Saddam is greater.

Neighborhoods are being blown up by bombs from coalition forces, insurgent and al Qaeda. I can gaurantee there wasn't this much urban destruction under Saddam. Of course you're going to say they had it worse under Saddam, you think this war is necessary and all this negative stuff is made up by the liberal media to undermine the Bush administration and the war effort. It's all conjecture unless you can provide some evidence. This memo may not be irrefutable proof of what's happening over there, but it's a pretty good insider's view of what it's really like there. I trust it more than what the administration tells us it's like over there. They've lied to us enough to where I don't trust them and the majority of U.S citizens see it the same way.

You base that off of one memo? LOL, please. You can't say that for sure, just as someone can't say the contrary for sure. But what MAKES SENSE is that there'd be less harassment toward women given the overwhelming presence of Western forces (and therefore culture). But please, if you have evidence demonstrating that women are actually treated worse now than they were under Saddam (despite how laughable that sounds), please provide it. Until then, you're guesses are nothing more than that ... UNeducated guesses.

So, I should take your word over a memo from the U.S. Embassy in Iraq? Unless you can provide some repudible information to counter this memo you're just making things up to fit your view of what's going on over there. Why would I trust that?

Yeah, so I guess that means no one over there should wear jeans? Or does it mean that everyone who doesn't like others who wear jeans should be arrested 100% of the time? What, exactly, is the big deal here? We have more idiotic problems in THIS country on a much larger scale, but you don't see society collapsing do you? Point is, people in large numbers can be stupid. That's all this is. What's next, you blaming the U.S. military (or government, pick one) because a movement erupts over there in which they declare a jihad against anyone who owns a house cat? Wtf? Are you asking us to regulate thought over there?

Did I say no one should wear jeans? Please, don't attempt to twist my words. I'm just responding to what was said in the memo, so please, don't try and muddy this debate with inaccuracies and illogical assumptions.

War is hell.

You know, I'm getting pretty sick of this excuse anytime someone raises concern over civilian deaths in this war. If we hadn't have gone over there in the first place most of these people would still be alive and America's image would not be as tarnished. At the very least, they could have put some more planning into it and proved themselves to be, oh I don't know, competent?!? People are loosing their lives because of the Bush administration's mistakes, so please, spare the tired "War is hell" bit. It's insulting and lazy.

Of course . As I said before, good news doesn't sell. You listen to the bad news all day long, so of COURSE this sounds similar to that. You will believe the news that alligns itself with your own ideological beliefs. This is how humans, in all of their short-sighted feebleness, work. Whatever can substantiate your already strong feelings about something or someone, you, just like everyone else (well most people anyway), will eat it up and take it as Gospel.

So, they should just sugarcoat everything and not tell us what's really happening over there? I've seen stories of good things happening in Iraq, but it just so happens that the bad stuff greatly outweighs the good. That's just the way it is.

 

[bored]

yes thats right liberals, you can defeat america by reading news articles

when will you people learn your opinion on the war wont change anything?

Not wasting any time, I see. Well then, Fred, let's get to business. Where does 'defeating America' come in, at all?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Not wasting any time, I see. Well then, Fred, let's get to business. Where does 'defeating America' come in, at all?

wouldn't playing into his dellusion be funner for us all?

 

[sinewave]

yeah, it matters so much, thats why 6 years later you've gotten nowhere. ****

May I ask you why you even care that we're discussing the war on a chat board if it doesn't matter? I started this thread because I thought the article and memo were interesting and I wanted to share it with everyone. Sorry, I know it's not as important as a discussion about how hot Jessica Alba is or how kickass Anime is, but I enjoy these little discussions on piddly topics such as a war that's cost the lives of 2500 U.S. soldiers, 38,000+ Iraqi civilians and about $300 billion of American tax payer's money. Yeah, why would we want to discuss that?

 

[bored]

You weren't around for Fred Fury, were you, Sinewave? This was his shtick for a time, back around the last presidential election.

 

[Fred_Fury]

May I ask you why you even care that we're discussing the war on a chat board if it doesn't matter?

I dont care, that why I just come in here and talk **** to you.

 

[sinewave]

You weren't around for Fred Fury, were you, Sinewave? This was his shtick for a time, back around the last presidential election.

Nope, I wasn't. Oh well, a troll's a troll. I'm sure he's no different than, say, cass.

 

[sinewave]

I dont care, that why I just come in here and talk **** to you.

Nice. So, you're what 12?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

I dont care, that why I just come in here and talk **** to you.

that why?

sho nuff be reeson for me!

 

[bored]

Nope, I wasn't. Oh well, a troll's a troll. I'm sure he's no different than, say, cass.

Not really, no.

 

[Fred_Fury]

that why?

sho nuff be reeson for me!

REEEMMMIIIIIXXXXX

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Nope, I wasn't. Oh well, a troll's a troll. I'm sure he's no different than, say, cass.

I always picture Mamma cass angrily typing conservative slogans.

it picks me up so.

 

[bored]

Did we ever figure cass's gender out?

 

[sinewave]

I always picture Mamma cass angrily typing conservative slogans.

it picks me up so.

is there a ham sandwich involved in that visualization?

 

[sinewave]

Did we ever figure cass's gender out?

nope. i'm guessing it's a guy, because i really hope there's not a woman on earth who would act like that.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

is there a ham sandwich involved in that visualization?

she chokes on it.


and there's a ham sandwish in another room.

 

[sinewave]

she chokes on it.


and there's a ham sandwish in another room.

yeah, that sounds about right to me.

 

[Emrys]

yes thats right liberals, you can defeat america by reading news articles

when will you people learn your opinion on the war wont change anything?

When will you people learn that you lose vote after vote with every citizen who reads stuff like that and gets disenchanted. The pen is mightier than the sword. It always has been and always will be.