"Shear Strength" Season 2: Episode 17 Discussion Thread

[Venom 1988]

It’s New Year’s Eve, and all is not right with world. The MASTER PLANNER and his henchmen are literally planning to take over the world! A highly motivated SPIDER-MAN takes the fight to the Planner’s secret lair. But once he gets there, can he survive?

Who is the Master Planner!?

Though it should be obvious to most of us...

Discuss!

 

[stillanerd]

Here's my wild guess after seeing the most recent episode:

Spoiler

It's the Artificial Intelligence in Doc Ock's own robotic arms. After all, Otto is apparently is "cured" of being Doctor Octopus and his arms, apparently, act independently. Also we know that Doc Ock's arms worked in much the same way as they did in Spider-Man 2, right down to the malfunctioned inhibitor chip and changing Otto's personality. So, my guess is that Doc Ock, knowing of the possibility he might get captured, copied this "Doc Ock" personality into a computer and dubbed it "the Master Planner" so that in case he ever got caught again, his plans would still carry on. And, if need be, the "Master Planner" would download itself into Otto brain once the arms reattch themselves to him.

 

[LEGO Spidey]

How wicked would it be if, after recreating that classic moment from the comics when Spidey lifts the pile of debris off himself with some effort, Master Planner's henchmen who he defeats while barely standing up are actually the new Sinister Six in this show? They're still at large after all... I'd love to see something like that.

 

[The Joker]

The Master Planner will be Doctor Octopus himself in all his glory, IMO.

Spoiler

That ending in the latest episode confirmed that. It's like the Harry being Goblin tactic they did in season one. They're trying to divert the regular viewers by giving them a smoke screen

Us loyal Spidey fans know who the real Green Goblin is, and who The Master Planner was. But not everyone who watches this show does. Alot of them probably never even read a Spider-Man comic.

Prepare to see that, folks!

Btw, stillanerd, Ock has been cured of being Doctor Octopus? Did you really believe that? As the doctor said, his progress has been "nothing short of amazing". It's all a red herring.

 

[November Rain]

or maybe not...

I'm going left field and saying its mrs osborn...or potential professor miles warren...

 

[Gallagher]

Mrs Osborn is the Goblin (get ready for a fan backlash if that's true).

Ock is the Planner as per the comics.

That's my guesses

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

This epsiode sounds like it's going to kick butt! The Master Planner's lair? I smell a homage to the comics.

 

[AIRWOLF]

The Master Planner will be Doctor Octopus himself in all his glory, IMO.

Spoiler

That ending in the latest episode confirmed that. It's like the Harry being Goblin tactic they did in season one. They're trying to divert the regular viewers by giving them a smoke screen

Us loyal Spidey fans know who the real Green Goblin is, and who The Master Planner was. But not everyone who watches this show does. Alot of them probably never even read a Spider-Man comic.

Prepare to see that, folks!

Btw, stillanerd, I don't know where you came up with half of your theorey. Ock has been cured of being Doctor Octopus? Did you really believe that? As the doctor said, his progress has been "nothing short of amazing". It's all a red herring.

Hey hi Joker, nice to see you after a such a long time. I agree with you, Ock is just pretending so no one would suspect him. Just one more week til we find out. However, StillaNerd does have a good theory.

 

[The Joker]

Hey hi Joker, nice to see you after a such a long time. I agree with you, Ock is just pretending so no one would suspect him. Just one more week til we find out. However, StillaNerd does have a good theory.

Hey man, nice to see you, too

I don't know, the theorey of A.I. tentacles and a Master Planner persona embedded into a computer sounds completely off. These guys are very old school with their stories. Ock playing the reformed goody goody sounds alot more like his style. Ock is a manipulator.

Not saying stillanerd is wrong, as I don't know for certain what will happen. But I think it's highly unlikely that's how it will happen.

 

[LightningFlash]

I'm going to have a bogus theory and say it's Aunt May-Carnage.

Cletus was a smoke screen.

 

[Ratcrawler]

I still say AILF May's the Master Planner.... =__=

 

[LightningFlash]

With the carnage symbiote. May needs some powers now.

 

[stillanerd]

Btw, stillanerd, Ock has been cured of being Doctor Octopus? Did you really believe that? As the doctor said, his progress has been "nothing short of amazing". It's all a red herring.

Oh, the possibility did cross my mind at first--until

Spoiler

his tentacles showed up and broke him out of Ravencroft. Now granted, I know that the classical depiction of Doc Ock is that he is in mental command of his tentacles even if they are detached and are at great distances, and maybe this is the case here. However, there's a couple of things to remember.

First of all, in this show, Otto already had mental control of his tenacles even before he became "Doctor Octopus," as it was heavily implied that they work on a similar principle as the tentacles did in Spider-Man 2--that they had redimentary AI that he could mentally communicate with in order to perform delicate operations. And, like Spider-Man 2, the inhibitor chip short circuited. It explains how a meek, little toady like Otto could also suddenly become an aggressive, unhinbited, and manipulative criminal mastermind--because the AI began to influence his behavior. Since that personality, then, is computer generated, why not make a back-up copy of that personality? It would also explain why Doc Ock recovery was so "amazing." Because, if the tentacles had been removed again and something was done to shut down the AI in the harness, then Otto could, concievably, revert to his old personality rather quickly.

Also, there's precedence in the actual comics. During the time Doc Ock was dead, the female Doc Ock was in league with something called the Master Programmer, which turned out to be Doc Ock own personality downloaded into a computer. Weisman could use the same trick here.

Besides, just as Weisman knows there are non comic book readers watching the series, he also knows that more knowledgable Spider-Man fans do as well. Hence why twists like the Big Man actually being Tombstone, or Montana becoming the Shocker, or having the Green Goblin be seemingly revealed as Harry rather than Norman Osborn. I expect just as much of a twist in this case, although there certainly is the possibility it won't be exactly like I've theorized.

 

[The Joker]

Oh, the possibility did cross my mind at first--until

Spoiler

his tentacles showed up and broke him out of Ravencroft. Now granted, I know that the classical depiction of Doc Ock is that he is in mental command of his tentacles even if they are detached and are at great distances, and maybe this is the case here. However, there's a couple of things to remember.

First of all, in this show, Otto already had mental control of his tenacles even before he became "Doctor Octopus," as it was heavily implied that they work on a similar principle as the tentacles did in Spider-Man 2--that they had redimentary AI that he could mentally communicate with in order to perform delicate operations. And, like Spider-Man 2, the inhibitor chip short circuited. It explains how a meek, little toady like Otto could also suddenly become an aggressive, unhinbited, and manipulative criminal mastermind--because the AI began to influence his behavior. Since that personality, then, is computer generated, why not make a back-up copy of that personality? It would also explain why Doc Ock recovery was so "amazing." Because, if the tentacles had been removed again and something was done to shut down the AI in the harness, then Otto could, concievably, revert to his old personality rather quickly.

Also, there's precedence in the actual comics. During the time Doc Ock was dead, the female Doc Ock was in league with something called the Master Programmer, which turned out to be Doc Ock own personality downloaded into a computer. Weisman could use the same trick here.

Besides, just as Weisman knows there are non comic book readers watching the series, he also knows that more knowledgable Spider-Man fans do as well. Hence why twists like the Big Man actually being Tombstone, or Montana becoming the Shocker, or having the Green Goblin be seemingly revealed as Harry rather than Norman Osborn. I expect just as much of a twist in this case, although there certainly is the possibility it won't be exactly like I've theorized.

Spoiler

I think you misinterpreted how Ock's tentacles work in this cartoon. First of all, where were we told he had an inhibitor chip? Second, where were we told the tentacles are A.I.? They never did anything independantly without Otto's command.

Also, if you remember Doc Ock's accident scene, just prior to it, we were shown he has a dark/evil side when he had a vision of impaling Norman with his tentacles when Norman was berating him. Something which was further compounded when Ock awoke after his accident, heard Osborn's voice, and was filled with rage as he remembered Norman calling him weak. The accident was the push he needed to cross the line and embrace that dark evil side of his.

Not to mention he was bombarded with some kind of radiation. We saw his whole skeleton, which in the comics is what gave him the brain damage. There was no mention of A.I. tentacles, inhibitor chips or anything like that.

Heck, in first episode he was seeking a permanent power source for his tentacles. If they were A.I. like the movie then they'd be functioning independantly.

I do know about the Master Programmer storyline, but that stems from the Clone Saga era. Not something I'd say these guys are remotely touching upon. Not for a long time yet anyway. They seem to be very much into Stan Lee's era. I doubt they're touching any of the tripe from the Clone Saga. The Master Programmer was part of the whole resurrection of Ock, when they were retconning his death which was also part of the Clone Saga.

 

[stillanerd]

Spoiler

I think you misinterpreted how Ock's tentacles work in this cartoon. First of all, where were we told he had an inhibitor chip? Second, where were we told the tentacles are A.I.? They never did anything independantly without Otto's command.

Also, if you remember Doc Ock's accident scene, just prior to it, we were shown he has a dark/evil side when he had a vision of impaling Norman with his tentacles when Norman was berating him. Something which was further compounded when Ock awoke after his accident, heard Osborn's voice, and was filled with rage as he remembered Norman calling him weak. The accident was the push he needed to cross the line and embrace that dark evil side of his.

Not to mention he was bombarded with some kind of radiation. We saw his whole skeleton, which in the comics is what gave him the brain damage. There was no mention of A.I. tentacles, inhibitor chips or anything like that.

Heck, in first episode he was seeking a permanent power source for his tentacles. If they were A.I. like the movie then they'd be functioning independantly.

I do know about the Master Programmer storyline, but that stems from the Clone Saga era. Not something I'd say these guys are remotely touching upon. Not for a long time yet anyway. They seem to be very much into Stan Lee's era. I doubt they're touching any of the tripe from the Clone Saga. The Master Programmer was part of the whole resurrection of Ock, when they were retconning his death which was also part of the Clone Saga.

I'm not discounting what you say about Doc Ock's transformation, however:

Spoiler

You have to remember that even though Otto had a dark side prior to his accident, he never acted on it. Why? Because he wanted to be "good" and being "good" in his mind was always doing what he was told, no matter what abuse he took. So, why, after his accident, would he have such a drastic personality shift? Granted, you could say the accident damaged his mind and made him go over the edge into madness, but certainly not that quick.

Secondly, while the inhibitor chip or how the arms actually work is not mentioned, we do see the inhibitor chip. If you remember during the episode where Otto becomes Doc Ock, it is clearly and promentantly seen where the harness ends at the base of his neck, just like it does in Spider-Man 2. The camera even zooms in on it and we see it melt, causing the reaction throughout the rest of his body. Yes, the harness in this cartoon does require a battery pack, but that could just power the arms not necessarily the software and programming that runs it. Perhaps it's not exactly like it is in Spider-Man 2, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar. After all, the cartoon also adapted the first movie's version of the origin in the "Persona" episode where Peter had his flashbacks.

 

[The Joker]

I'm not discounting what you say about Doc Ock's transformation, however:

Spoiler

You have to remember that even though Otto had a dark side prior to his accident, he never acted on it. Why? Because he wanted to be "good" and being "good" in his mind was always doing what he was told, no matter what abuse he took. So, why, after his accident, would he have such a drastic personality shift? Granted, you could say the accident damaged his mind and made him go over the edge into madness, but certainly not that quick.

Secondly, while the inhibitor chip or how the arms actually work is not mentioned, we do see the inhibitor chip. If you remember during the episode where Otto becomes Doc Ock, it is clearly and promentantly seen where the harness ends at the base of his neck, just like it does in Spider-Man 2. The camera even zooms in on it and we see it melt, causing the reaction throughout the rest of his body. Yes, the harness in this cartoon does require a battery pack, but that could just power the arms not necessarily the software and programming that runs it. Perhaps it's not exactly like it is in Spider-Man 2, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar. After all, the cartoon also adapted the first movie's version of the origin in the "Persona" episode where Peter had his flashbacks.

Spoiler

Ock had a dark side in the comic books, too, prior to his accident. But he never acted upon that either. Heck, he fell in love and got engaged to a really nice girl once. Like Norman, his accident removed his inhibitions.

If those violent and evil tendencies are already there, why shouldn't they be released so quickly in the wake of severe brain trauma? It's only releasing something that was already there, but never acted upon. It's like so many of the world's infamous serial killers, whom friends, neighbours, family members etc describe as being so nice, friendly, and normal, and being shocked to discover the dark side what lay beneath.

Now about this inhibitor chip. You see a little metal strip on top of his tentacles, and you assume it's an inhibitor chip? If it was that, or anything of some great significance with regard to the operation of his tentacles, it would have been mentioned. Like the power source he required. I think it was simply a little nod to SM-2. There's been several little nods to the movies in this cartoon.

As for the A.I., if his tentacles had A.I. don't you think we'd have seen him converse with them by now? Don't you think we'd have got some inkling that they're sentient? Why didn't they react to protect Ock when Symbiote Spidey was going to kill him with one of his own tentacle claws?

Sorry man, I just don't buy it. There's just nothing to support the A.I. theorey. And I'm glad. As much as I love Ock in SM-2, I am glad to have an evil Doc Ock not held back by any constraints, and just acting on his own evil nature. The Spidey movies water the villains down too much, IMO. It's great to see them in full force in this cartoon.

 

[Pep]

If Doc Ock's tetacles had an inhibitor chip, I am certain that they would've explained it in the cartoon. The impression I got was that the "chip" on the tentacles simply served as the link to his spinal cord. That's the part that essentially melded onto his body, presumably causing his mental instability. Absolutely no precedent has been established for the tentacles utilizing any kind of AI. Even if there had been, it would still come across as completely silly.

Also, just so everyone knows, SSM is going to be pre-empted on Teletoon next week. It might be airing in one of those European countries apparently showing it, though.

 

[Webhead2006]

yea i heard it might be prempted on teletoon this coming weekend. As for master planner i do hope they stick to old school and have it actually be doc ock, though with the twists with tombstone, and harry and i willing to be open to a different thing like the arms and a program of doc ock.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I wonder what kind of surprise ending (if there is one) will be in this episode.

 

[TheAQU4M4N]

i hope they do a big reveal at the end of this arc like they did with The Big Man at season 1.

 

[Webhead2006]

me to

 

[Ratcrawler]

Like how they're gonna reveal that Sally Avril was uncle Ben's actual killer? Whoops! sPoiler alert!

 

[LightningFlash]

So Sam Raimi is running this series now?

 

[russttrombone]

So Sam Raimi is running this series now?

Lets hope not. I like having a spiderman world that doesn't suck.

(puts on eyeliner and dances away)

 

[Web-Head408]

Also, just so everyone knows, SSM is going to be pre-empted on Teletoon next week. It might be airing in one of those European countries apparently showing it, though.

That'd mean a different language though, right?