Should the US pull out of the Middle East entirely?

[sinewave]

What has Israel done for us, other than give us Natalie Portman?

oy guhvalt, such a tuchas on that one!

 

[Darthphere]

oy guhvalt, such a tuchas on that one!

Da chutzpah on this one, oy!

 

[hippie_hunter]

Pretty much. I dont know we put a lot of money and hardware into something, I expect something in return.


And you didnt answer my question.

They give us matzah and those kick ass little beanie hats.

 

[Superman79]

What has Israel done for us, other than give us Natalie Portman?

Is that not enough ????

Seroiusly though, I think there is more to it than just he Isreal thing. Not to say that is not a big part.

As far as our involvement everywhere in the world, we can't win (in opinion that is) Look at Somalia...we got involved to try and help and we were told to get the F*** out. So we did. Same kind of crap (actually worse) happened in Rowanda not long after and we sat back and let it happen because we were afraid people would be pissed at us again. Instead they got pissed because we DIDN't get involved. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

 

[lazur]

Pretty much. I dont know we put a lot of money and hardware into something, I expect something in return.


And you didnt answer my question.

Hmm, what have they done for US or what have they done for the WORLD? I could care less about what they've done for US. But for the world, let's see - they're not into killing innocent people over religion and declaring jihads against people with whom they disagree, and they believe in democracy. The only action they really take is defensive in nature, or in retaliation for offensive actions taken against them.

Good enough for me. Support them all the way.

But the question for you is - why should we allow the bad guys to dictate our actions? Are you saying that if, for whatever reason, some Middle Eastern country just decided to start attacking Canada, we should cease being an ally to Canada for fear of a conflict?

What the hell kind of foreign policy is that? Oh, we'll be your friend ... unless someone punches you in the face, then we're gone. Wtf? When someone punches your friend in the face is THE time to be a friend.

I wonder, do you conduct yourself in real life the same way? You're someone's friend unless they get attacked, and then you run away instead of defending your friend?

 

[sinewave]

They give us matzah and those kick ass little beanie hats.

don't forget the dradle and those chocolate coins!

 

[Darthphere]

Hmm, what have they done for US or what have they done for the WORLD? I could care less about what they've done for US. But for the world, let's see - they're not into killing innocent people over religion and declaring jihads against people with whom they disagree, and they believe in democracy. The only action they really take is defensive in nature, or in retaliation for offensive actions taken against them.

Good enough for me. Support them all the way.

In other words, for the billions we spend on Israel, we get nothing back. Good job avoiding a direct answer to a direct question.

But the question for you is - why should we allow the bad guys to dictate our actions? Are you saying that if, for whatever reason, some Middle Eastern country just decided to start attacking Canada, we should cease being an ally to Canada for fear of a conflict?

I dont think we should stop being allies with Israel or any country. My post started off as a semi-joke in the first place, but you got offended by it so I ran with it. The way I see it, if it came down that the Middle Easter arab terrorist countries and cells told the US, if you stop allying yourself with Israel, we will declare peace in the middle east, I see nothing bad in that. Of course the moment violence erupts that agreement would be void.

 

[hippie_hunter]

don't forget the dradle and those chocolate coins!

How the hell could I forget those

 

[lazur]

In other words, for the billions we spend on Israel, we get nothing back. Good job avoiding a direct answer to a direct question.




I dont think we should stop being allies with Israel or any country. My post started off as a semi-joke in the first place, but you got offended by it so I ran with it. The way I see it, if it came down that the Middle Easter arab terrorist countries and cells told the US, if you stop allying yourself with Israel, we will declare peace in the middle east, I see nothing bad in that. Of course the moment violence erupts that agreement would be void.

My screen name is lazur - not lazru.

 

[Darthphere]

My screen name is lazur - not lazru.

It is now.

 

[Fred_Fury]

Why? Terrorists don't attack because they "hate freedom" or want our women to cover their skin. They attack us because of our involvement with Israel.

Well guess what? We're the USA, we can be involved with whoever the **** we want, and if the terrorists dont like it, tough ****. We can do what we want, when we want, and if the terrorists want to fly planes into our buildings because of it, we'll ****ing invade and destroy their safe havens - HOW ABOUT THAT ?

 

[Darthphere]

Well guess what? We're the USA, we can be involved with whoever the **** we want, and if the terrorists dont like it, tough ****. We can do what we want, went we want, and if the terrorists want to fly planes into our buildings because of it, we'll ****ing invade and destroy their safe havens - HOW ABOUT THAT ?

LOL! Awesome.

 

[Slipknot]

Well guess what? We're the USA, we can be involved with whoever the **** we want, and if the terrorists dont like it, tough ****. We can do what we want, went we want, and if the terrorists want to fly planes into our buildings because of it, we'll ****ing invade and destroy their safe havens - HOW ABOUT THAT ?

...

 

[lazur]

Well guess what? We're the USA, we can be involved with whoever the **** we want, and if the terrorists dont like it, tough ****. We can do what we want, went we want, and if the terrorists want to fly planes into our buildings because of it, we'll ****ing invade and destroy their safe havens - HOW ABOUT THAT ?

America **** yeah! Out to save the mother****ing day yeah!

 

[Darthphere]

Wow, this is getting pathetic.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

The Middle East shouldn't trust the U.S. when it says it'll pull out 'cause a) The U.S. might like it there so much that it won't actually pull out and b) it may not pull out soon enough.
There's also the problem of pre-occupation and pre-imperialism.

 

[sinewave]

Well guess what? We're the USA, we can be involved with whoever the **** we want, and if the terrorists dont like it, tough ****. We can do what we want, when we want, and if the terrorists want to fly planes into our buildings because of it, we'll ****ing invade and destroy their safe havens - HOW ABOUT THAT ?

Fred_Fury

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Well guess what? We're the USA, we can be involved with whoever the **** we want, and if the terrorists dont like it, tough ****. We can do what we want, when we want, and if the terrorists want to fly planes into our buildings because of it, we'll ****ing invade and destroy their safe havens - HOW ABOUT THAT ?

I think the terrorists agree with you LOL

 

[Bad Superman]

Yes. The troops should come back home.

 

[Prognosticator]

I think a lot of things would go to **** if the U.S. pulls out, and i'm not just talking about oversees. I get that exiting Iraq in a timely manner will support us well in terms of being able to fund more federal programs locally. But turning a blind eye on Israel isn't a wise idea in the least bit...That's practically bending over to Terrorist demands.

 

[Mrh7448]

There's a hell of a lot going on in the middle east then just animosity towards Israel. Even Iraq is at a boiling point with the US troops there, they've been on the verge of civil war.

Even taking Israel out of the picture would not stop the fighting, hatred and terrorism that exists in the middle east.

 

[CrAzYMoFo]

Sorry if I'm bumping a useless thread but... oh well...

Palestine only consists of the Palestinian territories. And the Israeli Army is very well equiped enough to defend itself it has survived countless invasions from multiple nations at the same time since the day it was created. The Israeli government pulled out of the Gaza Stip and soon to be West Bank because they are sick of the violence and they know that the Palestinians won't back down. Not to get the world's backing. If that were the case they wouldn't be doing it unilaterally. In my opinion Jerusalem should become an international city that is independent of both the Israelis and the Palestinians. Because it is not only the holiest city in Judaism, it is also a holy city for Islam and Christianity.

I can see where you're coming from, but the reason I don't agree with you is because Hamas has repeatedly said they would not stop at Gaza. The logical reason that I see Israel giving up Gaza Strip, is to not only end the violence, but to say that the line is drawn here.

Osama bin Laden and many other Arabs hate the United States and other Western nations because of how the West has taken advantage of the Middle East for years. The Europeans colonized the Middle East after World War I after promising that they would become independent against the Ottoman Turks. The United States and Europe helped to create Israel in what is in their eyes "Muslim soil." The United States remained in holy Muslim soil of Saudi Arabia after they pushed Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait. That is why many Arabs hate the West and want absolutely nothing to do with it.

But why do they hate our involvement? Because we are implanting our own cultural ideas into theirs when we do, and they don't like that. Now I know that they have good reason not to like that, but nontheless, they don't like the Western culture. That is greatly changing, especially in Iran where the youth have been caught secretly listenening to Western music etc. and are not as fundamental as their parents.

Canada basically has the same culture as the United States, they're practically America Jr. But China, the European Union, the United Nations, and the rest of the G8 nations do wield great amounts of influence around the world, just like the United States.

Although Canada has a similar culture, like you said, they do not wield great power around the world. About China and the other European nations, most European nations have Western Culture, and radical fundamentalists have been gunning for them as well. I'm unsure if China has great influence in the Middle East, but I'd doubt it. Most of their influence is as a result of having such a strong economic relationship with us... a little too strong imo.

 

[Saint]

Well guess what? We're the USA, we can be involved with whoever the **** we want, and if the terrorists dont like it, tough ****. We can do what we want, when we want

Yeah, I remember another government that was pretty determined to do what they wanted, when they wanted, regardless of treaties they had signed or international laws. They wanted to invade Poland, so they did.

Oh right, that was the Nazis.

No country gets to do whatever it pleases, regardless of it's name or how many nuclear bombs it can use to bully everybody else into submission. I would never defend the actions of terrorists; I only oppose the deluded belief that America should be afforded special privleges simply because it's America.

 

[Backdrifter]

Hmm, what have they done for US or what have they done for the WORLD? I could care less about what they've done for US. But for the world, let's see - they're not into killing innocent people over religion and declaring jihads against people with whom they disagree, and they believe in democracy. The only action they really take is defensive in nature, or in retaliation for offensive actions taken against them.

Good enough for me. Support them all the way.

But the question for you is - why should we allow the bad guys to dictate our actions? Are you saying that if, for whatever reason, some Middle Eastern country just decided to start attacking Canada, we should cease being an ally to Canada for fear of a conflict?

What the hell kind of foreign policy is that? Oh, we'll be your friend ... unless someone punches you in the face, then we're gone. Wtf? When someone punches your friend in the face is THE time to be a friend.

I wonder, do you conduct yourself in real life the same way? You're someone's friend unless they get attacked, and then you run away instead of defending your friend?

lol. who are you to declare who is innocent and who is not? who is anybody to say that another deserves death? this goes for both sides... if you really believed in peace you would not agree with any of them and actually advocate for PEACE. Maybe you need a definition of what peace is?

peace ([FONT=verdana,sans-serif] P [/FONT]) Pronunciation Key (p

s)
n.

1. The absence of war or other hostilities.
2. An agreement or a treaty to end hostilities.
3. Freedom from quarrels and disagreement; harmonious relations: roommates living in peace with each other.
4. Public security and order: was arrested for disturbing the peace.
5. Inner contentment; serenity: peace of mind.

The universe is so big and our lives too short to fight over a religion. And if either of these people really truely believed in what they say they would be sharing the land. This is more of a vendetta and going back to what is famaliar to them. Really it is old and it needs to stop. And, the US needs to quit oil mongering while pretending to fight "terrorism." It is so clear that we are in the beginning stages of an energy war. It's time to throw every resource we can at researching alternative energy before the whole world is full of craters. This polarized America is a joke and the people who founded this country would be appalled at the mess we are in right now. Everyone needs to throw down their political affiliation and take a real long, hard objective look at the world and the country you live in. Because, frankly its a ****ing mess. We are intelligent creatues. Fully aware of ourselves,the world and the universe we live in. There is NO excuse for war, poverty and racism. We have the means and smarts to eradicate all of them. It all comes down to greed. It's disgusting. We all should be ashamed of ourselves. All of us.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I've always been brought up to know that ignoring a problem only allows it to come back later and bite you.

Correct, but the "problem" is American imperialism, dependence on foreign oil and blind, superstitious support for God's "chosen people".