Should there be more coordination between the Marvel televsion and film units

[BoredGuy]

I could do without most of the SHIELD characters
But Coulson has to be there
and Ghost Rider would be sweet

but the Defenders are very nearly necessary, I'll be super disappointed if they don't make some brief appearance

In an ideal world...ideally tho... The Defenders and the Secret Warriors (And I guess the Inhumans now too) would all show up in brief looks at different parts of the world and how they're dealing with the threat of Thanos

but yeah, Coulson deserves to show back up, have a triumphant return to the films, and help save the day
it would round out the trilogy, he died for them to unite, now he lives again to save their asses

 

[DrCosmic]

That should give you even more reason to want the characters from AOS to show up in Infinity War. Given the strong likelihood that the show will be wrapped up by the film's release date, Deathlok, Melter, Quake and Yo Yo would make excellent cannon fodder.

You know how to talk to people. You almost got me.

Reflecton on AoS really brings me back to the only legitimate reason these crossovers can't happen: avoiding cross promotion. If I see a bunch of AoS characters biting in IW, then I feel like I might want to go watch AoS to fully appreciate those events, in the same way I want to back and watch Phase I if Avengers was my first MCU film. But a huge chunk of the audience for Avengers is too young for the Defenders shows, and no one should ever feel compelled to watch the whole of AoS ever, THAT would be as disappointing for some as their exclusion would be for others.

Quake's okay-ish though. I wouldn't mind if she joined the Secret Avengers as though she were a new character.

Coulson coming back alive in IW grates me in ways I'm not sure I can elaborate on.

 

[BoredGuy]

Well give it a shot, cuz I don't understand that at all

the man was the glue that held phase 1 together, the 'reason' the Avengers put their s**t aside and worked together

to have not even gotten a name-check since then is a goddam tragedy

 

[Zarex]

I could do without most of the SHIELD characters
But Coulson has to be there
and Ghost Rider would be sweet

but the Defenders are very nearly necessary, I'll be super disappointed if they don't make some brief appearance

In an ideal world...ideally tho... The Defenders and the Secret Warriors (And I guess the Inhumans now too) would all show up in brief looks at different parts of the world and how they're dealing with the threat of Thanos

but yeah, Coulson deserves to show back up, have a triumphant return to the films, and help save the day
it would round out the trilogy, he died for them to unite, now he lives again to save their asses

I know it is extremely unlikely, but I would love to see Fury, Coulson and Hill lead the "The Resistance" after The Avengers and the rest of earth's forces get their heads handed to them by Thanos and his minions in A:IW. Having the Defenders and AOS heroes bust Spidey out of prison would make for a great post credit scene.

 

[DrCosmic]

Well give it a shot, cuz I don't understand that at all

the man was the glue that held phase 1 together, the 'reason' the Avengers put their s**t aside and worked together

to have not even gotten a name-check since then is a goddam tragedy

Coulson's death meant something, and his resurrection means nothing.

Coulson's death gave The Avengers weight, a turning point that made sense, that I cared about, and made their name not stupid.

Coulson's new life is one where he is unlike the Phase 1 character, he's more like a Mal Reynolds, hard edges and big demands with moments of self depreciating humor to give him character, but that's not the character from Phase 1. Coulson was charming because he wasn't demanding, he was badass because he always walked softly. He didn't make demands, he advised against consequences. He was a teddy bear with a ninja hidden inside. He was awesome. The character on AoS bears little resemblance to that awesomeness past the surface. Because the Phase 1 character is the perfect supporting character, and the AoS star has to be the lead, for some reason. And from that decision, to build it around Coulson follows every other ill-conception that makes AoS so grating, and irrelevant, and irreconcilable with the larger cinematic universe.

And that irreconcilability is what makes him un-name-checkable, because to bring him up is to point to him, and he is not a dead character, as he is to the movie characters, he's a very alive character on TV, every week. But there is no way to reconcile the Avengers' memory of Coulson with the TV's reinvention of Coulson. These two characters are not compatible. There is no way to bring him back to the movies without tarnishing the third act of The Avengers from which the MCU derives it's core thrust. To say nothing of having to handwave years and years of divorce between the TV and movie divisions narratively which is sure to turn out ugly.

I guess, the simplest issue is that the TV character isn't my Coulson. He's a mockery of him in many ways, and seeing that mockery come take the place of my Coulson would be an endorsement of all the dumb mistakes AoS has made, and goes against the idea of IW as this incredible experience to service, to promote something that I really don't like very much and would have been much better if it had been smart or gracious enough to modify it's premise to support instead of subvert the films. Glue is a good word, and I love Coulson as glue. But if glue stops being adhesive and tries to be it's own thing, then it's just a liquidy useless mess. AoS has some good things to it, but Coulson, to me, represents every thing that's wrong with it.

 

[NotNickFury]

Well give it a shot, cuz I don't understand that at all

the man was the glue that held phase 1 together, the 'reason' the Avengers put their s**t aside and worked together

Maybe the second time. But when they were at their most volatile and about to start fighting for real due to the scepter heightening their emotions, they put their nonsense aside and worked together when mind-controlled Barton attacked the Helicarrier.

So even without Fury's push and talk of Coulson, the Avengers were gonna get down to business, put their petty differences aside, and fight the good fight anyway.

 

[GeckoMoria]

Some of you are really overreacting about this big time. Infinity War won't be a disappointment if DD and JJ won't show up. I will have 20+ heroes to serve my needs. That's like saying i'm going to throw the biggest party in town with 100+ people and if 5 of the don't show up, it will be a disappointment. It's absurd and hyperbolic.

Due to timing, logistics or internal struggles the tv characters aren't likely to crossover. It's a price i'm willing to pay if this means pelmutter out of the movies. I will take quality over fan-service every day of the week. M main goal is to see great stories involving the characters. DD is my favorite hero and i've been waiting for him to be done justice 13 years!!!!

If a crossover happens, it happens. I will certainly not act overentitled to Marvel if 4 heroes don't show up in the mega-crossover they have been planning for over a decade....

 

[DrCosmic]

It depends on who the five people are. If someone throws a party with 100+ people, but makes sure not to invite their five disabled friends, guess who's going to be justifiably upset? The timing is fine, and the logistics, as you said, have been planned for over a decade. Perlmutter wouldn't get any power over the MCU, just like Sony doesn't have any power over the MCU. They just can't or won't validate the TV worlds.

Some people find the division disheartening, no matter how many people are on "our side." Excluding even one person intentionally feels bad for some people. It doesn't mean we won't have fun at the party, but we'll also know the claims the host has that the five forbidden friends are part of the group aren't really true.

 

[BoredGuy]

exactly... or if you were at said 100-person party, and the 5 people you're hoping will be there because they are fun and awesome aren't, it's justifiable that you'd be a little bummed. Still a rager of a party, but you know it woulda been just that much more fun if your friends Matt, Luke, Danny, and Jess had shown up.

 

[GeckoMoria]

exactly... or if you were at said 100-person party, and the 5 people you're hoping will be there because they are fun and awesome aren't, it's justifiable that you'd be a little bummed. Still a rager of a party, but you know it woulda been just that much more fun if your friends Matt, Luke, Danny, and Jess had shown up.

I won't pay much attention to it because my other 20+ friends are equally fun and awesome. Bruce, Steve, Tony, peter, Wanda, Scott. Viz is fun as hell and really weird, he has a glowing thing on its head. I might think for ammoment why Matt wouldn't attend but i won't let that ruin the party that i have been planning for 10 years.

And i won't certainly hold any grudge to those few friends since everyone else managed to clear their schedules and agree to attend the party. Because i KNOW how difficult it was to find the MONEY, GOODWILL AND TIME to organize this party. And most importantly to be able to create so many GOOD FRIENDS that i can afford to invite. So i'm grateful...

 

[Zarex]

Some of you are really overreacting about this big time. Infinity War won't be a disappointment if DD and JJ won't show up. I will have 20+ heroes to serve my needs. That's like saying i'm going to throw the biggest party in town with 100+ people and if 5 of the don't show up, it will be a disappointment. It's absurd and hyperbolic.

No one here is asking for a 20 minute Deathlok subplot running through the middle of the Infinity War film. We are simply hoping that the TV characters - including the ones featured on the extremely popular Netflix shows - are not left out from what Kevin Feige is calling a celebration of the MCU's first decade.

Due to timing, logistics or internal struggles the tv characters aren't likely to crossover. It's a price i'm willing to pay if this means pelmutter out of the movies. I will take quality over fan-service every day of the week. M main goal is to see great stories involving the characters. DD is my favorite hero and i've been waiting for him to be done justice 13 years!!!!

If a crossover happens, it happens. I will certainly not act overentitled to Marvel if 4 heroes don't show up in the mega-crossover they have been planning for over a decade....

Logistics and timing impact everyone, which is why we are getting Benedict Cumberbatch's face plastered on a stunt double in A:IW. That's understandable given the ever growing cast, but it definitely puts to rest the argument that scheduling issues are keeping Marvel TV and film separate.

In terms of servicing the fans, why include Phineas Horton's Synthetic Man in CA:TFA? Or Howard in GOTG? Neither character had any impact on the plot. Marvel has done a great job of maintaining quality while providing fan service. I don't see why that should change with a few well placed cameos.

 

[GeckoMoria]

None of those nods require additional contracts, actor schedules and a couple of more millions in the budget. They are not comparable cases.

Also Marvel Studios and Marvel tv relationship is strenuous and Ike hates feige. Also the timing issue is simply real since Defenders is shooting right now and will continue so for the next months and so is Infinity War.

This isn't the 616 where a writer wants character and the artist just draws him. This movie is a beast and going through all the trouble of trying to sugarcoat Pelmutter to lend the characters, try to find some space during the Defenders shoot, clear schedules for more actors and renegotiate additional clauses in contracts isn' that much worth the trouble for FEIGE or the general audience.

There was a tweet by Faraci months ago that if the Defenders don't show up in IW don't blame the movie people. So, that's how the situation is on top of the scheduling thing. Feige won't go through the emotional time-consuming friction of bargaining with Pelmutter again while he still has to manage NUMEROUS more moving parts for his gigantic two-parter.

Seriously some of you need perspective.

 

[BoredGuy]

Nobody is saying "oh if they don't show up this movie will suck, f*** it I'm not seeing it if DD isn't in there" Just stating what we'd like to see in an ideal situation, and that we find some of the reasoning to be quite dubious.

So it may be you, new guy, who needs perspective

and also, who knows, with his role in Herr Drumpf's regime, Perlmutter may have to step back from Marvel TV quite a bit

 

[Zarex]

A little while ago we would have come to the same conclusion regarding X-Men TV shows - Perlmutter hates FOX! It will never happen! And here we are, with Legion just a few weeks away.

Things change. To say that Feige and Ike will never work together because of their split a year and a half ago is ridiculous, and assumes that Iger doesn't have the final say in all things Disney. If Feige wants it badly enough it will happen.

 

[DrCosmic]

I won't pay much attention to it because my other 20+ friends are equally fun and awesome.

Being grateful is a beautiful thing, keep that, but just as a note, this isn't how friendships work.

"Hey I missed you!"
"Why? Don't you have other friends?"
That'd be mad rude.

There was a tweet by Faraci months ago that if the Defenders don't show up in IW don't blame the movie people.

...

Seriously some of you need perspective.

The same arguments you're making could be made against Avengers, including anyone who wants this big crossover really needs 'perspective' and just be grateful for quality standalone films, which is a fine perspective, but now that I know something better exists, Avengers to the second power, if you will, it's hard to forget about, especially if the reasons are as flimsy as "scheduling" and then flip flop to "No, it's not anything you can blame on us like scheduling, blame the TV people, they're jerks." If this is true, it proves that all the scheduling malarkey is just a cover story for the real issue.

A little while ago we would have come to the same conclusion regarding X-Men TV shows - Perlmutter hates FOX! It will never happen! And here we are, with Legion just a few weeks away.

Things change. To say that Feige and Ike will never work together because of their split a year and a half ago is ridiculous, and assumes that Iger doesn't have the final say in all things Disney. If Feige wants it badly enough it will happen.

This

 

[Zant]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/dan-buckey-named-president-marvel-entertainment-965577

New Marvel entertainment president. He will still report to Uncle Perlmutter so hes just a lackey. Not much change here.

 

[BoredGuy]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/dan-buckey-named-president-marvel-entertainment-965577

and also, who knows, with his role in Herr Drumpf's regime, Perlmutter may have to step back from Marvel TV quite a bit

called that s***
he may report to Ike, but I'd bet Ike will have little-to-no day to day involvement with Marvel at this point

 

[GeckoMoria]

Buckley and Fine are Pelmutter's right hand men. Nothing has changed and frankly i don't think anything will change soon. Ike has a huge grudge with Feige and he is not gonna leave his position open anytime soon.

As for the whole tv characters thing i never said it was only scheduling or only the relationship between the departments. I think i made clear i consider both to be a cause. Which one is more, i don;t know but the scheduling is real. We are dealing with contracts outside of Marvel's norm. Feige didn't sign the tv actors, Loeb did. There were supposedly clauses in their contracts but i think Mike Ryann said last year Ike had them removed.

It's much more complicated than bringing Evans or even Holland in Infinity War. You can call it "excuse or mallarky" all you want but as we have seen with Cumbebatch it''s a real issue and a grey area because we don't know what's the situation with tv actors. Of course Ike's grudge will make things harder.

As for the " "oh if they don't show up this movie will suck, f**" when some of you say that if tv characters won't appear in Infinity war the movie will be a huge disappointment you can't shocked when someone calls this reaction exagerrated. Infinity War's quality will have nothing to do with tv characters appearing or not. It can be a great movie without even a mention of the tv characters. Don't cnfuse fan-service with actual film quality. They are NOT the same.

 

[OB12]

You are resorting to hyperbole regarding IW. I don't think anyone is saying that it will suck if the TV characters are not involved, I am sure it will be good either way based upon the Russo's previous work. That said, I think the point remains that Marvel has created this universe on film they probably should service that entire universe with regards to this grand event. I certainly will be a bit disappointed if Coulson's team's main arc is dealing with something like the Serpent Society leading up to IW. It would make IW seem smaller and I'd question why should I be so invested in the TV shows if they don't really play into the larger narrative. I've seen every minute of content put out for the MCU, so my interest in the TV shows is based upon their individual stories but also how they fit into and expand the larger universe. That is part of the fun for me.

Now, with all of that said, my solution to this issue would be something that I've advocated in a couple of different threads. Assuming there is an Earth-based component to the IW story, and I think there would need to be since the Mind Stone and Time Stone are both on Earth, have basically a shortened 5th season of AoS or a mini-series event. Inhumans would be Marvel's fall show and AoS could return in February with a 12 episode run that deals directly with some events tied to IW. Not a B-storyline like the Hellicarrier with Age of Ultron, but an arc that is focused on the coming threat of Thanos. Start filming in July and they could probably wrap by November. Include the Defenders, Mockingbird, Fury, Hill, Sharon Carter, and Deathlok in guest roles. They could easily take a quick clip of their battle and cut it into IW on a screen like they have done before. This lets the impact of IW touch the TV side and allows and unobtrusive cameo for some of the heroes in the film.

Sure there would be some logistics to work out, maybe some contractual stuff, but if Feige and company are going to be ambitious with this event, why stop just short?

 

[BoredGuy]

As for the " "oh if they don't show up this movie will suck, f**" when some of you say that if tv characters won't appear in Infinity war the movie will be a huge disappointment you can't shocked when someone calls this reaction exagerrated. Infinity War's quality will have nothing to do with tv characters appearing or not. It can be a great movie without even a mention of the tv characters. Don't cnfuse fan-service with actual film quality. They are NOT the same.

Also
Don't be confused
Nobody has ever said that if they don't show up, the movie will be a disappointment
it would be disappointing to not get to see them standing with the other Marvel heroes
noone's saying the movie will suck if they're not there

Back to that "party" analogy earlier in the thread... If I have a party and 60 awesome people show up, but 5 of my friends who I really wanted to see didn't make it, that wouldn't mean the party sucked, at all. The party would, in all likelihood, be amazing. But I'd still be mildly disappointed that those 5 didn't make it, because I was hopeful and excited to see them.

 

[MbJ]

Now, with all of that said, my solution to this issue would be something that I've advocated in a couple of different threads. Assuming there is an Earth-based component to the IW story, and I think there would need to be since the Mind Stone and Time Stone are both on Earth, have basically a shortened 5th season of AoS or a mini-series event. Inhumans would be Marvel's fall show and AoS could return in February with a 12 episode run that deals directly with some events tied to IW. Not a B-storyline like the Hellicarrier with Age of Ultron, but an arc that is focused on the coming threat of Thanos. Start filming in July and they could probably wrap by November. Include the Defenders, Mockingbird, Fury, Hill, Sharon Carter, and Deathlok in guest roles. They could easily take a quick clip of their battle and cut it into IW on a screen like they have done before. This lets the impact of IW touch the TV side and allows and unobtrusive cameo for some of the heroes in the film.

Sure there would be some logistics to work out, maybe some contractual stuff, but if Feige and company are going to be ambitious with this event, why stop just short?

I doubt that'll happen. Budget alone would probably be an issue.

 

[Dr Tactics]

http://ew.com/tv/2017/01/13/defenders-marvel-cinematic-universe-crossover-jeph-loeb/

Speaking of New York, does that mean that The Defenders will visit New York-based Doctor Strange, cross over with other Marvel series like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., or enter the realm of the films? “You’re trying to trap me into saying, ‘Hashtag, it’s all connected,'” Loeb says, chuckling. “If the story warrants it, we will obviously do our best to have folks cross into each other’s story lines.”

If this helps

 

[MbJ]

That was posted a few pages back. It's why the discussion started again.

 

[Dr Tactics]

That was posted a few pages back. It's why the discussion started again.

I Figured.. I Must work too hard.. Cant keep up

 

[Gotham Fury]

With all of the shows we now have, it's easier said than done.
Scheduling conflicts are very real and the writing process for both formats
are definitely different.

I've always seen the shows as contained stories that just connect into
the universe as a whole. I really don't need them to be more coordinated.
Agent Carter did this perfectly. That's all I desire from the shows.

Maybe for Infinity War, they should crossover just a tad more, but that's about it.