Should this Superman kill? - Part 1

[Shazam]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they essentially hint at Superman being in turmoil when they zoomed into Zod's Heat Vision getting closer to targeting the family, and then zoomed into Superman's eye and pleads to stop? I think that's pretty telling that Superman is not okay with this, the fact that he even has to wait that long until he stops Zod is also telling of his inner conflict.

Exactly.......it tore him up....

 

[Bruce Malone]

Did he not have the opportunity to just "blind" zod? as in cover up his eyes with his hands as i assumed he would?

I almost feel the effort it took to [BLACKOUT]snap[/BLACKOUT] his [BLACKOUT]neck[/BLACKOUT] could have been used to momentarily block the heat vision?

 

[MadVillainy]

Did he not have the opportunity to just "blind" zod? as in cover up his eyes with his hands as i assumed he would?

I almost feel the effort it took to [BLACKOUT]snap[/BLACKOUT] his [BLACKOUT]neck[/BLACKOUT] could have been used to momentarily block the heat vision?

as i said i feel like he had other options

 

[DorkyFresh]

Police officers and soldiers do it all the time......are they evil???

Exactly...the way I see it is like this. Say a man loves the forest and the woods and everything involving nature. He comes across 2 kids running around and all of the sudden a bear comes out and starts attacking the kids for no apparent reason. Maybe the kids got too close to her territory, maybe they smell like sammiches...but the bear is still attacking defenseless, innocent kids. Is that man who loves nature gonna shoot the bear in the leg? NO! He's gonna aim to kill! Not because he wants to kill the bear, but because he wants to save the kids' lives.

Batman never killed his opponents because he never was faced with a do or die situation like Superman. Superman did "what is necessary" as Ra's Al Ghul would've put it.

 

[Bruce Malone]

I mentioned this in another thread but i almost feel like this aspect was chosen to be a statement to the audience imo in reference to batman.

In that Batman as dark as his reputation was in Nolan's trilogy never actually took that extra step that superman here did. I just wonder who's idea was that? Snyder, Goyer or Nolan the 2 guys connected to TDK trilogy?

 

[HighFivingMF]

Did he not have the opportunity to just "blind" zod? as in cover up his eyes with his hands as i assumed he would?

I almost feel the effort it took to [BLACKOUT]snap[/BLACKOUT] his [BLACKOUT]neck[/BLACKOUT] could have been used to momentarily block the heat vision?

Turn a hose on at full pressure and put your hand in front of it. Does it stop the stream or cause it to spray in various directions? That's why I think he didn't do that.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Turn a hose on at full pressure and put your hand in front of it. Does it stop the stream or cause it to spray in various directions? That's why I think he didn't do that.

I don't really want to debate the physics of heat vision but the way the beams were aimed by zod they were concentrated towards a specific cornered target. Even if the beams splayed outwards i don't think that group there would have been in danger in that one corner.

Either way i was surprised by that event unfolding but it didn't really impact me one way or another negatively or positively. So i don't consider it an issue really.

 

[Neonzel]

Did he not have the opportunity to just "blind" zod? as in cover up his eyes with his hands as i assumed he would?

I almost feel the effort it took to [BLACKOUT]snap[/BLACKOUT] his [BLACKOUT]neck[/BLACKOUT] could have been used to momentarily block the heat vision?

And then what? They would have continued fighting and Zod would do what Superman couldn't and kill him. But for argument sake lets say Superman does subdue Zod and knocks him unconscious, how are they going to restrain him? The Phantom's projector's gone, there's no Kryptonite yet, and they don't know about the Red Sun's effects. Zod would just do what he was doing before and kill more people.

 

[Zimmy]

Did he not have the opportunity to just "blind" zod? as in cover up his eyes with his hands as i assumed he would?

I almost feel the effort it took to [BLACKOUT]snap[/BLACKOUT] his [BLACKOUT]neck[/BLACKOUT] could have been used to momentarily block the heat vision?

I think you missed the bigger point.

Zod basically told him, as long as he was living, he would kill "Earth" people.

 

[MadVillainy]

Zod basically told him, as long as he was living, he would kill "Earth" people.

so kinda ot: but do you think in the comic book world should superheroes kill all their enemies? Because long as Joker is alive he's gonna f*** things up. As long as Professor Zoom is alive he'll mess with The Flash's life and hurt others. And that could be said with a lot of the murderous villains.
The only villain that I think shouldnt be killed is Kingpin because, and I think it's even been brought up, that the gang war for his territory following his death would be worse then anything he couldve done.

Back ot: Then again Batman has killed in this movies too so whatever.

Idk for me the moment just seemed like shock value. It seems that the writers put Superman in that situation to have him have that response basically in order to say to the GA: "This isnt the Superman you know" and all you can write responses how it's not but that's just how I feel.

 

[Lencho01]

so kinda ot: but do you think in the comic book world should superheroes kill all their enemies? Because long as Joker is alive he's gonna f*** things up. As long as Professor Zoom is alive he'll mess with The Flash's life and hurt others. And that could be said with a lot of the murderous villains.
The only villain that I think shouldnt be killed is Kingpin because, and I think it's even been brought up, that the gang war for his territory following his death would be worse then anything he couldve done.

Back ot: Then again Batman has killed in this movies too so whatever.

Idk for me the moment just seemed like shock value. It seems that the writers put Superman in that situation to have him have that response basically in order to say to the GA: "This isnt the Superman you know" and all you can write responses how it's not but that's just how I feel.

I feel the same way too.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ I feel like Nolan's "grounded" vision doesn't allow for things

Spoiler

like trapping Zod into alternate realities or whatnot.

Superman did what he had to. If this was a more fantastical version, I'd be mad at it. But he felt guilty, and also

Spoiler

Zod WANTED to die. He wanted to die a general. Supes pleaded for him to stop his attack on earth. His plan was over, and all he wanted was revenge. He'd be unstoppable. At best Superman could knock him out, and he'd only wreck havoc on innocents when it's all said and done. As for the buildings, there was no way he could save those people without letting Zod escape and kill even more.

 

[Gamingboy]

I feel like the end of Man Of Steel will so much depend on how this affects Superman in future movies. If it turns out to haunt him (much as it has the few times he's done so in the comics), to make him swear more than ever to never take a life, then it's good. But if they just gloss over it or god forbid do a similar thing, then it'll bug me more.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Agreed.

 

[Jim-El]

Should this Superman kill?
NO!

 

[BH/HHH]

^ I feel like Nolan's "grounded" vision doesn't allow for things

Spoiler

like trapping Zod into alternate realities or whatnot.

Superman did what he had to. If this was a more fantastical version, I'd be mad at it. But he felt guilty, and also

Spoiler

Zod WANTED to die. He wanted to die a general. Supes pleaded for him to stop his attack on earth. His plan was over, and all he wanted was revenge. He'd be unstoppable. At best Superman could knock him out, and he'd only wreck havoc on innocents when it's all said and done. As for the buildings, there was no way he could save those people without letting Zod escape and kill even more.

Yes exactly

 

[Spiderine]

I felt like Zod was determined to kill anyone at any cost and even after their great battle he was intent on not giving up and causing more destruction and death. I don't think Supes could subdue him. It left him with only one alternative, killing him.

I'm sure if Supes had other options he would have chosen them.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Exactly. He didn't have enough time to decide a nice idealized non-deadly way of defeating his foe. But I do hope this gets addressed in sequels.

 

[EliteF50]

I think we should all keep in mind this is Superman's first rodeo. Yeah, maybe he could've done something else instead of snapping Zod's neck, but in the heat of the moment, coupled with Zod promising to kill every human as long as lives, it made sense to Clark. Besides, this will probably be the foundation for Clark's "No Killing" rule.

 

[Warhammer]

Given the context of the story, Superman had no choice but to kill Zod. At this point where they are literally the only super powered beings on Earth, it just had to be done. Besides, Zod was asking for it. Also, there was shoe horned plot device like a handy Phantom Zone transporter for Superman to use.

 

[metaphysician]

There is more to the issue, though. Whether or not Superman could realistically have stopped Zod without killing him is one question. Whether the writers should have written a situation where Superman couldn't possibly solve it without killing someone is another.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Exactly. In a perfect world, Zod's fate would be different, and Superman wouldn't have blood on his hands. But this is "our world" so far :/

 

[dnno1]

Look, guys, you know he's going to do it again. He still has to fight Doomsday in the 3rd film.

 

[Bruce Malone]

I think you missed the bigger point.

Zod basically told him, as long as he was living, he would kill "Earth" people.

As someone else put it and as long as the Joker is alive he will kill people as well. The decision to have superman kill was a choice made by the filmmakers as a statement and for impact.

It was to prove that isn't your old superman anymore. I'm not hating the decision but it could have gone in other ways as well.

I honestly thought when zod said he had nothing to live for anymore he was just going to just kill himself?

 

[dnno1]

I think we should all keep in mind this is Superman's first rodeo. Yeah, maybe he could've done something else instead of snapping Zod's neck, but in the heat of the moment, coupled with Zod promising to kill every human as long as lives, it made sense to Clark. Besides, this will probably be the foundation for Clark's "No Killing" rule.

This.