Should this Superman kill? - Part 1

[dnno1]

Zod's in a healing coma. If the film makes $2 billion you should bet your bottom dollar, he will be back to make us kneel before him.

 

[Warhammer]

As someone else put it and as long as the Joker is alive he will kill people as well. The decision to have superman kill was a choice made by the filmmakers as a statement and for impact.

It was to prove that isn't your old superman anymore. I'm not hating the decision but it could have gone in other ways as well.

I honestly thought when zod said he had nothing to live for anymore he was just going to just kill himself?

I disagree. Nolanverse Joker is just a man. He would have either been on death row or institutionalized in a mental institution forever. He wasn't a super powered being (in context of the film, one of two left) who would never be stopped by human means.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I disagree. Nolanverse Joker is just a man. He would have either been on death row or institutionalized in a mental institution forever. He wasn't a super powered being (in context of the film, one of two left) who would never be stopped by human means.

Exactly. Give Joker heatvision, superstrength, and flight, and it'd be crazy for Batman NOT to kill him.

 

[S. Grundy]

And Batman wouldn't, no matter what sort of superpower Joker had, he would find a non-lethal way to take him down. It was just lazy writing that the only thing Superman could do was kill Zod.

 

[Warhammer]

Technically, Batman kills Harvey Dent, a garbage truck driver, Miranda Tate, and Tate's driver. But that is a whole different can of worms.

 

[S. Grundy]

I thought we were talking Batman in general, not Nolan's. His Batman was fairly incompetent.

 

[Tanin]

I thought we were talking Batman in general, not Nolan's. His Batman was fairly incompetent.

Apparently so is Nolan's Superman. I just hope Superman learns his lesson and never does it again.

 

[Smashlilman]

Exactly. Give Joker heatvision, superstrength, and flight, and it'd be crazy for Batman NOT to kill him.

It's all ready happend. Only Joker was basically made a god. I think Mixelplix gave him all his powers and the joker went after Superman.

Spoiler

 

[Blake II]

It's about time they start making superhero films into adult films. Enough with the cheesy dialogue, the unrealistic events they portray, it's time to start making films like TDK and MOS. Superman should definitely start killing people in the name of justice.

 

[Tanin]

It's about time they start making superhero films into adult films. Enough with the cheesy dialogue, the unrealistic events they portray, it's time to start making films like TDK and MOS. Superman should definitely start killing people in the name of justice.

Egad no.... He isn't Judge Dredd.

 

[Blake II]

Egad no.... He isn't Judge Dredd.

And he isn't the exact cheesy copy of the comic Superman. This is a different, darker, more grittier superman and I love it.

 

[S. Grundy]

That's the type of **** that makes me hate geeks nowadays.

I got over the need to see grim n' gritty comic book movies when I was 15/16. What Marvel is doing is the perfect balancing act, taking the stories/characters serious enough, but not sucking out the fun or optimism from the movies.

The last thing Superman needs to be is dark and gritty.

 

[Tanin]

And he isn't the exact cheesy copy of the comic Superman. This is a different, darker, more grittier superman and I love it.

I don't mind Superman killing as a last resort.... it doesn't need to be done to every villain.

 

[Blake II]

That's the type of **** that makes me hate geeks nowadays.

I got over the need to see grim n' gritty comic book movies when I was 15/16. What Marvel is doing is the perfect balancing act, taking the stories/characters serious enough, but not sucking out the fun or optimism from the movies.

The last thing Superman needs to be is dark and gritty.

Lmao so dark, gritty, and realistic is for GEEKS and comic-book cheesiness and loyalness is not geeky? I don't even know where to start.

I've long been wanting adult superhero films to take out that "geeky" and "nerdy" aspect. I've always wanted a film that can be taken serious to an extent, and man has DC been putting out juggernauts lol well except for Green Lantern.

 

[Tanin]

Lmao so dark, gritty, and realistic is for GEEKS and comic-book cheesiness and loyalness is not geeky? I don't even know where to start.

I've long been wanting adult superhero films to take out that "geeky" and "nerdy" aspect. I've always wanted a film that can be taken serious to an extent, and man has DC been putting out juggernauts lol well except for Green Lantern.

While I agree a more mature look is good considering Marvel's more playful style. I think they may have taken it a bit far with Superman. Just a smidgen.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Zod's in a healing coma. If the film makes $2 billion you should bet your bottom dollar, he will be back to make us kneel before him.

I'm not sure if this is a joke, but I'll respond to it with seriousness

Wouldn't that take the drama and emotional impact away though from Superman?

"No! I killed somebody! I'm devastated! It's affected my life. I swear from this day forward, I shall never kill again!"

Zod's alive!

"Oh thank Rao for that!"

 

[Blake II]

While I agree a more mature look is good considering Marvel's more playful style. I think they may have taken it a bit far with Superman. Just a smidgen.

You know what, maybe they did, but I'm starting to adjust to this change. The first time I saw MoS I was like whoa, where the hell did Superman grow these balls? And last night I saw it again and I got kind of used to this new take. I mean Nolan's Batman took a more mature approach and it made a lot of us look at the movie in a more serious way. They did the same thing with this movie and in my opinion I think they did good.

But this movie definitely isn't for kids younger than 12.

 

[S. Grundy]

It's not that it's geeky to want that, it's that geeks that want that for all comic book movies are annoying idiots.

 

[Blake II]

It's not that it's geeky to want that, it's that geeks that want that for all comic book movies are annoying idiots.

Or maybe they aren't geeks and want these movies to grow out of the geeky phase. You really need to look up the definition of the word "geek". A more mature, realistic, dark film is not geeky whatsoever.

 

[Tanin]

The thing is though is that some characters just are geeky and camp in tone and changing the tone changes them on a fundamental basis that just shouldn't be done.

 

[Blake II]

The thing is though is that some characters just are geeky and camp in tone and changing the tone changes them on a fundamental basis that just shouldn't be done.

Or maybe it should be done. That's what made Nolan's Batman trilogy such a spectacle. That's what had everyone anticipating this superman movie all because of the more mature tone.

I mean if you're doing a movie about Shazam! or plastic man then yeah the cheesiness is a must. But if it's a big name like Superman, you have to take a little more serious approach to make it appealing to everyone, not only kids.

 

[S. Grundy]

You can do Superman serious without trying to make him dark, edgy and po-faced, or fundamentally change a core belief of the character. It's dumb as ****.

 

[Lord]

You know what, maybe they did, but I'm starting to adjust to this change. The first time I saw MoS I was like whoa, where the hell did Superman grow these balls? And last night I saw it again and I got kind of used to this new take. I mean Nolan's Batman took a more mature approach and it made a lot of us look at the movie in a more serious way. They did the same thing with this movie and in my opinion I think they did good.

But this movie definitely isn't for kids younger than 12.

The mature in Nolan's Batman films was in the symbolism and plot, not in the hero killing the villain, in fact on of the weirdest moments in his trilogy was when he didn't save Ra's All Ghul and told that in his face.

 

[BlueLantern]

It's about time they start making superhero films into adult films. Enough with the cheesy dialogue, the unrealistic events they portray, it's time to start making films like TDK and MOS. Superman should definitely start killing people in the name of justice.

This whole concept of 'this film's for adults' is so alien to me. Sure, there's films that are not designed to play for kids, like Fight Club or anything Aaron Sorkin writes.

But if someone told the six year old version of me that I couldn't watch a Superman film because it wasn't made for kids, I'd go on a ****ing rampage. Superman is an icon for EVERYONE. Pigeon holing him into a film only for adults is as criminal as making Batman & Robin only for kids.

You absolutely do not get how important these character are to people of all ages. Yes, Christopher Nolan's Batman was mature, but you bet your ass that it played for people of all ages regardless of how vicious the villains were. Children get that.

They're not idiots who think 'ah well that enemy's on the same level as someone from Scooby Doo so he'll be harmless'. They get that the Joker's evil and it only elevates Batman to an even higher level of being hero as it were. Ditto for any rendition of Superman.

The issue with Man of Steel's finale or treatment of the action in general wasn't that it was made for 'adults'. The issue with the action is that it was bland. Regardless of how bland a life I may lead I don't want to go to the cinema and watching boring action set pieces and then get told I must enjoy it because I'm an adult. That's bonkers.

Or maybe it should be done. That's what made Nolan's Batman trilogy such a spectacle. That's what had everyone anticipating this superman movie all because of the more mature tone.

I mean if you're doing a movie about Shazam! or plastic man then yeah the cheesiness is a must. But if it's a big name like Superman, you have to take a little more serious approach to make it appealing to everyone, not only kids.

Not so long before this post you were harping on about films needing to play for adults, now you want it to play not just for kids. You really don't get it. The best films in the world are those that don't pigeon hole themselves into playing for a certain audience.

Sure, the Godfather isn't meant for kids, but that doesn't mean it's targeting a certain demographic. It's just that the subject matter wouldn't appeal to children unless they're really into discovering the true meaning behind family and loyalty. But hey, that's not the point.

Superman, Batman and countless other characters are meant for all appropriate audiences. Piegon-holing them isn't a financial mistake as much as a cultural mistake. They'd lock out an entire generation in order to please people who want exclusive access to a misguided version of a global icon.

Granted, they haven't done that in Man of Steel but that's not to say they haven't delivered a skewed representation of what it means to be a hero. But that's a different point to the non-point you're attempting to make.

 

[Man of Steel]

Zod's in a healing coma. If the film makes $2 billion you should bet your bottom dollar, he will be back to make us kneel before him.

I'm not sure if this is a joke, but I'll respond to it with seriousness

Wouldn't that take the drama and emotional impact away though from Superman?

"No! I killed somebody! I'm devastated! It's affected my life. I swear from this day forward, I shall never kill again!"

Zod's alive!

"Oh thank Rao for that!"

I honestly hope that this is the case.