Siege

[ChelseaGrin26]

Yeah I have always thought of Venom as a mid level brick.

 

[Docker2.0]

Venom's much stronger than cage. The symbiote was able to boost's brock's stats to above spider-man but now it's boosting Gargan's stats who was superior to Spider-Man in every way except speed. He's not Hulk strong but he's definately strong enough to hurt someone like hulk. If they put in all his powers with invisibility and such he'd give some problems in a group setting. Between him, Ares, an iron man armor powered by a metahuman and Moonstone they'd give Thor a decent fight. Bullseye and Daken wouldn't have anything much to do though.

Brock's Venom was only able to lift 10 tons. While Cage is able to lift 20. Gargan's Venom I'm not sure about, nor do I care about. He's just a cheap imitation of the real deal, Brock's Venom!!

 

[crimsonspider89]

Venom when injured can increase his strength to Hulk levels though and Thor beat Ares before but they are just as physically strong. Thor can fly, control lightning and has Mjornir.

http://www.comicvine.com/venom/29-1486/

Eddie Venom could lift 15-20 tons where Gargan Venom can lift 85-100 tons.

 

[Docker2.0]

Venom when injured can increase his strength to Hulk levels though and Thor beat Ares before but they are just as physically strong. Thor can fly, control lightning and has Mjornir.

http://www.comicvine.com/venom/29-1486/

Spoiler

http://marvel.com/universe/Venom

 

[RockSP]

He can increase his strength to Hulk levels when injured? That makes no sense whatsoever...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I don't believe that bit about Venom. If he's done that even once in an actual comic, my hatred for Venorpion is officially doubled.

 

[crimsonspider89]

The marvel website is not up to date and has wrong data. It is inaccurate on characters. Use comicvine or wikipedia(good on comics) for character detail. Trust me, it does not even have Dark Reign on the character profiles yet.

He did. I don't like him either. He is still a cheap knockoff of Eddie Venom. Spidey even says so. He has no brains. Eddie now can lift 85-100 tons as well.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Brock's Venom was only able to lift 10 tons. While Cage is able to lift 20. Gargan's Venom I'm not sure about, nor do I care about. He's just a cheap imitation of the real deal, Brock's Venom!!

Brock's venom was stronger than spider-man so more than 10 ton's cause that's Pete's level. Gargan is stronger and faster than Pete so +10 tons. Now the symbiote was able to multiply Brock's human strength (he was in great shape so lets set the bar really high and say 500 lbs, 2000lbs = 1 ton so the symbiote could multiply brock's strength by a factor of x40). You do the math on this and gargan is pretty high up there even at 1/8th the level it could multiply brock were still looking at at least 70 ton category. Cage isn't there.

Sorry I'm of the other opinion. Brock worked at first but now he just doesn't have the same motivation or make much sense. I wish they used venom like they originally wanted to with the symbiote floating between Spidey villians. Scorpion venom, Vulture Venom, Rhino Venom, etc that would have been cool. Brock's character used to be good but I just find myself not giving a **** about him now.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I use the comics, personally. Websites list some weird s*** and are always colored by the biases of their creators. If you've got an issue number of Venom being as strong as the Hulk, please post it. Otherwise, Venom's a mid-level powerhouse, not a Hulk-level one.

As for the math justification: Brock became even stronger as Venom than Spider-Man was when he wore the symbiote. So that's no justification at all, really.

 

[Docker2.0]

Eh, Gargan's Venom sux anyway.

 

[Docker2.0]

I use the comics, personally. Websites list some weird s*** and are always colored by the biases of their creators. If you've got an issue number of Venom being as strong as the Hulk, please post it. Otherwise, Venom's a mid-level powerhouse, not a Hulk-level one.

Well he did whoop Superman's arse and was only able to beat him with the help of Spidey.

 

[RockSP]

Yeah, I don't believe that bit about Venom.

So does he walk around punching himself in the jewels so he can be Hulk-strong? Daken pokes him with a claw every once in a while...?

Banner: Hulk smash Venom!!

Gargan (holding knife): Oh yeah? Well, as soon as I injure myself I'll be on the same level as

*Smash*

 

[crimsonspider89]

Guess it was a lie and has been removed.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The way I understand it, the Venom symbiote simply has its own strength level, which it confers to everyone who wears it regardless of their own strength. So:

|----- Venom regardless of wearer
|
|----- Scorpion
|
|----- Spider-Man
|
|----- Eddie Brock

I'm not saying that's 100% right and could never be disproven, but that seems to be pretty accurate based on the comics I've read. Granted, my knowledge of Venorpion is pretty limited, since I hate him and tend to avoid reading his comics when I can. I could buy that Scorpion's natural strength, which is greater than Brock's or Spider-Man's, could catapult him to a higher strength level overall with the symbiote, but Hulk-level? Not as far as I've seen.

 

[moraldeficiency]

The way I understand it, the Venom symbiote simply has its own strength level, which it confers to everyone who wears it regardless of their own strength. So:

|----- Venom regardless of wearer
|
|----- Scorpion
|
|----- Spider-Man
|
|----- Eddie Brock

I'm not saying that's 100% right and could never be disproven, but that seems to be pretty accurate based on the comics I've read. Granted, my knowledge of Venorpion is pretty limited, since I hate him and tend to avoid reading his comics when I can. I could buy that Scorpion's natural strength, which is greater than Brock's or Spider-Man's, could catapult him to a higher strength level overall with the symbiote, but Hulk-level? Not as far as I've seen.

Actually It's been stated the symbiote increases the ability levels of the person based on what they could do. It's didn't for Spider-Man because he already had a good level of strength and it didn't want to tip him off too much. But even saying that scorpion is at about 15 ton level. Brock venom was at least that so figure Gargan venom is at least 30 ton level. Definately not hulk level, though between invisibility and the ability of the symbiote to actually create new matter (though it's been mainly used just for webs) and if they ever actually brought back the symbiote's ability to drain life energies out of what it can touch, he should be pretty formidable.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That seems reasonable. I did get the sense that Venorpion was a bit stronger than Venom normally is, but nowhere near Hulk-level.

Like I said before, though, 5-to-1, even against guys who are each individually half as strong as Thor, would be pretty rough on him. As it stands, he's got two who are about half as strong as he is (Venorpion and Moonstone), plus Bullseye, who's dangerous in other ways, plus Norman and Ares, who are both a lot more than just half as strong as he is. That's definitely a group that should give Thor some trouble if he's standing his ground to fight them (as opposed to Thor #600, where he just chased them away to fight Bor).

 

[StreetWarrior]

Does anyone else see Ares truning on Osborne during the course of Siege? I mean I know Ares' heroism is extremely questionable, but would he really be okay with knocking out Asgard?

Also...




... I like Gargan Venom.

 

[ChelseaGrin26]

Yeah Ares is the one that I can really see getting a sudden conscience and realizing that, though he tries to justify himself working for him, in the end Osborn is just an evil monster and needs to be stopped.

 

[ChelseaGrin26]

Also Osborn's attack on Asgard may make Ares realize that the far more disorganized Olympians could be his next target.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Ares doesn't care about the other Olympians.

Does anyone else see Ares truning on Osborne during the course of Siege? I mean I know Ares' heroism is extremely questionable, but would he really be okay with knocking out Asgard?

Also...




... I like Gargan Venom.

Based on everything I've read of Marvel's Ares? Absolutely, without a single hint of doubt in my mind, yes.

 

[ChelseaGrin26]

Ares doesn't care about the other Olympians.

Based on everything I've read of Marvel's Ares? Absolutely, without a single hint of doubt in my mind, yes.

No but that doesn't change the fact that he is one. I think Ares would side with his own people in the event that Osborn declared war.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I think he told Osborn that in Incredible Hercules.

 

[crimsonspider89]

Ares will side with the Olympians if they give him his position back. That is all he wants.

 

[ChelseaGrin26]

At this point, whats left of Olympus needs every last Olympian they have.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I think he told Osborn that in Incredible Hercules.

Oh, that's right, he didn't think it was proper for the gods to fall by mortal hands or something like that, right?