Siege

[Aesop Rocks]

Eh, I guess Jane and Hill looked identical to me, Jane in #600 and Hill in the preview kind of looked the same to me.

 

[Dread]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if Thor killed Osborn in #2 and then Loki became the main villain of Siege? I'd be cool with that. Or Thor killing the Sentry. Or Thor telling Ares the truth and Ares killing Osborn.

That's probably not happening in issue two. I doubt Bendis would kill Osborn that early. If he did, he wouldn't give the win to Thor. He'd likely give it to Luke Cage.

Now Ares killing Osborn eventually...that's possible. I doubt in issue #2 but maybe by #3 or #4. Loki won't be exposed as the mastermind here. That'll be the event next year. Marvel doesn't end ANYTHING, silly. They haven't editorially figured the difference between a good beginning and a good ending since 2004. They're not going to magically rediscover it now. But that's just me being cynical.

I'm hoping there's still some off chance that Spiderman is going to take Osborn down in Siege....then again, i'm not sure i can take anymore of Bendis writing 616 spiderman so maybe its for the best. lol

There's a chance...just as much of a chance of winning first prize in the lottery. Bendis writes Spider-Man as an incompetent, emasculated man-child who has never won a solo adventure battle in his entire career beyond by luck. He never gives Spidey anything to say that isn't a wisecrack and never writes as if Spider-Man has any more experience than, say, Gravity. Which makes that alright for Ultimate Spider-Man (albeit still silly after over 130 issues of material and at least 10-15 full adventure arcs no less, not counting those Team-Up issues). It was Luke Cage, in THE PULSE, who exposed Osborn and put him in jail, right in front of Peter. Despite the fact that Spidey has over a decade's experience in actual published comics over Cage, that's the guy who has more experience in Bendis' eyes.

Personally, I think Spider-Man would have been a better fit for the Fantastic Four than the Avengers, but even as an Avenger, he should offer much more competence and experience than he does. Part of his wise-cracking should be fueled by genuine, "I have fought everything from villains to aliens to vampires to zombies to gods to demons to robots and anything in between" confidence, at least with the mask on. That isn't who Bendis writes. Bendis writes Spider-Man as a hero who as been more lucky than wise to have lasted this long in the biz.

I'd be willing to be money that if anyone takes Osborn down when it counts, it won't be Spider-Man. Hell, I'd put even odds on it being a villain.

I dont see how Norman still has a job after the Chicago stadium thing. Switch to real life. 9/11 happens. Homeland Security is created. Lets say that terrorist blow up Orlando Fl. Shouldnt the head of HS get relieved since he wasnt doing his job. If another superhero tiff kills a bunch of people and its Norman's job to prevent stuff like this from happening I dont see how he still has a job

To be fair, politics and government agencies, whether federal, state, or local, are raft with cronyism. That was one of the main criticisms of the Bush Administration, and generally Republicans in general; blind loyalty even in the face of extreme incompetence in some officials at best. It's one criticism that is frankly on the money. Democrats do it too, but they're not as well known for it; if anything, they're more willing to devour their own than Republicans are, to a degree. Not all of Obama's critics are Republicans these days. Almost no Republican criticized Bush/Cheney until they were well into their second term. But any political appointee usually has some level of "untouchable" status for a while regardless of quality of work. It is why government is corrupt and why nothing, absolutely nothing, ever changes for the better anywhere for the average citizen. It's great to be part of it, but if you're not, you're not even a Pawn in the game. You're the art on the board, at best.

Norman Osborn, at least as usually written, is Cheney on steroids, and in armor. He is clearly written as a psychotic manifestation of all that is bad with conservatives in power. The only reason this is strange these days is because Dark Reign began with Democrats in power in Congress, and after Obama was elected by a wide margin. In 2009 it seemed like it was beating a dead horse at worst or preaching to the choir at best.

9/11 actually cause bi-partisan rallying for the president and his cronies, at least for a while. In real life, the new head of homeland security wasn't fired because of the X-Mas Day Bombing attempt. It took Bush until his second term to get rid of Rumsfield. This sort of thing happens.

In terms of the SIEGE story, the President (Obama) clearly does not want Osborn to lead his team and troops immediately into Asgard (within Oklahoma) before there is a proper investigation made. Osborn simply isn't listening. He's gathered his forces and heading into battle, like a general out of control. Which is precisely what he is. The point is when Stark ran everything, he allowed himself to be corrupted by the system, and employed an "ends justify the means" angle to some of his horrors, like 42. Osborn, on the other hand, is a definite madman who has no deep motive for order or justice; it is all about keeping power, rewarding his cronies, and punishing his enemies, real or imagined.

To give a Shi'ar example, Lilandra was hardly the most perfect or merciful queen; there were many messed up elements to her reign. Vulcan, on the other hand, was a clear sociopathic madman. The moral I guess is that "change" alone isn't enough. Which is an interesting moral for comic books since very little actually changes for long.

I have no idea. And neither do you. Sounds to me like you're mad HE'S Marvel's head writer...and You're not.

I doubt he would really care though.

No, I doubt he does.

To be honest I couldn't be Marvel's head writer. I can't juggle at least 3-6 ongoing titles at once, even with cookie cutter copy/paste dialogue. Hell, I haven't even finished a fan-fiction in about 6-7 years. I haven't worked with script style, and narrative is too long. I've more than given up writing comics as a pipe dream that will never happen to focus on the rest of my life, just like most kids who imagine being firemen or astronauts or cowboys. Or super-heroes.

Bendis' writing has a very snarky feel to it. Whether he personally like that is irrelevant. He feels the need to boost his stories with an unneeded body count and that isn't anything new; he offed Beast for no reason in his year-long run of ULTIMATE X-MEN and that was before his Avengers stuff started.

Siege #2 preview!

Yeah, even money is on Balder getting it.

It is worth noting that everyone who has tried to fight the Sentry within a year has beaten him. Thor. Venus. The X-Men. The friggin' Young Avengers. Anyone and everyone. Moon Knight didn't try, but if he did he would have won. Sentry at best has become the henchmen to a heel, the type who can be defeated with one "signature move" after a lot of bluster. Anyone, that is, but Balder. Even Balder ranks so low on the totem pole that Sentry is allowed to spank him.

Maria Hill is possible, and since Bendis created her, I'd not argue much if it was her. It's about time he had as much nerve to kill off one of his own precious characters as he clearly does killing off the characters created by other writers. I sincerely doubt it much for that specific reason. He knows no one gives a **** about characters he created. The only reason I would even care at all about Maria Hill dying, if she did, isn't due to Bendis, but Matt Fraction. Much as Peter David, not Bendis, made Layla Miller more interesting. I mean, did the world collapse when Sammy Silke bit it in DAREDEVIL?

It would be nice if one day an event could be a story and not a $4 cry for attention.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I think it's interesting that pretty much all the other Avengers have level 9 clearance, yet Sentry only has level 5 clearance. Says it all really.

 

[Dread]

I think it's interesting that pretty much all the other Avengers have level 9 clearance, yet Sentry only has level 5 clearance. Says it all really.

And Taskmaster only has a Level 2. Least they trust the Class 100 psychopath more than Tasky.

 

[Aesop Rocks]

Tankmaster, eh.....eh....Tankmaster.....eh....You know he's just going to get ****ed up early on.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Taskmaster himself certainly seems to think so. He realized he's not cut out to roll with the psychos in the most recent issue of Avengers: The Initiative.

 

[Aesop Rocks]

Yep, #31 if I believe so. He basically **** his pants when Norman told him he was invading Asgard.

 

[runawayboulder]

I hope it's not Maria Hill. She's actually grown on me since she came on the scene back in 04.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

I'm hoping there's still some off chance that Spiderman is going to take Osborn down in Siege....

I'm with you there!

 

[Spider-Gnome]

That's probably not happening in issue two. I doubt Bendis would kill Osborn that early. If he did, he wouldn't give the win to Thor. He'd likely give it to Luke Cage.

Now Ares killing Osborn eventually...that's possible. I doubt in issue #2 but maybe by #3 or #4. Loki won't be exposed as the mastermind here. That'll be the event next year. Marvel doesn't end ANYTHING, silly. They haven't editorially figured the difference between a good beginning and a good ending since 2004. They're not going to magically rediscover it now. But that's just me being cynical.


There's a chance...just as much of a chance of winning first prize in the lottery. Bendis writes Spider-Man as an incompetent, emasculated man-child who has never won a solo adventure battle in his entire career beyond by luck. He never gives Spidey anything to say that isn't a wisecrack and never writes as if Spider-Man has any more experience than, say, Gravity. Which makes that alright for Ultimate Spider-Man (albeit still silly after over 130 issues of material and at least 10-15 full adventure arcs no less, not counting those Team-Up issues). It was Luke Cage, in THE PULSE, who exposed Osborn and put him in jail, right in front of Peter. Despite the fact that Spidey has over a decade's experience in actual published comics over Cage, that's the guy who has more experience in Bendis' eyes.

Personally, I think Spider-Man would have been a better fit for the Fantastic Four than the Avengers, but even as an Avenger, he should offer much more competence and experience than he does. Part of his wise-cracking should be fueled by genuine, "I have fought everything from villains to aliens to vampires to zombies to gods to demons to robots and anything in between" confidence, at least with the mask on. That isn't who Bendis writes. Bendis writes Spider-Man as a hero who as been more lucky than wise to have lasted this long in the biz.

I'd be willing to be money that if anyone takes Osborn down when it counts, it won't be Spider-Man. Hell, I'd put even odds on it being a villain.

Sadly, I think you're right on your points on Bendis and Spider-Man. It seems clear, particularly from issue #1's cover, that it's aiming at restoring the Big Three and they will probably bring Norman down.

And I REALLY hope he's not planning on killing off Norman. I was actually one of the old timers that was happy to see Norman return. Heck, it is current rise in power that has actually gotten me interested in the Marvel Universe again, and not just Spidey's little corner of it. His death here will seem anti-climatic in scheme of the Spider-Man mythos. But, as you stated, they have done that in the past with Luke Cage in the Pulse.

 

[Dread]

Tankmaster, eh.....eh....Tankmaster.....eh....You know he's just going to get ****ed up early on.

Taskmaster himself certainly seems to think so. He realized he's not cut out to roll with the psychos in the most recent issue of Avengers: The Initiative.

I expect AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE's tie in's to handle Taskmaster's perspective more. I mean, he has become one of the stars of the book since Dark Reign started.

I hope it's not Maria Hill. She's actually grown on me since she came on the scene back in 04.

I agree, but not because of Bendis. The writer who rehabilitated the character for me was Matt Fraction in INVINCIBLE IRON MAN.

Still, Bendis created Maria Hill, so if anyone has the right to off her, it is him.

Sadly, I think you're right on your points on Bendis and Spider-Man. It seems clear, particularly from issue #1's cover, that it's aiming at restoring the Big Three and they will probably bring Norman down.

And I REALLY hope he's not planning on killing off Norman. I was actually one of the old timers that was happy to see Norman return. Heck, it is current rise in power that has actually gotten me interested in the Marvel Universe again, and not just Spidey's little corner of it. His death here will seem anti-climatic in scheme of the Spider-Man mythos. But, as you stated, they have done that in the past with Luke Cage in the Pulse.

Indeed. To be fair, death hasn't stopped Norman before. He can always "recover in Europe".

To be honest, Dark Reign would have worked better had Osborn not been revealed outright as the Green Goblin, tried and convicted. That would mean, of course, planning ahead all those years ago for "a story seven years in the making".

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I hope Tasky doesn't get killed off. He's a great character as proven in Initiative. Plus I just ****in love him.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

And Taskmaster only has a Level 2. Least they trust the Class 100 psychopath more than Tasky.

I doubt it has anything to do with trust. It's more like one of those high school clique's.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I have to say, what a great issue this was. Can't wait for #2!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

To be honest, Dark Reign would have worked better had Osborn not been revealed outright as the Green Goblin, tried and convicted. That would mean, of course, planning ahead all those years ago for "a story seven years in the making".

How would Osborn have gotten to his current position if he weren't put in charge of the Thunderbolts, though? His conviction kind of goes hand-in-hand with his rise to power.

It seems pretty much only the Spider-Man fans want to see Spider-Man take Norman down at this point. I understand it since they're nemeses and all, but I think it's a vain hope. Pretty much everything about this event says that the big three are gonna take center stage and do all the climactic stuff, which I imagine would include taking Osborn down. But I'm sure Spider-Man will at least be there when all of the non-Dark Avengers come to Asgard's aid.

 

[WompuM]

You need to read some more Marvel my friend

I know, I just don't have the $$$.

So apparently taking a story that one admits to knowing maybe half the background of and then trashing it with an heir of superiority is supposed to be a good thing?

Trashing it? I really enjoyed it. It had Volstagg in Chicago! Did he take the Megabus or walk!? I don't know! No, you're right. I didn't really make clear my feeling of how excited I am to see this fight go down. But if the poor innocent Oklahomans are hurt, there's going to be one angry Womp *****ing on the internet.

That's Womp-mire!

Gigity gigity goo!



Na Womps cool, he's just DC through and through!

You honor me.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

1. Volstagg. With an O.

2. He took a damned horse. That's what all Asgardians take except Thor. The particularly flashy ones take a flying horse, which I'm hoping we'll see a few of in Siege.

 

[WompuM]

I see their point though. It would be like the Trinity taking down Sinestro. The downside with having Osborn be the big-bad is, what's next? Does he go back to being a Spider-rogue? Does he die? I prefer in situations such as these, where stories need a definitive ending where the villains story outright ends, that it be a new, or seldom used villain. Take Nekron for instance. Part of his allure is the fact that so little is known about him and at the end of Blackest Night, odds are he'll have a definitive ending. (Granted, part of his allure is wearing off since all he does is stand in a parking lot.) Can they really kill off Norman Osborn forever? How, after this, if he is defeated, and lives, will he ever be as big of a threat as he is in Siege? This is his coup de grace. Any evil attempts after this will just seem small and insignificant in comparison.

And I meant to put this in my review but forgot.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Personally, while I originally wanted Wolverine to kill Osborn, I'm starting to hope that Ares will do it now.

 

[Anubis]

I'd much rather he simply be disgraced, and has to go on the run, finding himself suddenly in charge of the Hood's Costumed Consortium of Villainy. Preferably he totally kills the hell out of him before he takes over.

 

[WompuM]

Personally, while I originally wanted Wolverine to kill Osborn, I'm starting to hope that Ares will do it now.

Sorry, a little behind on Marvel. What motivation does Wolverine have to kill Osborn? Also, why is Sentry a villain?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe the Sentry does it. Maybe it's Osborn's skull in that preview.

I really like the idea of the Void taking over and being a super-badass villain.

 

[Anubis]

Osborne talked him into it, and technically he's not a villain. Technically none of the Dark Avengers are villains. Technically the good Avengers are villains. Oh that wonky Marvel Universe.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Sorry, a little behind on Marvel. What motivation does Wolverine have to kill Osborn? Also, why is Sentry a villain?

He's not, he's just crazy and weak-willed, so Osborn's manipulated him into being his lapdog. The Dark Avengers are pretty much set up as villains pretending to be heroes so they can reap the benefits of being heroes, but Osborn keeps the facade up to the Sentry so that he can believe he's actually doing good.

Ares seems to have developed some predilections toward true heroism as well for a number of reasons (not least of which being that he's a god and he views Osborn as little more than a temporary change in leadership for the Avengers).

 

[hippie_hunter]

Sorry, a little behind on Marvel. What motivation does Wolverine have to kill Osborn?

I've just been under the impression that Wolverine cares for Spider-Man too much to let him kill Osborn. In my mind, I would have Spider-Man take down Osborn and with all that he's done is finally pushed over the edge to kill Osborn, but Wolverine stops him and does it for him. In return for all the hope that Spider-Man has in Wolverine, Wolverine refuses to let blood cover Spider-Man's hands.

Also, why is Sentry a villain?

He isn't. The Dark Avengers while filled with supervillains, were also filled with heroes as well (Captain Marvel, Sentry, and Ares). Captain Marvel fled because he was horrified over the fact that the Avengers are mostly comprised of supervillains, Ares somewhat agrees with Osborn's methods and just sees him as the person currently in charge like Tony Stark and Nick Fury, and the Sentry is manipulated by Osborn because Osborn takes advantage of his mental illness.