Simon Gets The Pressure!!!!

[XCharlieX]

Okay, then...


Maybe I´m one of the few around here that don´t consider B.B. that good. By the end of the movie I was looking at my watch, quite bored.

That whole film was for the "less is more" crowd. If someone wanted some kind of "pow zam!" comic action wrong movie.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I agree. I was just saying what one of them said. It was during the whole running time drama and I think it was Simon who said Batman Begins was too long and wouldn't have suffered by losing 20-25 minutes of footage.

I just want to know when will he answer the questions of misleading fans? I understand he has other things to do, and that's perfectly natural, especially when you're a screenwriter and working on big time movies. However, a lot of fans(including myself) felt misled by his promises.

In my eyes I just wish they would've been honest from the beginning.

they were honest from the begning.. they wrote what they wrote, and told you. If things were left on the cutting room floor that doesnt mean they lied.. the phoenix effect for instance was suppose to be there.. the writers were on set alot, but in no way does that mean they were there EVERY single day. it also means they weren't there in the editing room when things were cut. so sorry, but in my opinion they were honest. What the probably didnt want to do due to spoilers was if they said something was in, and they found out it was cut or scratched.. it became a spoiler to retract it. wich all of you would have thrown a hissy fit regardless..

 

[LastSunrise1981]

they were honest from the begning.. they wrote what they wrote, and told you. If things were left on the cutting room floor that doesnt mean they lied.. the phoenix effect for instance was suppose to be there.. the writers were on set alot, but in no way does that mean they were there EVERY single day. it also means they weren't there in the editing room when things were cut. so sorry, but in my opinion they were honest. What the probably didnt want to do due to spoilers was if they said something was in, and they found out it was cut or scratched.. it became a spoiler to retract it. wich all of you would have thrown a hissy fit regardless..

Actually they did say quite a few lies and misled a lot of people. When fans constantly asked them about Cyclops fate they dodged the question; then when the proof began to show itself about it they ran away.

Sounds like you're an apologist though. We should just accept what Zakk and Simon say with no questions asked, when it's quite clear that they misled fans with their empty promises.

Don't make empty promises if you don't intend to keep them or fight for them in the movie.

They lied about the Phoenix Effect, lied about Cyclops, lied about Angel in the final battle, lied about the Ice Slide, and lied about Rogue doing anything of merit in the film. There was a lot a fabrications thrown around and we(as fans) have every right to question them. Don't like it? Tough luck.

 

[Farren]

Did Zak even answer any questions? I didn't see any response from them.

Yes, he did.

They're posted within his Q and A thread. They start on page 4 here:

http://www.thexverse.com/community/showthread.php?t=762&page=4

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Actually they did say quite a few lies and misled a lot of people. When fans constantly asked them about Cyclops fate they dodged the question; then when the proof began to show itself about it they ran away.

maybe because i dunno.. it was a major spoiler?

Sounds like you're an apologist though. We should just accept what Zakk and Simon say with no questions asked, when it's quite clear that they misled fans with their empty promises.

they said what they thought at the time.. and people forget there under contract.. sometimes they have to tell a white lie in order for a spoiler to to get out

Don't make empty promises if you don't intend to keep them or fight for them in the movie.

i dont remember them flat out saying "i promise this will happen blah blah blah.. and if they did then they were wrong to begin with because in the movie buisness there is no promises.

They lied about the Phoenix Effect, lied about Cyclops, lied about Angel in the final battle, lied about the Ice Slide, and lied about Rogue doing anything of merit in the film. There was a lot a fabrications thrown around and we(as fans) have every right to question them. Don't like it? Tough luck.

They did not lie about the phoenix effect.. they thought it was going to be in it.. hell you can even tell the lighting in that scene was made for it.. look at jean REALLLY look at jean.. they shine a bright white light on her.. this is done so that way she would glow with the digital FX added.. hell we even see the concept for it.. the Phoenix Effect was PLANNED. but was cut most likely for time. they DID NOT LIE ABOUT IT

Cyke again. read what i already said about that.

The ice slide was also suppose to be in the film.. but got cut

Rogue did do something of merit.. she was the heart and soul.. and pain just like shes been in EVERY x-movie

so if you my friend dont like it tough luck

 

[Jager X]

Rogue did do something of merit.. she was the heart and soul.. and pain just like shes been in EVERY x-movie

what the f^ck are you talking about?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Shes the heart and soul of the X-men Movies... shes the one who brought Wolverine to the X-mansion... and the reason he even fought, he didnt fight anyone in X1 for any other reason but for rogue.

in X2 she represented the kids at the mansion struggling with there powers and how to use them while still remaining to be the tortured soul..

and in X3 she was still the heart, for once she could make a decision on her own.. she grew up, it her life shes allowed to do what she wants with it. I think Rogue's power out of all the X-men is a power that people can relate to the most and it hits home.. because it the inability to feel. She doesnt shoot lazers, have claws, teleport, shoot lightening, or read minds.. NO one can relate to those. But what people can relate to is not fitting in, fearing hurting someone, fearing to get close to someone, adolesence and making a choice.. Movie rogue imo may not be the sassy super heroine we know, she might not have bullet proof skin and can fly, but shes still the strongest X-men.. with or without powers

 

[MoviesKickAss]

maybe because i dunno.. it was a major spoiler?

That does not give them the right to lie & piss off the Fans in the end. They never should have done these Q&As. They should have said they just can not talk about certain things period. But no they chosed to mislead the fans. I dont see them or any Future Comic Book Movie Writer doing something like this ever again

 

[flavio_lebeau]

Shes the heart and soul of the X-men Movies... shes the one who brought Wolverine to the X-mansion... and the reason he even fought, he didnt fight anyone in X1 for any other reason but for rogue.

in X2 she represented the kids at the mansion struggling with there powers and how to use them while still remaining to be the tortured soul..

and in X3 she was still the heart, for once she could make a decision on her own.. she grew up, it her life shes allowed to do what she wants with it. I think Rogue's power out of all the X-men is a power that people can relate to the most and it hits home.. because it the inability to feel. She doesnt shoot lazers, have claws, teleport, shoot lightening, or read minds.. NO one can relate to those. But what people can relate to is not fitting in, fearing hurting someone, fearing to get close to someone, adolesence and making a choice.. Movie rogue imo may not be the sassy super heroine we know, she might not have bullet proof skin and can fly, but shes still the strongest X-men.. with or without powers

i wouldnt mind her arc and decision if she had more 5 minutes of screentime struggling. Even average moviegoers think Rogue's arc was way too underdeveloped. She just sees it, goes take it and appears in the end. This is not what anyone was expeecting from a character that maybe should have the biggest screentime and be the center of a plot. She's nothing more than a special cameo.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

That does not give them the right to lie & piss off the Fans in the end. They never should have done these Q&As. They should have said they just can not talk about certain things period. But no they chosed to mislead the fans. I dont see them or any Future Comic Book Movie Writer doing something like this ever again

They never lied about scott though, they said they did the best with the time they had for him and think they gave him respect.. wich i agree with..

they never commented on if he lived or died.. and they weren't allowed to. Hows not saying something a lie?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

i wouldnt mind her arc and decision if she had more 5 minutes of screentime struggling. Even average moviegoers think Rogue's arc was way too underdeveloped. She just sees it, goes take it and appears in the end. This is not what anyone was expeecting from a character that maybe should have the biggest screentime and be the center of a plot. She's nothing more than a special cameo.

agreed, but if you analyse the film she still has a very important purpose plus on a lighter note.. Simon wants to include her in the young X-men spin off, so we havent heard the last of rogue

 

[flavio_lebeau]

agreed, but if you analyse the film she still has a very important purpose plus on a lighter note.. Simon wants to include her in the young X-men spin off, so we havent heard the last of rogue

i think Zak was the one who wants to include her in the youn spin-off...
anyway, she could have had a wonderful development in X3, and she hadnt. Besides that 30 seconds scene with Logan, you never really know whats on Rogue's mind. I agree with her taking the cure, i agree with Zak when he said that it would be incredibly cheesy if they developed a cure and no one in the movie had the balls to take it. But its the way she takes it that bothers me.

Heck i cant help but imagine a scene of Rogue in the cure clinic, lying in that bed (just like Angel's) with her eyes full of tears about to come out, her decided look, and then the needle reaches her, she closes her eyes strongly for 3 seconds and gives a lil smile...that would be perfect. Even in a way to show the opposite situation of Angel...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

i think Zak was the one who wants to include her in the youn spin-off...
anyway, she could have had a wonderful development in X3, and she hadnt. Besides that 30 seconds scene with Logan, you never really know whats on Rogue's mind. I agree with her taking the cure, i agree with Zak when he said that it would be incredibly cheesy if they developed a cure and no one in the movie had the balls to take it. But its the way she takes it that bothers me.

Heck i cant help but imagine a scene of Rogue in the cure clinic, lying in that bed (just like Angel's) with her eyes full of tears about to come out, her decided look, and then the needle reaches her, she closes her eyes strongly for 3 seconds and gives a lil smile...that would be perfect. Even in a way to show the opposite situation of Angel...

exactly.. but it ruins the did she or didnt she scene when she goes back with iceman.. your suppose to not know till she says it. its a writing element wich i actually agree with because it does surprise you.

I look at things this way.. in all the X-men movies other characters are shuffled around in order to make room for others.. (there focus is based on story importance and most dominating)

X1 focused on Wolverine, Rogue, Magneto, Prof X
while the 2ndary characters were Cyclops, Jean, and Senator Kelly

X2 focused on Wolverine, Stryker, Magneto
and the 2ndary characters were Prof X, Jean, Nightcrawler
Rogue got bumped down, iceman got bumped up, mystique got bumped up and scott got bumped down

X3 focused on Wolverine, Magneto, Storm, Prof X, Jean, and the cure
2ndary characters were Beast, Angel, Iceman, Kitty, pyro
rogue, cyclops, mystique, all took the back burner and were bumped down again yet all 3 formed a triangle around the story that i felt was pretty pivital and i think the movie would have suffered greatly without there archs and development

 

[LMason]

That does not give them the right to lie & piss off the Fans in the end. They never should have done these Q&As. They should have said they just can not talk about certain things period. But no they chosed to mislead the fans. I dont see them or any Future Comic Book Movie Writer doing something like this ever again

I read them just as much as anyone and even though I'm disappointed in the movie, I'm not at all disappointed in the Q&A's. I thought they answered as truthfully as they could. Knowing that Fox basically demanded Cyclops not be in the movie, I'm just glad we got him for the 5 minutes we did.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I read them just as much as anyone and even though I'm disappointed in the movie, I'm not at all disappointed in the Q&A's. I thought they answered as truthfully as they could. Knowing that Fox basically demanded Cyclops not be in the movie, I'm just glad we got him for the 5 minutes we did.

No offense, then you'll always be happy with receiving the bare minimum.

Don't you see anything wrong with this? It's a lose lose situation. The fact that they didn't want Cyclops in the film is a cardinal sin, however, the fact that he's in it for five minutes is just as bad, simply due to the fact that it's the Phoenix Saga.

The Phoenix Saga is about Cyclops and Jean. It's not about Wolverine or Jean showing their true love for one another.

So in actuality it's a no win situation.

It's not Simons or Zakks fault though. I blame them for misleading fans and not being truthful from the beginning; but I don't blame them for the stupidity of Rothman and Fox in general.

 

[invincible mann]

show me one scene in X3 where jean expressed her true love for logan
the words "i love you logan"
dont appear in the film

 

[LastSunrise1981]

show me one scene in X3 where jean expressed her true love for logan
the words "i love you logan"
dont appear in the film

It doesn't happen. But for Logan to be the centerpiece of the Phoenix saga is an insult to the fans of the story.

I understand Wolverine is a popular character, and that a lot of non-fans and overzealous fans like him, however, the Phoenix Saga has always been about Cyclops and Jean till the very end.

I rolled my eyes when Logan said "I'm the only one who can stop her".

Stop being an apologist and just call it for what it is.

 

[lordofthenerds]

show me one scene in X3 where jean expressed her true love for logan
the words "i love you logan"
dont appear in the film

She wants to have hardcore sex with him on a steel table.

 

[gambitfire]

i don't think ppl shouldn't love the movie but ppl who love it seemed way too forgivable. w/e that's their problem i was really dissapointed with what they did with movie Rogue and i don't think giving her the cure was a good thing, it's like you mean i don't have to be black or hispanic alright give me some of that
As for what they did to Cyke's will never stop being wrong the reason i blame the writers their is cuz one of them worked on X2 and it seemed like X2 setup for Cyke to be Jean's Hero.

X1 focused on Wolverine, Rogue, Magneto, Prof X
while the 2ndary characters were Cyclops, Jean, and Senator Kelly

X2 focused on Wolverine, Stryker, Magneto
and the 2ndary characters were Prof X, Jean, Nightcrawler
Rogue got bumped down, iceman got bumped up, mystique got bumped up and scott got bumped down

X3 focused on Wolverine, Magneto, Storm, Prof X, Jean, and the cure
2ndary characters were Beast, Angel, Iceman, Kitty, pyro
rogue, cyclops, mystique, all took the back burner and were bumped down again yet all 3 formed a triangle around the story that i felt was pretty pivital and i think the movie would have suffered greatly without there archs and development

Notice Never Cyke , Notice always Wolverine. and the 2 bold are what's wrong with X3


Edit- one more thing i just noticed................what the hell do you mean the movie would of suffered greatly if those 3 archs hand't been?! With how little Rogue they had, if she hadn't taken the cure it wouldn't of made a difference except maybe the movie would of sucked less.

 

[MaleRogue]

did Simon or Zakk say that the powers will come back after they take the cure...also for Rogue?

 

[LMason]

No offense, then you'll always be happy with receiving the bare minimum.

Not a fair assumption to make based on that one comment alone. I'm a fan of Marsden and was happy he was brought back into the movie.

Don't you see anything wrong with this? It's a lose lose situation. The fact that they didn't want Cyclops in the film is a cardinal sin, however, the fact that he's in it for five minutes is just as bad, simply due to the fact that it's the Phoenix Saga.

Look, I have all kinds of problems with the way they handled the Phoenix Saga in this movie. Famke standing around for most of the third act is just unforgivable. However, Singer set the Wolverine-Jean love story above the Jean-Cyclops one. Even though she "chose" Scott, the heat between those characters (Jean and Cyclops) NEVER existed in the previous two movies. A shame really, since you can tell that Famke and Jimmy do have chemistry between them through their interviews together. Singer's post-X2 interviews suggested that Cyclops would have played a bigger part had he had complete control, but who knows what Fox asked. We can't pretend that Fox doesn't make the final decision here. And if we went from not having Cyclops at all and the actor fired from the project, to at least having some sense of Cyclops losing his mind over Jean's death, then I'll take the latter.

The Phoenix Saga is about Cyclops and Jean. It's not about Wolverine or Jean showing their true love for one another.

See above.

It's not Simons or Zakks fault though. I blame them for misleading fans and not being truthful from the beginning; but I don't blame them for the stupidity of Rothman and Fox in general.

And now back on topic. Again, I do not feel I was mislead by Simon or Zak for a second. I think they like the movie more than I do. But through their Q&A's, I thought they were pretty honest, an opinion I especially believe in after having just read Zak's new responses. I thought the editing was pretty pathetic, and that the movie was just rushed. And I was never really a "Let Joss direct X3" shipper, but after reading how he would have focused on the characters they already had instead of focusing on new ones (though I'd have to think he'd be reintroducing Kitty Pryde), I wish that's the road X3 would have taken.

In conclusion, I don't feel mislead. I just feel deflated because I didn't like the movie as much as I would have liked (considering how many hours upon hours of paper-writing-procrastination I've done on this board in the last year, I was quite sad).

 

[oneteen]

^Good post.

 

[gambitfire]

Well to be fair i don't blame the writers on decisions, i blame them on bad dialogue and story

 

[spideyboy_1111]

i don't think ppl shouldn't love the movie but ppl who love it seemed way too forgivable. w/e that's their problem i was really dissapointed with what they did with movie Rogue and i don't think giving her the cure was a good thing, it's like you mean i don't have to be black or hispanic alright give me some of that
As for what they did to Cyke's will never stop being wrong the reason i blame the writers their is cuz one of them worked on X2 and it seemed like X2 setup for Cyke to be Jean's Hero.




Notice Never Cyke , Notice always Wolverine. and the 2 bold are what's wrong with X3


Edit- one more thing i just noticed................what the hell do you mean the movie would of suffered greatly if those 3 archs hand't been?! With how little Rogue they had, if she hadn't taken the cure it wouldn't of made a difference except maybe the movie would of sucked less.

because all 3 grounded the plot and made it far more serious. cyclop's death shows how uncontrolable phoenix is and the biggest impact you can get from that is honestly her killing the one she loves.. or she could have leveled a city... angel and rogue both grounded the cure arch and also made it hit home for alot of people

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Well to be fair i don't blame the writers on decisions, i blame them on bad dialogue and story

what was so bad about it? I watch alot of movies and really didn't notice anything that horribly stood out in X3.. like X1's "do you know what happen's to a toad when its struck by lightening?"