Singer nay or yah

Mdizzle said:
Pyro vs. Bobby...I can't stop bringing it up, but it was such a disappointment! Let's do this...I think I might have laughed a little bit.

That to me looked like a cheap ripoff of DragonBall Z than a great duel that we thought it would be between two really angry superheroes.
 
ntcrawler said:
I don't think that Bryan's version would be worse than what we got from Ratner. It may have been different, but I doubt it would be anything so bad that people would actually get sick or something.

Personally I feel the main difference if Singer wrote up X3 besides changes in how the Phoenix element was treated would be taking out the Cure storyline altogether. In X1 and X2 he made references that there really was no quick, easy way to "cure" a mutation. That there is no instant remedy to stop being a mutant, just like there is no "remedy" for being black or asian, or no instant remedy for being fat (no substitute for dieting and hard work). Acceptance, tolerance, working hard at controlling your gifts and developing them was the answer I believe Singer was trying to promote through his stories in X1 and X2, because there wasnt' supposed to be an easy way out, as Rogue had thought in X1 in that extra classroom scene with Storm, or when Stryker thought Xavier could cure his son of his mutation.

Sorry I never replied to your post, crawler, I must have missed it.

Anyways, I don't think that Singer's version would have been "worse", so to speak, but there are certain little things in Ratner's (rather, Kinberg & Penn's) film that I dunno that Bryan Singer would have done.

The first thing that comes to mind is Magneto's terrorist tape on the TV. Even though that's really small, I thought that was a brilliant addition to Magneto's character, and is totally in line with the comic book Magneto. I loved that.

Singer's version, I'd imagine, wouldn't have killed Cyclops or cured Rogue. There would have been more depth and buildup to the fallout between Pyro and Iceman. If given a big enough budget (and after the success of X2, I think he would have been), we probably still would have gotten Angel and Beast. Singer also wanted to add in Gambit (my biggest disappointment with the franchise). Again, budget allowing, we still would have gotten the Danger Room probably. And instead of characters like Arclight and Quill, we would have had Emma Frost and the Hellfire Club, and you're right, a more fleshed out Phoenix Saga.

The things in the movie we got that I liked that I dunno we would have gotten under Singer:

-The cure plotline. I understand your opinion against it, but I thought that it was a really brilliant plotline, the best concept of the 3 (not executed as well as the other 2 movies, but the best concept).

-Magneto's previously mentioned terrorist tape.

-Beast... after seeing how perfectly he was done in this film, I'm just wondering how well Singer would have handled Beast. Would we have gotten "Oh my stars and garters"? Would we have gotten his back & forth with Wolverine in the final battle?

There were also rumors about Singer's movie that I didn't like the sound of... namely, the lack of Storm. Don't like how Nightcrawler was dropped? Bryan wanted to do the exact same thing to Storm.

I dunno... we'll never know unfortunatley. I think overall, I'd like Bryan Singer's movie better than what we got, but what we got has a lot of things that I can truly appreciate that I dunno we would have gotten under Singer. That's why I would have liked to have seen Singer direct THIS script. For me, it would have been the best of both worlds. The concepts and events that I really like (and are the things I think this film does better than X-Men or X-Men: United), but the pacing, and depth that Singer brings to the table, that'd really build up the events and make the final payoff that much more enjoyable.
 
Nell2ThaIzzay said:
-The cure plotline. I understand your opinion against it, but I thought that it was a really brilliant plotline, the best concept of the 3 (not executed as well as the other 2 movies, but the best concept).

That 'brilliant plotline' was introduced by Tom Rothman not the writers, and while it's a great idea, it was dealt in such a sloppy way (Beast, Cyclops and Rouge should be most intrigued by it - what did we get? A raging Storm preaching against it, and Rouge taking it? wtf?)

That plot line had nothing to do in a movie dealing with the Phoenix. (at least not the way it was handled)
 
i will continue to say that i would have disbelieved the movie rogue not taking the cure she would have so taken it comic rogue no way
 
I think Singers X3 would have been awesome, far better than what we got, Just like SR was.
 
i gave SR a 4/10 the story sucked, not saying it didnt have story it had alot of it i just didnt like it
 
SatEL said:
After seeing what singer did to superman are you guys still upset he didnt direct X3?
singer's superman concept would of worked better for a x-movie anyway, think about it, set the movie 6 years after the events of x2 (though, no one in the cast ages, in fact some get recasted to be younger lol) anyway, Jean return after the 6 years, every one has moved on all believing she is die, she finds out that Scott is now engaged to Emma Frost, (and maybe, ya, they have a kid, lol) meanwhile magneto is plotting to use alien technology to enhance his powers, to be able to manipulate the natural metal elements of the earths core to raise new massive land masses, to create a new land for the mutants, and destroy all major cities and kill millions, no billions! (magneto, is gathering mass groups of mutants to follow him, in his leadership to rule the new world he’s creating) after magneto finds out about Jeans return, he knows that she is the only one that can stop him, so, he goes after her, along with the rest of the x-men. did I mention that Emma and Scott’s kid, is really a clone of jean, and it has all the same powers as her, which comes in to play later in the plot. and if you haven’t figured it out yet, I am being sarcastic. LOL
I thought, X3 was fine the way it was (like any movie, there was room for improvement, but, it still worked for me)
 
CapBeerCino said:
Rouge was making a slow progress and I'm 100% sure that with Singer on board her arc wouldn't end with her taking the cure and losing her powers (which goes against everything the x-men stands for, and Rogue in particular)

Regarding Cyke- even though he gone for most of x-2- you didn't see fans foaming at the mouth while leaving the theatre, and again - with Singer on board Scott wouldn't die at the begining of the Phoenix saga!

I am glad you are 100% sure to bad its not fact based at all and your 100% assuredness means nothing.
Singer would have done pretty much the same thing Ratner did and you know why???? BECAUSE FOX WOULD HAVE MADE HIM JUST LIKE THEY DID Ratner....
Why people refuse to accept that boggles the mind you all act like Singer would have had more control and that is just not the case.

I will concede your one point if Singer had stayed on board Scott may not have died so early in the movie only because the actor would not have been in SR which is why FOX had parts of him in the movie cut out.

He would still most likley have been killed because again that decision came from FOX because it had to follow Singer's xmen which as we all know is the Wolverine story so yeh he would have still been the one with her at the end and Scott would have probably still ended up dead.

As for Singer no thanks Ratner did a fine job of cleaning up the mess he made doing X1 and X2.
Singer made major mistakes to numerous to mention when he gave us his version of the Xmen so many of them are not anything like there comic book counterparts they are supposed to be based off of.
The ones who nailed the parts are the saving grace of x1 and X2 Magneto by Ian perfect Xavier played by Patrick was perfect and while Hugh nailed the part he was not perfect because they just made him to damn tall and they could have easily made him appear shorter the same way they did for the hobbits in LOTR.
The rest were so far from there comic book counterparts it was as if they were just using the names and made up the charcters themselves.

So again how is it fair to blame Ratner???? if anyone is to blame it would be the heads of FOX whom made many decisons about the Xmen movies or Singer for getting them wrong in the first place.

Good directors can do action movies with drama/charcter develoment, Singer can do drama but his action lacks greatly, Ratner can do action but his drama lacks....and both had to answer to Tom Rothman at FOX....
 
that nate is exactly how i feel about the x-men trilogy
 
NateGray said:
Singer would have done pretty much the same thing Ratner did and you know why???? BECAUSE FOX WOULD HAVE MADE HIM JUST LIKE THEY DID Ratner....

In that case SINGER WOULDN'T HAVE MADE IT (look I can use caps-lock as well - yay me! :rolleyes: )

Singer understood the allegory behind the x-men and Rogue taking the cure as a solution to her problems wouldn't happen.
 
CapBeerCino said:
Rouge was making a slow progress and I'm 100% sure that with Singer on board her arc wouldn't end with her taking the cure and losing her powers (which goes against everything the x-men stands for, and Rogue in particular)

Regarding Cyke- even though he gone for most of x-2- you didn't see fans foaming at the mouth while leaving the theatre, and again - with Singer on board Scott wouldn't die at the begining of the Phoenix saga!

Rogue's slow progress can be looked at as Singer relegating her story to the back-burner. Her character arc was no different at the end of X2 than it was at the beginning of the movie. She was cast aside...period.

And honestly I don't blame Ratner for taking out Cyclops early. In the X-Men movie-verse what good was he? Singer **** on Scott for 2 straight movies...did absolutely nothing with him and made him look like a spare tire. Do you think Ratner is going to treat Scott's character with respect if Singer didn't? Nope. Had Singer laid down some groundwork for him in the previous films then maybe his character would have been more relevant in XMLS.
 
movie rogue was a weak whiny little girl who wanted to be normal, her only power was to absorb others power and pycie(sp) when offered a chance to be normal she took it and i think she would have. comicbook rogue was not anything like movie rogue and that is why she would turn down the cure. i concur with the cyclopes eval also he was wasted for all three movies but ratner only wasted him after singer did
 
CapBeerCino said:
In that case SINGER WOULDN'T HAVE MADE IT (look I can use caps-lock as well - yay me! :rolleyes: )

Singer understood the allegory behind the x-men and Rogue taking the cure as a solution to her problems wouldn't happen.

HOORAY FOR UPPERCASE!!! IT MAKES IT SOUND LIKE WE'RE SHOUTING EVERYTHING EVEN WHEN WE'RE BEING QUIET.

Yes, Singer had an intelligent approach. He set up X1 and X2 to show that there is no quick, magic, instant "cure" to the handicaps and troubles that come from being a mutant. Just like you can't cure yourself from being black, or Asian, or take a pill to lose 100 pounds as an alternative to dieting and maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Too bad Penn and Kinberg weren't so intelligent about that. His Rogue would continue to grow and accept herself and her role in life, not run out first chance she got in order to be able to pork Bobby without sucking the lifeforce out of him.
 
ntcrawler said:
HOORAY FOR UPPERCASE!!! IT MAKES IT SOUND LIKE WE'RE SHOUTING EVERYTHING EVEN WHEN WE'RE BEING QUIET.

Yes, Singer had an intelligent approach. He set up X1 and X2 to show that there is no quick, magic, instant "cure" to the handicaps and troubles that come from being a mutant. Just like you can't cure yourself from being black, or Asian, or take a pill to lose 100 pounds as an alternative to dieting and maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Too bad Penn and Kinberg weren't so intelligent about that. His Rogue would continue to grow and accept herself and her role in life, not run out first chance she got in order to be able to pork Bobby without sucking the lifeforce out of him.

I don't know why this is so funny. But I'm still laughing about it. :woot:
 
ntcrawler said:
HOORAY FOR UPPERCASE!!! IT MAKES IT SOUND LIKE WE'RE SHOUTING EVERYTHING EVEN WHEN WE'RE BEING QUIET.

Yes, Singer had an intelligent approach. He set up X1 and X2 to show that there is no quick, magic, instant "cure" to the handicaps and troubles that come from being a mutant. Just like you can't cure yourself from being black, or Asian, or take a pill to lose 100 pounds as an alternative to dieting and maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Too bad Penn and Kinberg weren't so intelligent about that. His Rogue would continue to grow and accept herself and her role in life, not run out first chance she got in order to be able to pork Bobby without sucking the lifeforce out of him.


michael jackson turned himself white so it can be done, and in the first two movies it was believed that there was no way to take away mutations
 
Singer gets a :up: from me with his movies.

Ratner get's a :up: from me for the Rush Hour movies only.
 
Ratner gets a :up: for future x-men movies.
Singer gets a :up: for future superman films so that he can make more supercrap and boxoffice flops.
 
SatEL said:
After seeing what singer did to superman are you guys still upset he didnt direct X3?
Yep.
 
after seeing what he did to SR..... im not disapointed he couldnt direct
 
hitmanyr2k said:
Rogue's slow progress can be looked at as Singer relegating her story to the back-burner. Her character arc was no different at the end of X2 than it was at the beginning of the movie. She was cast aside...period.

You mean the end of x-2 where she's in uniform (ironicly) taking a stand? Remeber what the professor said about her in x-1? That she could choose whether she will re-join the world as an educated young woman or stay on to teach others and become what the children fondly call an "X-men?"

Yep, no character arc there...

In x-1 Rogue ask Storm if xavier can "cure" her, and Storm gently explained to her "that's not how it works" then TLS creators came and ruined her arc.

I'm pretty sure they have no idea what's the message behind Rogue taking the cure, though i'd love to hear it. I'm half temped to rent the DVD and listen to the commentaries just to see what stood behind the creative decisions making.
 
CapBeerCino said:
In x-1 Rogue ask Storm if xavier can "cure" her, and Storm gently explained to her "that's not how it works" then TLS creators came and ruined her arc.

I'm pretty sure they have no idea what's the message behind Rogue taking the cure, though i'd love to hear it. I'm half temped to rent the DVD and listen to the commentaries just to see what stood behind the creative decisions making.

Come on! Why bother with all the hard work and stress! At Worthington Laboratories, we can make life easy! We'lll solve it all for you in 5 minutes!

We know how you feel. You're different and that's bad. You want to fit in. Extra limbs and appendages getting in the way? Skin color just not that right shade of green? You kill your loved ones with a single touch? We can help! Don't want to bother with the paperwork and inconvenience of the Mutant Registration Act? We can help! All your problems can be solved by a little injection, using a secret formula developed in our secret laboratories. Contact your mutation specialist for further details.

Disclaimer: taking the cure may induce violent convulsions and twitching. Curing my cause nausea, diarhea, upset stomach, problems with reproductive organs, and the feeling of withdrawal and depression as a result of sudden loss of special abilities or extra appendages.

Worthington Labs. Because acceptance and coping just isn't worth it.

Worthington Labs. Because Rothman's daughter loves the cure idea.
 
Lol, dont give them ideas - we might get that as a jingle in x-4...
 
Nell2ThaIzzay said:
There would have been more depth and buildup to the fallout between Pyro and Iceman.

I think I've posted in multiple threads about this, I completely agree.
Things were just simmering in X2...we got to explore the roots of Pyro's jealously/envy with just a look (when he glimpses the family photos at the Drake's place)...what must have been going through his head at that moment. How they used to be close...all of Pyro's own disappointment, with the way he's been treated by others, and of his own accomplishments possibly, and his and Bobby's own struggles to be accepted...wow. There could have been a lot more to their confrontation, it was definitely all set up in X2, but it fizzled in X3.
 
Nell2ThaIzzay said:
The things in the movie we got that I liked that I dunno we would have gotten under Singer:

-The cure plotline. I understand your opinion against it, but I thought that it was a really brilliant plotline, the best concept of the 3 (not executed as well as the other 2 movies, but the best concept).

-Beast... after seeing how perfectly he was done in this film, I'm just wondering how well Singer would have handled Beast. Would we have gotten "Oh my stars and garters"? Would we have gotten his back & forth with Wolverine in the final battle?

The cure plotline was interesting, but it seemed to fall flat for a couple of reasons, one of them being that no one except maybe Rogue seemed extra concerned with how it would directly affect them. The cure plotline should have been further explored.

Beast was great, IMO, but was still minimal enough. What about Beast dealing with the advent of the cure? Coulda seen that.
 
NateGray said:
I am glad you are 100% sure to bad its not fact based at all and your 100% assuredness means nothing.
Singer would have done pretty much the same thing Ratner did and you know why???? BECAUSE FOX WOULD HAVE MADE HIM JUST LIKE THEY DID Ratner....
Why people refuse to accept that boggles the mind you all act like Singer would have had more control and that is just not the case.

I will concede your one point if Singer had stayed on board Scott may not have died so early in the movie only because the actor would not have been in SR which is why FOX had parts of him in the movie cut out.

He would still most likley have been killed because again that decision came from FOX because it had to follow Singer's xmen which as we all know is the Wolverine story so yeh he would have still been the one with her at the end and Scott would have probably still ended up dead.

As for Singer no thanks Ratner did a fine job of cleaning up the mess he made doing X1 and X2.
Singer made major mistakes to numerous to mention when he gave us his version of the Xmen so many of them are not anything like there comic book counterparts they are supposed to be based off of.
The ones who nailed the parts are the saving grace of x1 and X2 Magneto by Ian perfect Xavier played by Patrick was perfect and while Hugh nailed the part he was not perfect because they just made him to damn tall and they could have easily made him appear shorter the same way they did for the hobbits in LOTR.
The rest were so far from there comic book counterparts it was as if they were just using the names and made up the charcters themselves.

So again how is it fair to blame Ratner???? if anyone is to blame it would be the heads of FOX whom made many decisons about the Xmen movies or Singer for getting them wrong in the first place.

Good directors can do action movies with drama/charcter develoment, Singer can do drama but his action lacks greatly, Ratner can do action but his drama lacks....and both had to answer to Tom Rothman at FOX....

Singer would have had more influence than Ratner because Singer had proven his worth with two successful movies. Also, Singer would not have made the movie if Fox started bossing him around, he would stand up for himself instead of being a studio lackey.

Ratner doesnt take all of the blame for X3 but he is partly responsible for it. And how can you say Cyclops and Mystique werent like their comic book counter parts.

And both Rogue and Cyclops were both being built up for big roles in X3 at the end of X2. Rogue was becoming more confident, hence her stopping Pyro's rampage at the Drake house and trying to fly the jet to save the X-Men at the end of X2. She was growing as a character. And Cyclops and Jeans love for each other was clearly evident at the end of X2. Jean CLEARLY chose Scott as the man she loved and wanted to spend the rest of her life with. And the writers of X2 have already explained how they would have ended their version of the 3rd movie, and believe me, IT involves Cyclops and Jean ONLY.

Also Superman Returns was 10 times better than X3, i couldnt give a **** how much they earned.
 

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