Singer nay or yah

[X-Maniac]

Well, I should hope so considering Superman Returns doesn't even look to be available for sale, let alone pre-order.

SR is available for pre-order at www.hmv.co.uk. Single disc at a ridiculously low £9.99, double disc for £13.99. X3 is £14.99, the box set is £29.99. All prices include shipping. A very obvious attempt to attract sales for the SR single-disc set.

 

[chaseter]

Agreed! That there's part of the key: repeat viewings. It's why movies like LOTR were in the movie theatre for such a long time. THe hype and media frenzy was there to get as many people to see it once, because they knew it wouldn't have much repeat business. That in itself worked. It was a good investment from a financial point of view, yes. On that level it was successful. But Citizen Kane or Star Wars or even X2 it is not.

You also have to take into account that LOTR hasn't been a cultural phoenomenon until the movies came out. No one saw Frodo action figures or trading cards or bed spreads 5 years before it came out. X3 and other comic movies have been around for years and have been in the culture for generations. Yea LOTR has been around for a while...but it hadn't been highly thought of prior to the movies. LOTR has developed a new fanbase which increased with each movie. Same goes for Chronicles and Harry Potter...their movies will rack in more and more money with each movie as their fanbase grows. The X-Men has developed a fanbase with each generation...the comics, the cartoon, and now the movies. X2 was pretty highly hyped as well. Sure not as much as X3...but the more sequels you have...there tends to be more advertising to go along with it...SM3's hype and advertising has already surpassed that of SM1 or SM2. Star Wars 5 had more hype than 4 and 6 had more than 5.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

X2 was pretty highly hyped as well. Sure not as much as X3...but the more sequels you have...there tends to be more advertising to go along with it...SM3's hype and advertising has already surpassed that of SM1 or SM2. Star Wars 5 had more hype than 4 and 6 had more than 5.

Hence the reason for the high initial success of the film. Because of the movies that came before.

I trust that if a 4th X-Men film came out, it wouldn't be nearly as anticipated as X2 was.

Want a good indicator of quality?

In X2, and many other movies I've seen, people cheered at the midnight showings. In X-Men: The Last Stand, I don't recall hearing a single cheer.

 

[ntcrawler]

\
In X2, and many other movies I've seen, people cheered at the midnight showings. In X-Men: The Last Stand, I don't recall hearing a single cheer.

Show that Cyclops is alive. They'll cheer.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Well first off X3 made a huge amount and broke the previous memorial day holiday record. Can Garfield or Step Up say that? Secondly nearly all hugely hyped blockbusters have a considerable drop the second week in. Why? Because most everyone who was passionate about it went to see it during its opening. X3's second week in was just under SR's opening week by about 10 million. Sure Gigli almost matched its opening weekend but when you open with such a low number...big drops the second week in are only in the thousands...not the millions. My biggest pet peeve on here is to hear the constant, repetitive complaints that have been going on for the last 4 months...so I am here to be one of the few people on here trying to defend the movie...or at least stand up to those people.

If box office numbers or dvd sales like I mentioned aren't a good indicator of quality, which I completely explained, then what is? No one is going to go out and do an accurate poll with random sampling to determine the quality of a movie. Internet polls and critic reviews are about the only thing people go by on here. Internet polls are highly biased and extremely limited to those people that only visit that certain site. For example the polls on here. Critic reviews were mixed but certainly do not represent the majority of the people.



I agree and have said it before that I just thought X3 was ok...it lacked a lot and could have been pheonomenal. But Fox didn't allow that. There is more to box office totals...people on here just aren't looking at them correctly. For instance the 'legs' theory going around on here. As mentioned, most blockbusters have a considerable drop their second week in and on. So they all technically don't have good 'legs'. Even SR was showing drops over 50%...those aren't 'legs' to me.



Secondly, film awards such as Oscars, etc...are perfect indicators for quality. We don't yet have those so I am simply going off of what unbiased information we have...not personal experiences or a friend's review. Ray won a lot of Oscars and other awards and V won some. V was a great movie and one of the best of the year so far. It sadly fell victim to poor hype and low advertising as well as its terrorist theme...which America...or Bush...is currently combating...but it did win some awards. It still did pretty good at the box office though.





X3 isn't available for sale and was just recently available for pre-order.




I stick by my dvd predicitons and still think dvd sales and rentals are an even better indicator of quality and likeability. For people to shell out over 20 bucks for a dvd and near 1/4 of that for a rental is a good sign that people: a) haven't seen it and want to, b)people who did see it want to see it again. For a movie to make a lot of money on those sales and top the dvd charts for a while is a good indicator that the movie obviously was good.

I'm sorry but, putting all opinions of the movie aside, box office and DVD sales are NOT and never will be an indicator of quality. That would mean X3 is one of the best CB movies ever, and it is clearly not thought of in that way. Also, X3 would not have had the success it had if it wasnt for the first 2 movies, this you cannot deny.

 

[chaseter]

I'm sorry but, putting all opinions of the movie aside, box office and DVD sales are NOT and never will be an indicator of quality. That would mean X3 is one of the best CB movies ever, and it is clearly not thought of in that way. Also, X3 would not have had the success it had if it wasnt for the first 2 movies, this you cannot deny.

I didn't deny and never once said X3 wasnt effected by X1 and X2...if you had read my post. I said that with each subsequent movie in a series...the hype generally increases and I cited examples. What then is an indicator of quality besides box office numbers, dvd sales, and personal opinions or yourself and friends? X3 is one of the best comic book movies seeing as we don't have a ton out there. I like how you say put all opnions of the movie aside and then you go into saying X3 isn't one of the best comic book movies ever. From my personal opinion...I think X3 is one of the top 10 best comic book movies yet and second in series to Spider-Man.

 

[chaseter]

Hence the reason for the high initial success of the film. Because of the movies that came before.

I trust that if a 4th X-Men film came out, it wouldn't be nearly as anticipated as X2 was.

Want a good indicator of quality?

In X2, and many other movies I've seen, people cheered at the midnight showings. In X-Men: The Last Stand, I don't recall hearing a single cheer.

I don't think X4 would be highly as trumped as the trilogy either. People cheered at both showings I went to...gasped, awed, clapped, etc...so that to me would be a positive indicator for quality then. That is why we can't use that either because of many variants. When one person in a movie gets excited in a packed theatre...it generally affects the other movie goers in the same way. For my experiences...more people cheered at X3 than X2 at my theatre.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I don't think X4 would be highly as trumped as the trilogy either. People cheered at both showings I went to...gasped, awed, clapped, etc...so that to me would be a positive indicator for quality then. That is why we can't use that either because of many variants. When one person in a movie gets excited in a packed theatre...it generally affects the other movie goers in the same way. For my experiences...more people cheered at X3 than X2 at my theatre.

Well, you keep asking what is an indicator of quality then, and really, there isn't much of one.

Surely, box office totals aren't it. Because Brittany Spears has sold tons of records. Doesn't mean she's quality music. Same goes for movies. Just cuz a movie makes tons of money (or lack there of), doesn't mean it's a good movie (or bad).

I seem to have had bad experiences... people I talk to don't seem to have a positive feel towards X-Men: The Last Stand. People you talk to do.

I don't think that the movie is as disliked as some people on here would like you to believe. I don't think that people hated this movie, and thought it was a trainwreck. But overall, I don't think people felt it was the great movie that X-Men and X-Men: United both were. I think overall there's a sense of disappointment regarding this film, though not a sense of hatred.

Hell, I'M disappointed with the film, and if you asked me to give a review right now, I'd probably give it a 4/5 rating and talk about how great it was.

But things were done character-wise that just aren't right. Cyclops was killed off, Xavier was killed off, Rogue was cured (I don't care about Mystique getting cured off, because I personally don't like the character, and hated that she survived the Wolverine stab in X-Men), Angel should have joined the X-Men, there was no Nightcrawler (his story should have been continued on, he shouldn't have been dropped), there was no Gambit (same creative team or not, Gambit has been promised to us from the beginning that he'd be in this movie, that should have been a priority), Wolverine was turned into Cyclops in the absense of Cyclops when Wolverine is really the anti-Cyclops. The attention to detail that was found in X-Men and X-Men: United weren't around in this film. Even though I feel it worked within what was set up by X-Men and X-Men: United, there was no depth or detail put into the explanation of Phoenix. Again, even though I felt it worked, it was a "Here, accept it cuz we said so" explanation.

And I think all of that impacted the general crowd to. Like I said before, the general audience isn't given enough credit. You don't have to be a comic book fan to know the X-Men. They aren't as iconic as Batman or Superman, no... but they are popular, and it'd be hard to find someone who doesn't have some basic knowledge of the X-Men. People realize when dumb **** (like killing Cyclops) happen. Some people may be more willing to accept it, than others, and therefore enjoy the movie more. As much as I hate it, I've come to deal with certain things that happened, and enjoy the movie. But just overall, in general, for the reasons I listed above, I think this movie was a disappointment, even if people still came out liking it. And I think that's the general concencous. Proof? I have none. It's just from my experiences, from people I've talked to, from reading the boards, from reading reviews, there just seems to be an overwhelming sense of disappointment. And I think it's safe to say that carries over into the general audience as well.

 

[X-Maniac]

Well, you keep asking what is an indicator of quality then, and really, there isn't much of one.

Surely, box office totals aren't it. Because Brittany Spears has sold tons of records. Doesn't mean she's quality music. Same goes for movies. Just cuz a movie makes tons of money (or lack there of), doesn't mean it's a good movie (or bad).

I seem to have had bad experiences... people I talk to don't seem to have a positive feel towards X-Men: The Last Stand. People you talk to do.

I don't think that the movie is as disliked as some people on here would like you to believe. I don't think that people hated this movie, and thought it was a trainwreck. But overall, I don't think people felt it was the great movie that X-Men and X-Men: United both were. I think overall there's a sense of disappointment regarding this film, though not a sense of hatred.

Hell, I'M disappointed with the film, and if you asked me to give a review right now, I'd probably give it a 4/5 rating and talk about how great it was.

But things were done character-wise that just aren't right. Cyclops was killed off, Xavier was killed off, Rogue was cured (I don't care about Mystique getting cured off, because I personally don't like the character, and hated that she survived the Wolverine stab in X-Men), Angel should have joined the X-Men, there was no Nightcrawler (his story should have been continued on, he shouldn't have been dropped), there was no Gambit (same creative team or not, Gambit has been promised to us from the beginning that he'd be in this movie, that should have been a priority), Wolverine was turned into Cyclops in the absense of Cyclops when Wolverine is really the anti-Cyclops. The attention to detail that was found in X-Men and X-Men: United weren't around in this film. Even though I feel it worked within what was set up by X-Men and X-Men: United, there was no depth or detail put into the explanation of Phoenix. Again, even though I felt it worked, it was a "Here, accept it cuz we said so" explanation.

And I think all of that impacted the general crowd to. Like I said before, the general audience isn't given enough credit. You don't have to be a comic book fan to know the X-Men. They aren't as iconic as Batman or Superman, no... but they are popular, and it'd be hard to find someone who doesn't have some basic knowledge of the X-Men. People realize when dumb **** (like killing Cyclops) happen. Some people may be more willing to accept it, than others, and therefore enjoy the movie more. As much as I hate it, I've come to deal with certain things that happened, and enjoy the movie. But just overall, in general, for the reasons I listed above, I think this movie was a disappointment, even if people still came out liking it. And I think that's the general concencous. Proof? I have none. It's just from my experiences, from people I've talked to, from reading the boards, from reading reviews, there just seems to be an overwhelming sense of disappointment. And I think it's safe to say that carries over into the general audience as well.

I don't think the public are as knowledgeable about the X-Men as you say, Nell. They either expected the same kind of thing Singer had delivered in X2 (and were disappointed) or they were caught up in the energy and adventure of it all.

Here in the UK, we don't clap and cheer and scream and jump up and down in an auditorium, so the reaction of others is not as easy to gauge as in the US. I heard kids gasping (and i saw more kids than at the previous X-movies), I heard people laughing at the bits that were supposed to be funny.

Off this forum, I haven't heard anyone say they hated the movie. I've heard a few little gripes, that's all. I haven't seen people opening packs of razorblades, sobbing uncontrollably or dousing themselves in petrol - which is what some of the people on here seem on the verge of doing. If i had really loathed this movie with an intense unabating passion, I'd also be taking positive action rather than simply spewing negatively on here four months later. I know exactly what I'd be doing to get my voice heard. Raving on a forum isn't exactly going to change the world.

 

[chaseter]

^HAHA...that is so true. I got all of my gripes on the movie out in about 2 days on here. The constant b****ing on here has got be angry and so I am trying to defend a good movie...not a great movie...but a good movie.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I didn't deny and never once said X3 wasnt effected by X1 and X2...if you had read my post. I said that with each subsequent movie in a series...the hype generally increases and I cited examples. What then is an indicator of quality besides box office numbers, dvd sales, and personal opinions or yourself and friends? X3 is one of the best comic book movies seeing as we don't have a ton out there. I like how you say put all opnions of the movie aside and then you go into saying X3 isn't one of the best comic book movies ever. From my personal opinion...I think X3 is one of the top 10 best comic book movies yet and second in series to Spider-Man.

Well thats were me and a lot of others disagree, go comingsoon.net and the Marvel.com boards and you'll find that the majority of people their didnt think much of the movie either. Not to mention quite a few people on this very board hated it as well.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^HAHA...that is so true. I got all of my gripes on the movie out in about 2 days on here. The constant b****ing on here has got be angry and so I am trying to defend a good movie...not a great movie...but a good movie.

You say its just a good movie, yet put it in the top 10 CB movies of all time, how many CB movies have you watched?

 

[Angamb]

Would be nice if Singer do X4 to see if he is abble to do a great sequel as the first two.

 

[chaseter]

You say its just a good movie, yet put it in the top 10 CB movies of all time, how many CB movies have you watched?

I only like a certain amount of comic book movies and their comic counterparts. I didn't really get into Hulk, DD, Electra, etc...I usually only stick to the mainstream characters and recent movies like the Spider-Man, X-Men, Batman. I can't watch old superhero movies because the graphics and acting detracts a lot for me.

1. SM2
2. X2
3. BB
4. SM1
5. X3
6. SR
7. X1
8. Batman(1)

I can't really think of any more right now...those I know I have on dvd.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I only like a certain amount of comic book movies and their comic counterparts. I didn't really get into Hulk, DD, Electra, etc...I usually only stick to the mainstream characters and recent movies like the Spider-Man, X-Men, Batman. I can't watch old superhero movies because the graphics and acting detracts a lot for me.

1. SM2
2. X2
3. BB
4. SM1
5. X3
6. SR
7. X1
8. Batman(1)

I can't really think of any more right now...those I know I have on dvd.

Just so you know The Hulk is a mainstream character. Everyone knows who the Hulk is.

 

[chaseter]

Just so you know The Hulk is a mainstream character. Everyone knows who the Hulk is.

The Hulk is not as mainstream as the ones I listed. Spider-Man, X-Men, and Batman have all had more exposure via cartoons, more movies, hit console games etc...When I was a kid I wanted to be Batman...not Hulk. I know far more people know who Batman, Spider-Man, and the X-Men are over Hulk. Plus to add to all that the Hulk movie wasn't that good and didn't do that great either.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Lots of people know the Hulk, he had a long running live action T.V series and an Animated series in the 90's. The Hulk may not be as popular as those you mentioned, but he is just as well known.

And the Hulk movie was awesome.

 

[chaseter]

^Oh yea I forgot about V and Hellboy...V was geat. But Hulk was just a horrible movie IMO. I just didn't like Crow, Spawn, Hulk, DD, Electra, etc... What turned me off from Hulk was the giant dogs...especially the poodle.

 

[chaseter]

Lots of people know the Hulk, he had a long running live action T.V series and an Animated series in the 90's. The Hulk may not be as popular as those you mentioned, but he is just as well known.

And the Hulk movie was awesome.

Wonder Woman even had a live action tv show...but she is not as well known as today. Spider-Man, X-Men, Superman, and Batman are about the most well known and loved superhero franchises. More people can name the alter egos of Batman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, and Superman over Hulk. Hulk is more of an anti-hero.

 

[danoyse]

Lots of people know the Hulk, he had a long running live action T.V series and an Animated series in the 90's. The Hulk may not be as popular as those you mentioned, but he is just as well known.

And the Hulk movie was awesome.

Not to mention the awesome Hulk rollercoaster down at Universal in Orlando.

 

[BMM]

Wonder Woman even had a live action tv show...but she is not as well known as today. Spider-Man, X-Men, Superman, and Batman are about the most well known and loved superhero franchises. More people can name the alter egos of Batman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, and Superman over Hulk. Hulk is more of an anti-hero.

I'm willing to bet that just as many people know who the Incredible Hulk is as they know who the X-men are. The X-Men may be a more well-liked current franchise, but the Hulk is incredibly identifiable. There is a difference between interest and recognition.

The X-Men's first recognizable non-comic book medium was a cartoon show televised in the 90s . . . and that's it. It was popular among younger audiences (and perhaps college students). Aside from comic books, where else were people supposed to receive exposure to the X-Men up until then? The "Pryde of the X-Men" pilot wasn't even liked well enough to garner the X-Men their own series. The Hulk, however, has maintained numerous cartoons, television shows, movies, video games, etc. since his inception in the early 60s.

The X-Men have no doubt increased in popularity, but a large part of that is due to them finally having successfully left the comic book medium . . . and that has only been within the last 14 years . . . 1992-2006. Speaking of which, it’s about time they release that cartoon on DVD.

 

[chaseter]

^I never said the Hulk hasn't been around for forever in a lot of mediums...I just said the X-Men and those others I listed are far more popular today and more recognizeable to a lot of people...most teens/young adults today didn't grow up with the Hulk...they grew up on TMNT, Spider-Man, X-Men, Batman, etc...

 

[BMM]

^I never said the Hulk hasn't been around for forever in a lot of mediums...I just said the X-Men and those others I listed are far more popular today and more recognizeable to a lot of people...most teens/young adults today didn't grow up with the Hulk...they grew up on TMNT, Spider-Man, X-Men, Batman, etc...

I don't disagree that X-Men may be more popular . . . but I don't think they are necessarily more recognizeable. There are just as many people that grew up with external sources to the Hulk as there are people that grew up with X-Men.

 

[chaseter]

I don't disagree that X-Men may be more popular . . . but I don't think they are necessarily more recognizeable. There are just as many people that grew up with external sources to the Hulk as there are people that grew up with X-Men.

I just don't think the Hulk has been around that much unlike the X-Men and Spider-Man that are everywhere. I mean no kid I know of wanted to be the Hulk when he was little. I never said "HULK SMASH" I wanted to be the f'ing Batman. I don't think the Hulk is a bad character...I just don't think he is an appealing superhero as Batman, Superman, or Spider-Man.

 

[ntcrawler]

I just don't think the Hulk has been around that much unlike the X-Men and Spider-Man that are everywhere. I mean no kid I know of wanted to be the Hulk when he was little. I never said "HULK SMASH" I wanted to be the f'ing Batman. I don't think the Hulk is a bad character...I just don't think he is an appealing superhero as Batman, Superman, or Spider-Man.

No one wants to be the Hulk. Just like no one wants to be CHewbacca. They're just cool because they both can cause massive destruction, they are fun to watch when angry, and it's really hard to hurt them. And the Hulk was certainly more popular and exposed when I grew up. I never saw much X-men memorabilia or shows, but there was always a hulk show on saturday morning and I had friends who had Hulk sleeping bags, bedsheets, lunch boxes, etc. Unfortunately can't say the same for X-Men.