Sequels Sinister Six in ASM3

[spiderral]

I know Norman is confirmed for TASM2 and Webb's tweet with the picture captioned "The Future" could hint at Green Goblin being in this but are we entirely sure that it's going to be him who kills Gwen in this and not Electro?
I know fans would be outraged if it wasn't GG killing Gwen as it is in the comics but to me, it would make more sense having Electro being the one to do it instead of just rushing GG with two other villians in the film too.
It would kinda be like in SM3 when the main villains were meant to be Sandman and New Goblin and they just kinda had to throw Venom in there towards the end (a film with Venom as the main villain throughout would be great).

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

We aren't entirely sure Gwen is killed in this.

 

[Venom'sDad]

^ Really....because I think it's pretty evident that Gwen not passing in this film.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

^ Really....because I think it's pretty evident that Gwen not passing in this film.

Agreed. What makes it evident to you? I miss some details about film production from time to time.


On another note. What should they do about Kraven/Chameleon with respect to Rhino likely being part of a Russian mob? Is it really gonna fly having several villains that are of Russian descent? What course of action is best?

 

[GuestStar2004]

i think peter will eat a cheese burger this film and thats evidence green goblin will be in the film and gwen willl die at the end

sorry but people are reading gwens death into everything

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

i think peter will eat a cheese burger this film and thats evidence green goblin will be in the film and gwen willl die at the end

sorry but people are reading gwens death into everything

He said it's evident that Gwen is not passing. And I agreed with him. Who are you talking to?

 

[GuestStar2004]

He said it's evident that Gwen is not passing. And I agreed with him. Who are you talking to?

it wasn't aimed at anyone, in most threads you will have someone finding something that hints to gwens death, i was just being silly about it

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

it wasn't aimed at anyone, in most threads you will have someone finding something that hints to gwens death, i was just being silly about it

true that.

 

[DigificWriter]

The biggest 'evidence' that Gwen's death is supposedly happening in this movie is some set photos of her wearing a green jacket - modeled after the one she's wearing in the comics when she dies - and filming on a bridge.

Anyone who has even a rudimentary understanding of story structure should be able to figure out that there just isn't time to set up Gwen's death and have it happen just as it does in the comics in this movie given everything else that's happening in the movie.

If Gwen's death happens in this movie, it won't be a beat-for-beat replication of what happens in the comics and will likely happen at the hands of someone other than Norman, as there just isn't time to set up all of the conditions required for it to happen like it does in the comics if it happens in this movie.

 

[Web face]

i think peter will eat a cheese burger this film and thats evidence green goblin will be in the film and gwen willl die at the end

sorry but people are reading gwens death into everything

Didn't Marc Webb say something about Andrew Garfield eating a cheeseburger in a very spider-man kind of way for an interview before TASM? Lol that came to mind when I read this.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Didn't Marc Webb say something about Andrew Garfield eating a cheeseburger in a very spider-man kind of way for an interview before TASM? Lol that came to mind when I read this.

Well if he eats a cheese burger on the bridge i shall worry greatly for gwens life

 

[Venom'sDad]

Agreed. What makes it evident to you? I miss some details about film production from time to time.

Well, there is a number of items that can be listed; but for one, Webb is not going to kill Gwen at the hand of the Goblin without some interaction between the two(Spidey/GG) in order to setup the climatic moment. Simply, Goblin is not going to just show up at the end and "Kill Gwen", with Spidey left wondering, who's the **** is this guy and what did I or Gwen do to him to deserve this, without giving meaning & consequence to it....otherwise the iconic moment would be rendered senseless. I'm confident Webb is much more mature in story telling, then that.

On another note. What should they do about Kraven/Chameleon with respect to Rhino likely being part of a Russian mob? Is it really gonna fly having several villains that are of Russian descent? What course of action is best?

That's hard to say, because not sure the angle and/or direction Webb is approaching the character in context to the series...yet alone if Chameleon is even part of the current events taking place. I have my suspension the Chameleon is; but, we just don't know....that's the nature of Chameleon character, which would be brilliant if Webb is making use of that fact.

However to answer your question, I certainly got an idea of what I would like to see, given what we know from the first film; and, what we think is going on in this one. Rhino should have ties to the Kravenoff Family, and there should some hint or homage to "The Gang War Story" with Oscorp front and center, for supplying technology & weaponry to the many underworld factions vying for power and control. Unbeknownst to these underworld factions, being used as test subjects by Oscorps to get around Federal & International Regulation dealing unethical use of genectic material, biological, chemical, and conventional weaponry, technologies, and etc. Rhino appearence could be to ensure the Kravenoff role in this "Gang War".

Chameleon should always be an unknown quality to the whole thing...not knowing who he serve or his motivation. His existence should be non-existence, with enough hint to create suspicion that he does exist, before the big reveal. Neitherless, the three should have ties to each other. Oscorps/Norman should suspect a mole within the rank, and is pushing back against the Kravenoff Family, which could be the reason Rhino is there.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Well, there is a number of items that can be listed; but for one, Webb is not going to kill Gwen at the hand of the Goblin without some interaction between the two(Spidey/GG) in order to setup the climatic moment. Simply, Goblin is not going to just show up at the end and "Kill Gwen", with Spidey left wondering, who's the **** is this guy and what did I or Gwen do to him to deserve this, without giving meaning & consequence to it....otherwise the iconic moment would be rendered senseless. I'm confident Webb is much more mature in story telling, then that.


That's hard to say, because not sure the angle and/or direction Webb is approaching the character in context to the series...yet alone if Chameleon is even part of the current events taking place. I have my suspension the Chameleon is; but, we just don't know....that's the nature of Chameleon character, which would be brilliant if Webb is making use of that fact.

However to answer your question, I certainly got an idea of what I would like to see, given what we know from the first film; and, what we think is going on in this one. Rhino should have ties to the Kravenoff Family, and there should some hint or homage to "The Gang War Story" with Oscorp front and center, for supplying technology & weaponry to the many underworld factions vying for power and control. Unbeknownst to these underworld factions, being used as test subjects by Oscorps to get around Federal & International Regulation dealing unethical use of genectic material, biological, chemical, and conventional weaponry, technologies, and etc. Rhino appearence could be to ensure the Kravenoff role in this "Gang War".

Chameleon should always be an unknown quality to the whole thing...not knowing who he serve or his motivation. His existence should be non-existence, with enough hint to create suspicion that he does exist, before the big reveal. Neitherless, the three should have ties to each other. Oscorps/Norman should suspect a mole within the rank, and is pushing back against the Kravenoff Family, which could be the reason Rhino is there.

Well. You've reassured me about the Kravenoff family ordeal. Chameleon could easily be part of the same mob/mafia as Sytsevich. Only to show up in a later film and possibly die. Pissing off his half-brother Sergei into seeking revenge. Yeah... It's no real problem. There's a story there for sure.

 

[Super Jim]

So back to the purpose of this thread.

So IF they decided to go the route of the Sinister Six, whether in TASM3 or a future TASM, who would make your six.

Would it be Green Goblin led, Dock Ock, or someone else?

Would Electro and/or Rhino make it in?

And then, who would round out the six and why?

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

My ideal Sinister Six must have Doc Ock. And could have any 5 of the following (in loose order of preference):

Electro
Kraven
Mysterio
Rhino
Vulture
Sandman
Chameleon
Shocker
Scorpion
...
Jackal (possibly)
Hobgoblin (possibly)
Lizard (possibly)


And MUST NOT include:
Green Goblin
Venom
Carnage

 

[psylockolussus]

Its quite early to do the Sinister Six in ASM3. Maybe in movie #5 or #6 where Peter already fought with at least 6 villains in the past.

 

[Super Jim]

Its quite early to do the Sinister Six in ASM3. Maybe in movie #5 or #6 where Peter already fought with at least 6 villains in the past.

I'm not so sure, though I agree that for it to be TASM3 the leader of the Sinister Six would have to be Green Goblin. Just can't think of a way to make TASM3 bigger and badder. I've mentioned it earlier, but just imagine the poster!

Here is why it wouldn't be as difficult as many think:

GG will have been introduced, to some degree.

The Rhino could make the cut as I expect he'll still be alive at the end of TASM2. He could either escape or be broken out of Ravencroft (along with one or two others).

The Chamelion and Kraven the Hunter could easily be added as they are brothers and could be related in some way to Sergei (Rhino), as many are saying.

Here are my thoughts:

If it's in TASM3:

Green Goblin - leader
Rhino
Chamelion
Kraven the Hunter
Vulture (need some aerial attack)
Scorpion or Shocker (Oscorp equipped)

If it's after TASM3:

Doc Ock - leader
Vulture
Mysterio
Chamelion
Kraven the Hunter
Rhino

All of this goes on the assumption that Electro will not be available after TASM2, or he will be used so much in TASM2 that he won't be worth including. And even though Rhino may be used a lot, really he is just brute muscle, so is more of a support character.

I do agree that Venom and Carnage need their own stories, so shouldn't be included. Really, Sinister Six is the story of the main leader (whether GG or Doc Ock) and the other five are support, some muscle, some tracking, some stealth, some aerial, etc.

To me, Chamelion and Kraven can work in very well to the daddy story, which is likely to "conclude" in TASM3. I could just see the Green Goblin/Osborn hiring Kraven to find and capture Richerd Parker. And I could easily see the Chamelion in disguise as a guard in Ravencroft helping Rhino escape.

 

[DigificWriter]

Super Jim, I keep trying to explain to you that there is absolutely no reason why Sony would or should cram the Sinister Six into a single movie, but you don't seem to want to listen. As I already said once before, Sony is not in the 'Trilogy business'; they're doing a 'slow build' and establishing a universe that, barring any other unforseen chaos, should remain viable, James Bond-style, for years. I'm almost positive that Marc Webb and Co. are going to be given the creative freedom to build this new Spidey universe at a pace that makes sense narratively, which means that villains will only be used if and when it makes narrative sense for them to be used.

You keep looking at this franchise with the idea that each successive movie in it has to 'top' the last; that's not only a blatant fallacy, it's also not in any way a sustainable mindset, and is, ultimately, what led to the behind-the-scenes chaos that spelled the death knell for the Raimi franchise.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

@Super Jim I just want to know why you want Sinister Six in ASM3. As you said, there's nothing bigger or badder than that. So ASM4 is near-impossible.

Do you not like the series/cast/crew? Or are you one of those who just wants the rights to revert to Marvel???

 

[DigificWriter]

^ I get the impression that, as I said above, he has this mindset that each successive movie in a franchise has to 'top' its predecessor.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

I mean, I don't 100% disagree with that. But only when the arc requires it. For instance,

Movie 1: Peter stumbles upon his father's work, learns about Oscorp, meets Gwen, becomes spider-man, feels a duty to stop the cross-species formula he helped create.
Movie 2: Peter hits his stride as Spidey, feels more responsibility, meets Harry/Norman.
Movie 3: Other obvious stuff happens and we see Spidey face his arch-nemesis Green Goblin

But that can conclude the trilogy and movie 4 can go right back to the start.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ This franchise isn't going to be 'reset' unless something causes it to be. It's clear that Sony wants this new universe to remain viable long-term, as is evidenced by the way they approached TASM1 and, based on everything we currently know, are currently approaching TASM2.

Filmmakers only try to 'top' themselves if they're not confident in the story they're telling, and studios only ask filmmakers to 'top' themselves if they're likewise worried about the strength of the story being told.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Oh I was probably unclear. I mean ASM4 would be "reset" in terms of scale. It could be vs. Mysterio or Kraven or Venom rather than Goblin. Since the Oscorp arc will be over.

 

[DigificWriter]

Oh I was probably unclear. I mean ASM4 would be "reset" in terms of scale. It could be vs. Mysterio or Kraven or Venom rather than Goblin. Since the Oscorp arc will be over.

Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. I don't think Oscorp's presence in the franchise will diminish even if Norman himself is dealt with/dispatched in TASM3, but could very easily see the franchise go back into 'world-building mode' with TASM4, building on what they'd already established in the previous movies.

 

[Super Jim]

^ I get the impression that, as I said above, he has this mindset that each successive movie in a franchise has to 'top' its predecessor.

I guess in some ways I do have that mindset. Not because I believe that is what has to happen, but because that is what we are usually shown attempted.

I think a big reason why I keep thinking about this Sinister Six concept is because we now have some members of the Sinister Six in TASM2, which could be a feeder. It's also because I can't help shake this feeling that they are only looking at 3 movies. I know there is no definitive proof that they are only looking at 3, but that seems to be the MO for movies of this nature.

Just look at all of the big ones that have come and gone...

X-men = 3
Spiderman = 3
Ironman = 3

Sure there are other ways that comic book movies have been done, such as the Avengers movie with preceeding individual character movies that included cameos of characters, etc. And for a team movie, that worked.

But these others are more similar to Amazing Spiderman. Maybe not this spiderman, but movies of this nature anyway. So again, I can't get past the idea of them only planning on 3.

So if it was three movies, wouldn't Webb (just like all of the directors who have come before) want to make #3 bigger and badder than the rest? And for a storyline of this nature, that includes the Green Goblin, and has characters like Electro and the Rhino, what would be bigger and badder than Sinister Six?

The next step after that would be to relaunch the cast and move on with the next big story, which would likely include the symbiote suit (done right this time), Venom (done right this time) and then, bigger and badder, finish with Maximum Carnage. That one really would be the ultimate!!!

I mean, if the number of movies wasn't an issue, and Webb & Co. had cart blanch in this process as far as how many, then I would say the trilogy style could still be done, but with each "trilogy" focused on one main villain/group. So it would be like this:

TASM1-3 = Green Goblin
TASM4-6 = Doc Ock and the Sinister Six
TASM7-9 = Venom and Maximum Carnage

To me, this would be ideal. But I'm just not so sure they're thinking this far ahead.

Could Sinister Six be done in TASM3 if GG was introduced and kills Gwen in TASM2? Yes, and overall pretty well.

Would it be bigger and badder than everything that has come before? Yes, more than likely.

But, would it be better to do it in movie 6, using 4 and 5 to set it up. Once again, yes!

Oh, and I really do love most of this cast. I think Peter is perfect. Gwen is adorable and I will hate to see her go. At first I was worried with Uncle Ben and Aunt May, but they worked and I actually like this non-canon style Aunt May (plus they are support characters, really). I was really excited to see Massee as Osborn/Green Goblin, but that's not happening now. I am holding judgement on Cooper for now. MJ, well let's not go there since I get pretty beaten up when I comment over on the Shaelene Woodley is MJ thread. Jamie as Electro, looking forward to it. Paul as Rhino, yup, a little worried, but we'll see. Whenever I think about Giammatti as Rhino I have to stop, put the Liar, Liar character out of my head and think of him saying "Where's Chow!". That makes me feel better...