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Smallville Smallville Underappreciated

I am guessing they came up with that rule when they thought the show would last 4/5 seasons. Once they got to a certain point they should have said screw it in regards to no flying

Maybe they should have, however once they got him into full flight mode they would have had to do it every week and I don't think the budget was there for it. At least they acknowledged it and it was part of what he had to do yo become Superman.
 
They should have ended the show after five seasons, which is needed for Syndication status. The first 3 seasons were well done. (IMO.)

And , No I don't agree that Flash, Gotham and Arrow are of same level and quality as Smallville, they are much better... but then at that time Smallville was also popular.


Edit: I have DVD box sets of first 3 seasons, which I watch occasionally.
 
They should have ended the show after five seasons, which is needed for Syndication status. The first 3 seasons were well done. (IMO.)

And , No I don't agree that Flash, Gotham and Arrow are of same level and quality as Smallville, they are much better... but then at that time Smallville was also popular.


Edit: I have DVD box sets of first 3 seasons, which I watch occasionally.

It's easy to say that but when a shows popular they aren't gonna just pull it when everyone is willing to continue with it.

I never said that at all you should re-read my post. I said that Smallville set a template for those shows it tested the waters and they were able to run further with it.

I have the complete collection only wish that they had released the same one in the UK as they US as the US got a 90 minute retrospective on the entire series.
 
My post was not directed at you. I was replying to the point made by pr0xyt0xin, here's his post -

is this the upcoming sequel to the show?

"Smallville Underappreciated"


Personally I think the show was sub par for modern television. I don't think Arrow/Flash are much better either. They tend to go through the same tropes that have been rehashed on every other CW series since its inception.

I dont think its underappreciated. I think it's aptly appreciated.

And I want to add that I have also heard some people say that Smallville had "bad acting", which is odd as I think Michael Rosenbaum, John Glover were good, while John Schneider, Annette O'Toole, Erica Durance and Tom Welling were OK.
 
You keep saying Smallville set a template but it really didn't. Smallville didn't do anything that hadn't already been accomplished in the late 80s/early 90s DC shows like Lois and Clark, Superboy, The Flash, Swamp Thing, or Human Target. It was just a slower, teen-angsty version that was completely afraid of its comic book roots.

I would argue that shows like The Flash, Arrow, iZombie, and Supergirl owe FAR more to Buffy the Vampire Slayer than any other individual show. The semi-serialized, semi-case of the week format, the extended support network of characters, the pacing of the seasons, the mix of drama, action, and comedy...
 
The problem with Smallville stemmed from the direction given by the showrunners and writing (after season 3).
 
My post was not directed at you. I was replying to the point made by pr0xyt0xin, here's his post -



And I want to add that I have also heard some people say that Smallville had "bad acting", which is odd as I think Michael Rosenbaum, John Glover were good, while John Schneider, Annette O'Toole, Erica Durance and Tom Welling were OK.

Apologies Bruce.

I think some of the actors were really good and others were OK or decent. Of course it had its share of bad acting too but overall for a TV show it was fine.
 
You keep saying Smallville set a template but it really didn't. Smallville didn't do anything that hadn't already been accomplished in the late 80s/early 90s DC shows like Lois and Clark, Superboy, The Flash, Swamp Thing, or Human Target. It was just a slower, teen-angsty version that was completely afraid of its comic book roots.

I would argue that shows like The Flash, Arrow, iZombie, and Supergirl owe FAR more to Buffy the Vampire Slayer than any other individual show. The semi-serialized, semi-case of the week format, the extended support network of characters, the pacing of the seasons, the mix of drama, action, and comedy...

No it set a template for modern shows, after the show itself kept away from its comic book routes it later embraced them and even brought in other DC superheroes which hadn't been done in live action before (bar a failed JL pilot and a bad Superfriends special). It wasn't afraid if its roots, the show was always pitched as a pre superhero show which it later embraced. I really don't think you'd get the JSA, Green Arrow, Aquaman etc on a show that was afraid of its comic book routes. Arrow exists now because of Green Arrow on Smallville. Smallville had a mix of those things too, no Smallville no Arrow and subsequently no Flash. Also embracing its comic book routes was also done in other ways like the friendship between Clark and Lex was done in the early Superboy comics, they also frequently used characters from the comic on the show.
 
Flash and Arrow were reactions to the superhero boom in cinemas. That was brought forth by Sony's Spiderman trilogy, Nolan's TDK trilogy, Singer's X-Men films, and Whedon's MCU. Whether Smallville existed or not, those movies would have been successful and they would have inspired television shows.

The Arrow showrunners went ridiculously far out of their way to make sure their new Green Arrow was not associated with the one from Smallville.

Smallville didn't do anything revolutionary at all. It was just a bad teen soap opera.

Everything Smallville did was already done decades before on other shows. The use of specific comic book characters or plot devices isn't revolutionary. Lois and Clark, Swamp Thing, Superboy, 90s Flash, 50s Superman, 60s Batman, 70s Wonder Woman, Human Target, etc all did those things decades before Smallville was unleashed upon the world.
 
Flash and Arrow were reactions to the superhero boom in cinemas. That was brought forth by Sony's Spiderman trilogy, Nolan's TDK trilogy, Singer's X-Men films, and Whedon's MCU. Whether Smallville existed or not, those movies would have been successful and they would have inspired television shows.

The Arrow showrunners went ridiculously far out of their way to make sure their new Green Arrow was not associated with the one from Smallville.

Smallville didn't do anything revolutionary at all. It was just a bad teen soap opera.

Everything Smallville did was already done decades before on other shows. The use of specific comic book characters or plot devices isn't revolutionary. Lois and Clark, Swamp Thing, Superboy, 90s Flash, 50s Superman, 60s Batman, 70s Wonder Woman, Human Target, etc all did those things decades before Smallville was unleashed upon the world.

Arrow was green out after the run of Smallville ended, the CW had talked about a Green Arrow spinoff for a long time. In the end they rebooted the character but stil made the show. It was definitely a consequence of Smallville.

So because you don't like the show it did nothing? Ok then

Sounds to me like you're just hung up because it wasn't the show you wanted. It did a hell of a lot for Superheroes on TV. So those shows had many occasions of other heroes appearing did they! Erm think you'll find they didn't.
 
The concept of other heroes appearing on a show is not revolutionary. I don't know why you think it is. Hell, we can even go back to Legends of the Super Heroes from the 70s. The reason other comic book characters started appearing is because Smallville went on for longer than the other shows and they ran out of boring love triangles.

The fact of the mater is, conceptually, the only thing different about Smallville than the shows that came before it was its prequel/teen drama setting. And none of the new shows, except arguably Gotham, have adopted that.
 
The concept of other heroes appearing on a show is not revolutionary. I don't know why you think it is. Hell, we can even go back to Legends of the Super Heroes from the 70s. The reason other comic book characters started appearing is because Smallville went on for longer than the other shows and they ran out of boring love triangles.

The fact of the mater is, conceptually, the only thing different about Smallville than the shows that came before it was its prequel/teen drama setting. And none of the new shows, except arguably Gotham, have adopted that.

The Legends of Superhroes wasn't a success or even well known. Smallville brought those heroes on in the modern era. Read what I actually say before posting back. SmallvilleSmallville final seasons play out very much like Arrow and Flash do today.

Completely disagree
 
Being successful doesn't make it innovative or revolutionary. It just means enough 14 year old girls watched it to keep it profitable.

Again, nothing on Smallville sets it apart from the previous DC shows except its teen soap opera tone and its prequel status.
 
Being successful doesn't make it innovative or revolutionary. It just means enough 14 year old girls watched it to keep it profitable.

Again, nothing on Smallville sets it apart from the previous DC shows except its teen soap opera tone and its prequel status.

This has been a pointless conversation because you have done nothing but show your disdain for the show with childish put downs and then say it didn't stand out yet say other than and mention the fact it was a prequel show. Something which they hadn't done in comic book to shows before (Superboy doesn't count because the premise of that show was based off an existing comic book).

Anyway onwards and upwards you believe what you will and I'll believe what I will.
 
You keep saying Smallville set a template but it really didn't. Smallville didn't do anything that hadn't already been accomplished in the late 80s/early 90s DC shows like Lois and Clark, Superboy, The Flash, Swamp Thing, or Human Target. It was just a slower, teen-angsty version that was completely afraid of its comic book roots.

I would argue that shows like The Flash, Arrow, iZombie, and Supergirl owe FAR more to Buffy the Vampire Slayer than any other individual show. The semi-serialized, semi-case of the week format, the extended support network of characters, the pacing of the seasons, the mix of drama, action, and comedy...

The fact that there is an "Arrow" TV show is directly related to Arrow being on Smallville. None of the shows you listed were as successful as Smallville.
 
Let's not forget as well that Arrow was grounded in it's first sesson much like the early Smallville episodes and that Arrow itself was intended as prequel show to the Green Arrow character much like Smallville was a prequel show to Superman. Also DC were also trying to get Amazon off the ground, a show that would have also been a prequel show of Diana before she was Wonder Woman. Only reason it didn't get off the ground was because they pulled the plug due to movie plans.

End of the day no one is saying Smallville was perfect but to say it didn't have a direct influence on shows like Arrow, The Flash, Gotham and now Supergirl is just ridiculous.
 
A little something I wrote debunking the myth that Smallville didn't embrace the comics

Respecting Smallville

Smallville is a television show about Clark Kent in his days before he was Superman. The show lasted ten years and revitalised the superhero genre on TV. Smallville probably is still my favourite television show ever. No it wasn’t perfect (is anything?) but I watched it from day one and went on a journey with this show’s version of a young Clark Kent.

Smallville Embraced its Comic Book Roots

I’ve heard often people say Smallville ran away from its comic book roots, its not even close to true. But I think by that the people who say that mean it didn’t have Clark or other heroes running around in full on costumes (they did in later seasons). There is truth to that although it wasn’t running away so much as trying to remain true to the premise of the show and their golden rule no flights, no tights. A rule I also think we can attribute to Bryan Singer’s X-Men series which took the X-Men out of colourful tights and into leather. Something they probably thought was more approachable for the general audience than ‘yellow spandex’. The show was never meant to be a full on superhero show but it did become that later.

But even with that the show still embraced the comic books in its early seasons. Clark Kent and Lex Luthor were friends, a storyline taken from a Superboy story in which Clark & Lex are friends until an accident cause Lex to lose his hair. Lex losing his hair in that story is Superboy’s ‘fault’, but it’s unintentional as Superboy tries to blow out a fire in Lex’s lab the chemical’s Lex was using end up going onto his head causing him to lose his hair. In Smallville a meteor shower containing debris from the destroyed planet Krypton containing Baby Kal El are what causes a young Lex to lose his hair, again an accident but again something that Lex could have blamed Clark for given he was in the meteor shower. Again its inadvertent but the idea behind the two is similar.

Smallville continually used characters from the comic books even in its early years, right from the get go, Lex Luthor, The Kents, Lana Lang, Pete Ross, Dr Hamilton (that one they did cheat with but still the surname was there), Maggie Sawyer, Perry White, Morgan Edge and Jor El were all either main characters or guest characters in Smallville’s early years which again some have deemed ‘afraid of its comic book roots’ but this and many other things like Metropolis, the island that Oliver Queen was stranded on, mentions of Gotham, Central CIty, Star City, Krypto, etc were all from the comic books.

In Smallville’s later years they turned the show into a fully fledged comic book show, characters like the Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen (later renamed Henry James Olsen), Green Arrow, Impulse, Cyborg, Aquaman, Metallo, Brainiac, the Toyman, Hawkman, Doctor Fate, Ultraman, Maxwell Lord, Booster Gold, Darkseid, Deadshot, Slade Wilson and others were all included many times, that list goes on and on. The show gave us a DC Universe, something which we hadn't had before in live action. Looking at the final seasons introduction of a Lex/Clark hybrid clone named Conner was very faithful to the comic origins of the 90s Superboy character. As was Clark and Lois working together as reporters at the Daily Planet and many other things.

Even these brief examples are more than enough to prove that the complaint that Smallville never embraced its comic book roots is just wrong because it did consistently. Of course it made changes but so have Arrow, the Flash, Supergirl, Gotham etc.

It Embraced Richard Donner’s Superman

It has been said before that the Smallville TV show could not have existed without the Smallville scenes in Richard Donner’s Superman. The creators and writers on the show certainly did not forget that, the Fortress of Solitude and the Jor El AI were both taken from the Donner movie. They even had appearances from Margot Kidder, Marc McClure and the late Christopher Reeve on the show. Terrence Stamp (Superman/Superman II' s General Zod) was the voice of AI Jor El throughout the series. The looks of Krypton we got were very much based on the Donner Superman movies. Season 9’s villain was Major Zod, portrayed by Callum Blue who gave a very Terrence Stamp portryal of Zod. They even played out the shows final moments with John Williams Superman theme and elements of his theme were often used during the series run.

It revolutionised the comic book genre on TV

Smallville was the first live action superhero TV show to embrace the overarching plot/villain template. Sure Superboy and Lois & Clark had Lex Luthor around as a consistent nemesis (the latter only in its first season and in a few later episodes) but they never really went the overarching plot and the mystery of the big bad like Smallville did.

Even something as simple as the love triangle which Smallville did so frequently (ad nauseum I admit) was nothing new in terms of comic books or even TV shows but it was Smallville that really took it and ran with it. Arrow, the Flash, Supergirl and even Gotham (although not quite as much) have taken the love triangle and ran with it.

What Smallville did was discover many ways in which a comic book TV show would work with modern audiences and this enabled shows such as the Flash, Arrow, Supergirl and even Legends of Tomorrow to get their characters into costumes much quicker. Smallville tested the waters and took risks so these shows didn’t have to.

Its success led to more comic book shows

The CW had a built in audience for Smallville and wanted to keep that audience, so they greenlit a new comic book show ‘Arrow’. Originally intended as a prequel show for the Smallville version of Oliver Queen/Green Arrow (but smartly rebooted as a fresh take on the character with a whole new cast). Arrow, much like Smallville, took the concept of a character before he becomes the full fledged hero. Just like those final seasons of Smallville, Arrow was able to take a much more comic book costumed approach to the myths. Let’s not also not forget Arrow's first season was much closer to a grounded concept much like Smallville had been in its early seasons. Arrow did eventually grow into a show much mor comic book styled, with a multiverse of characters introducing the likes or Huntress, Roy Harper, The Black Canary and maybe most importantly Barry Allen. This then led into the Flash, which itself takes many tropes from Smallville, Barry already in two seasons has had his unsure of himself moments and the I must do this alone moments that Clark had many times on Smallville. Of course these are nothing new to comic book fans or comic book stories but it is something that wasn’t really explored in comic book TV shows until Smallville.

Legends of Tomorrow, a spinoff from Arrow and the Flash is on the horizon. This show will feature a team of superheroes much like the Justice League did on Smallville and later the JSA (which seems even more of an influence with the inclusion of Hawkman & Hawkgirl in LOT). Again Smallville was able to test this scenario out, Clark was often teaming up with his Justice League pals in the same way Arrow and Flash do their sidekicks/team mates and the same way the Legends of Tomorrow will.

Just looking at the show Gotham which takes the general idea of a young Bruce Wayne before he is Batman, of course this isn’t a new idea. Smallville was originally pitched as a show about Bruce Wayne but unable to figure it out they eventually landed on a story of a young Clark Kent. Gotham also explores Gotham City and its criminal underworld before the Batman came on the scene, this is something that was also touched upon in Smallville with frequent trips to Metropolis. Even there and in the fictional town of Smallville we got many Superman villains before they were there full comic book versions.

Finally we come to Supergirl, a show about a young Kara aka Supergirl trying to find her way in the world as a rookie superhero is something that was done on Smallville before. We can also not forget that Kara appeared in live action on Smallville (as a recurring character for season seven) for the first time since the 1984 movie. One can argue that Smallville reintroduced the character to modern audiences who may not generally read the comic books. Its also worth noting that much like fans wanting Justin Hartley to reprise his Oliver Queen role in ‘Arrow’ many fans were asking for calling for Laura Vandervoort to play Kara once again.

Respect what came before

I’m not saying these shows are taking Smallville and copying it, far from it. They are taking far more from comic books and a previous TV show (in the case of the Flash) but what they are doing is taking the template left behind from Smallville and expanding upon it.

If you are a fan of any of the shows I’ve mentioned then surely you can see the influence Smallville had on those shows. I am not saying that if you dislike Smallville that you have to like it. But if you are a fan of any of the other shows I have mentioned I am asking you to respect it, because it deserves it.
 
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They should have ended the show after five seasons, which is needed for Syndication status. The first 3 seasons were well done. (IMO.)

And , No I don't agree that Flash, Gotham and Arrow are of same level and quality as Smallville, they are much better... but then at that time Smallville was also popular.


Edit: I have DVD box sets of first 3 seasons, which I watch occasionally.

Eh Gotham is a tire fire. It has no idea what it wants to be, and the characters all seemingly act at random. Gotham will be lucky to see a full third season at thsi rate.

Flash and Arrow SHOULD be better than Smallville since they're it's progeny.

The Arrow showrunners went ridiculously far out of their way to make sure their new Green Arrow was not associated with the one from Smallville.

this was explained at the time as being done for story reasons, and they didnt want to be tied to the Smallville plotlines with him, since Hartley's Arrow was already well established and they were taking the character to a darker place. It was not a reflection on Smallville or Justin Hartley. Guggenheim and Kreisberg spelled that out pretty clearly.(Hell they even talk about him having a cameo at some point)

http://screenrant.com/arrow-tv-show-series-justin-hartley/

You can't however, with a straight face, chalk up to coincidence that Green Arrow makes his first live TV appearance on Smallville, is a popular character who gets a recurring than permanent role, and then when that show ends the very same network gives the same character, albeit a different actor, with some of the very same writers/showrunners his own show. There was no way in hell people were giving the Green Arrow, a B/C level DC hero, his own show on the CW without the characters success on Smallville previous to that.


Smallville didn't do anything revolutionary at all. It was just a bad teen soap opera.

I dont think the claim was ever that the show was revolutionary in any way, just that it helped paved the way for a DC series on a smaller network that required a decent amount of SFX and budget. Dismiss it however you like by calling it a "bad teen soap opera" or whatever, but none of the other shows you listed had a 10 year run like Smallville did and got the CW the ratings they did.

Everything Smallville did was already done decades before on other shows. The use of specific comic book characters or plot devices isn't revolutionary. Lois and Clark, Swamp Thing, Superboy, 90s Flash, 50s Superman, 60s Batman, 70s Wonder Woman, Human Target, etc all did those things decades before Smallville was unleashed upon the world.

Unleashed? LOL You're obviously not here to have any kind of informed discussion, just basically to dump on a show that hasn't been on the air in 4+ years with the same old quips that were tiresome 10 years ago and just as lame. Why waste your time?
 
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Great post TIH

I think what bugs me most about people who don't like it is they say those of us who do think it's perfect. Just for the record we don't, I could list many things on the show that made my head roll. But you know just like a friend or a lover you love them faults and all. All I am saying is that if you're a fan of superhero TV shows give it some credit and show it a little respect, I'm not saying anyone has to like it.
 
What an insightful comment and totally missing the point of this thread
 
A friend suggested Smallville to me and so I just decided to watch a couple of episodes to see what it's like; it's barely been a week since I began and I'm already into Season 3! Pretty engrossing and makes you want to watch episode after episode and not stop :yay: The only point which strikes me almost at the end of every episode is the totally pointless conversation between Lana and the hero - I mean, the seem to like each other a lot, so why don't they just get together for good and be done with it? It's always the 'big eyes stare' from Lana and the 'you won't understand my problems' dialogues from our superhero and then they just leave it at that. Escapes me!
 
You'll have another four seasons to endure with that.
 

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