Sequels So what's next for You-Know-You? (SPOILER THREAD! ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!)

[Captain Marvel]

Exactly. The Emperor was mentioned in the first Star Wars movie but he didn't actually play a direct role until Return of the Jedi. There's no reason that Thanos has to be the main villain in Avengers 2 just because he cameo'd in the first movie. Given that Marvel is planning a Guardians of the Galaxy movie, I half expect for Thanos to appear there before he appears as a villain in Avengers 3.

 

[DrCosmic]

Yeah, and how can Thanos make for a smaller more personal movie? Joss Whedon knew he was teasing Thanos when he said that the second one wasn't going to try and top the first one... I guess he didn't know fans would think every Thanos' only purpose in a franchise is to be a fight scene. He'll be an even more involved manipulator next time, and when Avengers 3 comes out, it'll have even more payoff.

 

[usagicassidy]

I don't have a vast knowledge of the entire Marvel Universe (X-Men is where its at), but I was blindly thinking that was a Skrull, or the Super-Skrull, since we didn't see the whole body, that's all I had to go off of.

Now that I know it's Thanos, I'm a little less excited...

 

[Captain Marvel]

You're a little less excited now that you know it's Thanos and not the Super-Skrull? I don't know the Super-Skrull had such a devoted fan following.

 

[MarvelKnight]

Thanos = Not small.

Why would someone prefer Super Skrull over Thanos? I suppose everyone has their preferences but still, slightly odd.

The comparisons to the Emperor make total sense when you think about it. I think this will definitely be a long-term tease/reference with Thanos

 

[cherokeesam]

Exactly. The Emperor was mentioned in the first Star Wars movie but he didn't actually play a direct role until Return of the Jedi. There's no reason that Thanos has to be the main villain in Avengers 2 just because he cameo'd in the first movie. Given that Marvel is planning a Guardians of the Galaxy movie, I half expect for Thanos to appear there before he appears as a villain in Avengers 3.

The thing about the Emperor in the OT, though, is that viewers "knew" who he was, even if they didn't see him except in holograms until ROTJ. Oh yeah, he's the Emperor, the head guy, the guy who built this whole evil empire that the good guys are fighting, the villain that we know is gonna be the Final Boss in the trilogy.

In the case of Thanos, there's no setup for that at all. Right now, *only* Marvel fans even know who the hell he is. GA don't. They have no idea who he is, or what his purpose is related to the Avengers or any other Marvel movie. So if you don't use him *soon,* the GA aren't going to remember or even give a damn about some unnamed guy who had a blink-and-ya-miss-it wordless cameo at the end of Avengers 1.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I think people are ignoring the blatantly obvious if they think Thanos isn't going to play major role in The Avengers 2, or Thor 2, or both. While it's true that most of the GA who stayed for the post-credits scene was like, "Who the hell was that? What did that mean?" I think it's safe to assume that they wouldn't have shown him at the end there if they didn't plan to use him again, and soon. The GA didn't know what the Tesseract was at the end of Thor. They probably didn't even know what "The Avenger Initiative" meant at the end of Iron Man, or even who Nick Fury was. But as we saw, Marvel moved along with those things quickly.

And Whedon's claim about the next movie not being about topping the first one and making it smaller and more personal is BS, or at the very least, careful manipulation. Seriously, I'm not sure how long the final battle in this movie was, but it felt like it went on forever (and in a good way; not in a Transformers 2 & 3 way). It was carnage on an epic scale. You don't put that kind of scene into a movie and then backtrack in part 2. It just doesn't happen. And that's not a bad thing; we saw in The Dark Knight that going bigger and bolder CAN work, as long as it's done with care. So while the sequel will (and should) include plenty of personal scenes so that the characters keep developing, we can certainly expect some seriously bold action.

Thanos might not be the only bad guy in part 2... indeed, he might not be the central bad guy, if they want to keep him around for part 3. But he will have a presence, and it won't just be off-camera like it was here.

 

[DrCosmic]

So in your opinion, the director is lying? Hmmm... fishy opinion. But I'm glad you understand he won't be the central bad guy. Hopefully you've recognized the building pattern:
1) Tease Something the audience is clueless on
2) Spend a movie building and explaining and expanding on it
3) Actually bring that thing into the plot

Avengers/SHIELD: IM1 -> IM2 (and Thor and Cap) -> Avengers
Tesseract: Thor -> Cap -> Avengers
Thanos: Avengers -> Avengers 2 (And Thor 2 and GotG) -> Avengers 3

The only way they won't build Thanos up long is if they aren't planning to do a 3. There's no play here where Thanos is followed up by someone though. That doesn't even sound right.

And Smaller more personal sequels do happen, especially when the first film goes big like Avengers instead of small like Begins and Fellowship of the Ring. See Empire Strikes Back. And remember the context: How can you top Avengers. I don't have an answer for that, and you don't like Whedon's answers, so what's you're answer? How do you top Avengers' action?

 

[cherokeesam]

So in your opinion, the director is lying? Hmmm... fishy opinion. But I'm glad you understand he won't be the central bad guy. Hopefully you've recognized the building pattern:
1) Tease Something the audience is clueless on
2) Spend a movie building and explaining and expanding on it
3) Actually bring that thing into the plot

Avengers/SHIELD: IM1 -> IM2 (and Thor and Cap) -> Avengers
Tesseract: Thor -> Cap -> Avengers
Thanos: Avengers -> Avengers 2 (And Thor 2 and GotG) -> Avengers 3

The only way they won't build Thanos up long is if they aren't planning to do a 3. There's no play here where Thanos is followed up by someone though. That doesn't even sound right.

Sure, Thanos will be followed up by someone more spectacular. It'll be called MCU Phase III.

Right now, Thanos *is* Phase II. Yeah, he probably won't become the front-and-center foe until Avengers 2, but he'll probably, as you say, be teased and cameoed in the "Phase II" movies leading up to that. In fact, the Infinity Gems being collected for the Gauntlet are the obvious connect-the-dots for the upcoming Phase II movies....a Soul Gem here, a Mind Gem there, and Thanos puts on the big glove for Avengers 2.

There's just no way in hell they're going to keep Thanos waiting in the wings for Avengers 3, which is likely to be almost a decade away.

 

[BigThor]

Sure, Thanos will be followed up by someone more spectacular. It'll be called MCU Phase III.

Right now, Thanos *is* Phase II. Yeah, he probably won't become the front-and-center foe until Avengers 2, but he'll probably, as you say, be teased and cameoed in the "Phase II" movies leading up to that. In fact, the Infinity Gems being collected for the Gauntlet are the obvious connect-the-dots for the upcoming Phase II movies....a Soul Gem here, a Mind Gem there, and Thanos puts on the big glove for Avengers 2.

There's just no way in hell they're going to keep Thanos waiting in the wings for Avengers 3, which is likely to be almost a decade away.

Actually A3 is only 5 years away (2017) and no one is saying that Thanos isn't going to be in Avengers 2 but he is NOT going to be the main villain.

I think people are ignoring the blatantly obvious if they think Thanos isn't going to play major role in The Avengers 2, or Thor 2, or both. While it's true that most of the GA who stayed for the post-credits scene was like, "Who the hell was that? What did that mean?" I think it's safe to assume that they wouldn't have shown him at the end there if they didn't plan to use him again, and soon. The GA didn't know what the Tesseract was at the end of Thor. They probably didn't even know what "The Avenger Initiative" meant at the end of Iron Man, or even who Nick Fury was. But as we saw, Marvel moved along with those things quickly.

And Whedon's claim about the next movie not being about topping the first one and making it smaller and more personal is BS, or at the very least, careful manipulation. Seriously, I'm not sure how long the final battle in this movie was, but it felt like it went on forever (and in a good way; not in a Transformers 2 & 3 way). It was carnage on an epic scale. You don't put that kind of scene into a movie and then backtrack in part 2. It just doesn't happen. And that's not a bad thing; we saw in The Dark Knight that going bigger and bolder CAN work, as long as it's done with care. So while the sequel will (and should) include plenty of personal scenes so that the characters keep developing, we can certainly expect some seriously bold action.

Thanos might not be the only bad guy in part 2... indeed, he might not be the central bad guy, if they want to keep him around for part 3. But he will have a presence, and it won't just be off-camera like it was here.

As I said before, no one is saying that Thanos isn't going to be in Avengers 2, it's just that it would make no sense for himto be the main villain that early.

 

[DrCosmic]

MCU Phase III doesn't sound like a very interesting character.

Not only is Thanos != Phase II, since the Avengers franchise is based on his antagonism, but the infinity gems are NOT the obvious dot connectors, since all Phase II movies would have to be centered around them (cuz they're so powerful), and there'd need to be close to seven of these films, most of them origin films. And they'd have to drop the Cosmic Cube storyline in order to spend more time expositing another super-device to be used by the same person they've explained is after the cube?

How does this make sense? I like the Infinity Gauntlet too, but Marvel's already called their attacks. It sounds like you're waiting for a Kamehameha when a Blazing Sword is coming.

 

[Captain Marvel]

In the case of Thanos, there's no setup for that at all. Right now, *only* Marvel fans even know who the hell he is. GA don't. They have no idea who he is, or what his purpose is related to the Avengers or any other Marvel movie. So if you don't use him *soon,* the GA aren't going to remember or even give a damn about some unnamed guy who had a blink-and-ya-miss-it wordless cameo at the end of Avengers 1.

And you think there's a set up now? He had, what 10 seconds of screen time? That's hardly a set up. That was a tease, nothing more. If you think that set up makes no sense for Avengers 3, then why would you think it makes sense for Avengers 2? It's a meaningless introduction either way.

It's obvious as well that he'll be making further appearances down the road, or will play some role in the movie universe to come. His presence may have a bigger impact in Avengers 2, and they don't need to make him the primary villain for that to happen. And don't forget that we have a Guardians of the Galaxy movie on the way. A movie in which about half the team has some sort of personal connection to Thanos. Do you think he won't have a part in that?

Avengers 2 is supposed to come out in 2015 and Avengers 3 in 2017. There's simply no way that Thanos is going to be introduced as a villain and disposed of by 2015. It's not going to happen. As I said before, he's a villain you build up to. The building process started with the brief tease at the end of Avengers. It'll continue through Avengers 2 and possibly other movies, and it'll end on Avengers 3.

 

[Captain Marvel]

MCU Phase III doesn't sound like a very interesting character.

Not only is Thanos != Phase II, since the Avengers franchise is based on his antagonism, but the infinity gems are NOT the obvious dot connectors, since all Phase II movies would have to be centered around them (cuz they're so powerful), and there'd need to be close to seven of these films, most of them origin films. And they'd have to drop the Cosmic Cube storyline in order to spend more time expositing another super-device to be used by the same person they've explained is after the cube?

How does this make sense? I like the Infinity Gauntlet too, but Marvel's already called their attacks. It sounds like you're waiting for a Kamehameha when a Blazing Sword is coming.

Given that Marvel made an Infinity Gauntlet prop which they displayed alongside the helmets from the Thor movie...

...I'd say seeing the Infinity Gauntlet story playing out is a reasonable expectation. You're right, Marvel has called their moves, and that prop is a pretty big indicator of where they're going.

 

[DrCosmic]

Given that Marvel made an Infinity Gauntlet prop which they displayed alongside the helmets from the Thor movie...

...I'd say seeing the Infinity Gauntlet story playing out is a reasonable expectation. You're right, Marvel has called their moves, and that prop is a pretty big indicator of where they're going.

So... instead of going by the movie storyline where

Spoiler

Thanos is after the Cosmic Cube

, we should go by... a background prop? That wasn't even used? Let me know when that Kamehameha gets here, brotha.

 

[Captain Marvel]

I have no idea what that reference is even supposed to mean.

Point is, they don't spend money on props if there wasn't already a plan to use it at some point. Do you think that Marvel just randomly threw money at a prop making company to make an Infinity Gauntlet prop just for the hell of it? No, they did so because they have a plan to use one. It was supposed to appear in Odin's treasure room in Thor but they took it out as they may've changed their plan, but that doesn't mean that the plan isn't for the Infinity Gauntlet to still make an appearance. Hell, Feige did an interview where some guy walked behind him holding an Infinity Gauntlet prop and he said something to the guy about how people aren't supposed to see that yet.* So yeah, Marvel Studios obviously has the Infinity Gauntlet in mind.

Moreover, Thanos has appeared, and the Infinity Gauntlet is the biggest story he's tied to. Common sense alone dictates that the Infinity Gauntlet will inevitably appear in a movie involving him. Frankly, I'm dumbfounded that anyone could think otherwise.

* I tried linking to the webpage that shows that but for some reason the website name is in the swearchecker.

 

[BigThor]

Whenever Thanos does appear as the main villain, I hope Thor atleast gives him as good of a fight as Cap gave Loki in Germany.

 

[Captain Marvel]

Whenever Thanos does appear as the main villain, I hope Thor atleast gives him as good of a fight as Cap gave Loki in Germany.

Yeah, I'd love to see Thanos go toe-to-toe with both Thor and Hulk the way he did Thor and Thing back in the day.

And you know, it occurs to me... the tesseract opens portals, right? And Thor's taking it back to Asgard so that it can be locked up in Odin's treasure room? What if that was part of Thanos's plan? What if he found a way to activate it remotely and have it open a portal so that he can step through, directly into Odin's treasure room, and thus bypass all of Asgard's defenses? Pop in, grab something, and then pop out before Odin can react?

 

[BigThor]

Yeah, I'd love to see Thanos go toe-to-toe with both Thor and Hulk the way he did Thor and Thing back in the day.

And you know, it occurs to me... the tesseract opens portals, right? And Thor's taking it back to Asgard so that it can be locked up in Odin's treasure room? What if that was part of Thanos's plan? What if he found a way to activate it remotely and have it open a portal so that he can step through, directly into Odin's treasure room, and thus bypass all of Asgard's defenses? Pop in, grab something, and then pop out before Odin can react?

Definately, all I ask is that Thor and Hulk hold their own for awhile and send him flying atleast twice.

Also Thanos popping up in Asgard sounds awesome, it would be even cooler if Odin senses him leading to a SPECTACULAR battle.

 

[cherokeesam]

MCU Phase III doesn't sound like a very interesting character.

Not only is Thanos != Phase II, since the Avengers franchise is based on his antagonism, but the infinity gems are NOT the obvious dot connectors, since all Phase II movies would have to be centered around them (cuz they're so powerful), and there'd need to be close to seven of these films, most of them origin films. And they'd have to drop the Cosmic Cube storyline in order to spend more time expositing another super-device to be used by the same person they've explained is after the cube?

How does this make sense? I like the Infinity Gauntlet too, but Marvel's already called their attacks. It sounds like you're waiting for a Kamehameha when a Blazing Sword is coming.

I wish I knew more about Dragonball Z to actually understand that reference. My 9-year old son loves the show and probably thinks what you said is hilarious.

And you think there's a set up now? He had, what 10 seconds of screen time? That's hardly a set up. That was a tease, nothing more. If you think that set up makes no sense for Avengers 3, then why would you think it makes sense for Avengers 2? It's a meaningless introduction either way.

It's obvious as well that he'll be making further appearances down the road, or will play some role in the movie universe to come. His presence may have a bigger impact in Avengers 2, and they don't need to make him the primary villain for that to happen. And don't forget that we have a Guardians of the Galaxy movie on the way. A movie in which about half the team has some sort of personal connection to Thanos. Do you think he won't have a part in that?

Avengers 2 is supposed to come out in 2015 and Avengers 3 in 2017. There's simply no way that Thanos is going to be introduced as a villain and disposed of by 2015. It's not going to happen. As I said before, he's a villain you build up to. The building process started with the brief tease at the end of Avengers. It'll continue through Avengers 2 and possibly other movies, and it'll end on Avengers 3.

I love Thanos, but some of you are vastly overestimating his power and his ranking among the top villains in the Marvel Universe. He's *one* of the top, but not THE top. He's not someone you "build up to." He's a great uberfoe, but there's plenty more where that came from.

And in the cinematic universe, there's not as much legend and lore behind any of the characters. Hell, FF whipped through frickin' GALACTUS AND NORRIN RADD in, what, an hour and a half? And that's one of the greatest and most storied epic legends in Marvel history. And as far as hiding a villain away or just revealing him in bits and pieces over the course of several movies --- why? Yeah, George Lucas did it, but that doesn't mean Marvel has to. Magneto has been in no less than FOUR X-Men movies, and he remains easily one of the most popular movie villains of all time. And Loki might well get a third visit in Thor 2. With that being said, why couldn't they use Thanos as a recurring villain in *several* movies? Including GOTG, Avengers 2, Avengers 3, maybe more?

 

[Captain Marvel]

I love Thanos, but some of you are vastly overestimating his power and his ranking among the top villains in the Marvel Universe. He's *one* of the top, but not THE top. He's not someone you "build up to." He's a great uberfoe, but there's plenty more where that came from.

So who's a bigger opponent? I'm looking at a list of Avengers villains and I can't see anybody who tops Thanos or represents bigger stakes.

Thanos > AIM
Thanos > Hydra
Thanos > Loki
Thanos > Kang
Thanos > Kree Empire
Thanos > Masters of Evil
Thanos > Molecule Man
Thanos > Serpent Society
Thanos > Skrulls
Thanos > Ultron
Thanos > Wrecking Crew

And so on.

As for overestimating his power, if it's Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet there isn't any opponent more powerful. With the Infinity Gauntlet he was able to snap his fingers and wipe out half of the living beings in the entire universe. When Earth's heroes showed up he purposely depowered himself to only using the Power Gem and still managed to kill or maim almost all of the heroes. A fully powered Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet was able to defeat all of the major cosmic beings in the universe, including Galactus.

And in the cinematic universe, there's not as much legend and lore behind any of the characters. Hell, FF whipped through frickin' GALACTUS AND NORRIN RADD in, what, an hour and a half? And that's one of the greatest and most storied epic legends in Marvel history.

Yeah, and that movie sucked. There's a reason that Fantastic Four movie franchise isn't still going on, and you just put your finger on one of the reasons why.

And as far as hiding a villain away or just revealing him in bits and pieces over the course of several movies --- why? Yeah, George Lucas did it, but that doesn't mean Marvel has to. Magneto has been in no less than FOUR X-Men movies, and he remains easily one of the most popular movie villains of all time. And Loki might well get a third visit in Thor 2. With that being said, why couldn't they use Thanos as a recurring villain in *several* movies? Including GOTG, Avengers 2, Avengers 3, maybe more?

Didn't you just say that Thanos doesn't have to be a villain you build up to? Because having him in all of that sure sounds like a lot of building.

And the reason why the Emperor wasn't a fully fledged villain until ROTJ was because the point of a story, any story, is to build tension until a climax. You don't deflate that tension in midstream. The fact of the matter is that Thanos outstrips every other Avengers villain in terms of the threat he poses, even at his normal power levels, nevermind when he gets his hands on infinite power. Once you have the Avengers confront someone like that there's nowhere you can go but down, and that's not the direction you want to be traveling in when you're going into the third part of a trilogy.

 

[BigThor]

I wish I knew more about Dragonball Z to actually understand that reference. My 9-year old son loves the show and probably thinks what you said is hilarious.

Dragon Ball Z came out almost 30 years ago, it's not exactly a new show for "young whipper snappers" if that's what you were trying to imply.

 

[cherokeesam]

So who's a bigger opponent? I'm looking at a list of Avengers villains and I can't see anybody who tops Thanos or represents bigger stakes.

Thanos > AIM
Thanos > Hydra
Thanos > Loki
Thanos > Kang
Thanos > Kree Empire
Thanos > Masters of Evil
Thanos > Molecule Man
Thanos > Serpent Society
Thanos > Skrulls
Thanos > Ultron
Thanos > Wrecking Crew

And so on.

As for overestimating his power, if it's Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet there isn't any opponent more powerful. With the Infinity Gauntlet he was able to snap his fingers and wipe out half of the living beings in the entire universe. When Earth's heroes showed up he purposely depowered himself to only using the Power Gem and still managed to kill or maim almost all of the heroes. A fully powered Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet was able to defeat all of the major cosmic beings in the universe, including Galactus.



Yeah, and that movie sucked. There's a reason that Fantastic Four movie franchise isn't still going on, and you just put your finger on one of the reasons why.



Didn't you just say that Thanos doesn't have to be a villain you build up to? Because having him in all of that sure sounds like a lot of building.

And the reason why the Emperor wasn't a fully fledged villain until ROTJ was because the point of a story, any story, is to build tension until a climax. You don't deflate that tension in midstream. The fact of the matter is that Thanos outstrips every other Avengers villain in terms of the threat he poses, even at his normal power levels, nevermind when he gets his hands on infinite power. Once you have the Avengers confront someone like that there's nowhere you can go but down, and that's not the direction you want to be traveling in when you're going into the third part of a trilogy.

Who said this was a trilogy....???

That's probably where you're making your mistake....you're *assuming* there won't be an Avengers 4, and therefore you believe this needs a beginning-middle-end trilogy structure. I'm not ready to make that assumption at all.

Dragon Ball Z came out almost 30 years ago, it's not exactly a new show for "young whipper snappers" if that's what you were trying to imply.

It's not a *new* show for young whippersnappers, but it *is* a show for young whippersnappers.

The show has enjoyed a resurgence with younger viewers on CN, including my son and a lot of his school buddies. But it doesn't have a whole lot of meaning or interest to a 45-year old man.

 

[Captain Marvel]

Who said this was a trilogy....???

That's probably where you're making your mistake....you're *assuming* there won't be an Avengers 4, and therefore you believe this needs a beginning-middle-end trilogy structure. I'm not ready to make that assumption at all.

And your assumption is that I'm making a mistake.

Of course it'll be a trilogy. That doesn't mean there won't be an Avengers 4, but it's a safe assumption that Avengers 1-3 will be a self-contained trilogy. RDJ, Evans, Hemsworth, they're all only signed for six movies. That's three movies for each of their individual series' and three Avengers movies. Sure, it's possible that some of them may re-up for more movies, but the likelihood is that at least one, if not all of them, will be gone after Avengers 3, and Marvel knows that.

So yeah, the logical assumption is that the first three Avengers movies will be a trilogy of movies and that Marvel will naturally want the final outing of many of these actors in those roles to be epic in scope, because when Avengers 4 rolls around they'll either be using a bunch of new characters or old characters who've been recast. Avengers 3 is the natural place to close the chapter on this part of the MCU, because that'll likely be the last time that RDJ, who started the ball rolling, will ever be appearing as Iron Man, nevermind Hemsworth and Evans, who may still be appearing afterwards, but only in their own movies and not the Avengers. Meanwhile Avengers 4 will be the start of a new chapter with new Avengers and/or new actors in the role of Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor.

 

[The Morningstar]

I think that Thanos will certainly have a presence in most of the following Marvel movies. As mentioned elsewhere, he'll be the Emperor of this franchise. Pulling strings behind the scenes.

And what Avengers did really well was build him up. Sure the GA doesn't know who he is. But Whedon's script really did well to make him seem ominous and a threat without ever showing him. The "he" who gave Loki the sceptre. The "he" who will seek him out if he fails. Great foreshadowing that wasn't obtrusive to the plot of this film in any way.

 

[cherokeesam]

And your assumption is that I'm making a mistake.

Of course it'll be a trilogy. That doesn't mean there won't be an Avengers 4, but it's a safe assumption that Avengers 1-3 will be a self-contained trilogy. RDJ, Evans, Hemsworth, they're all only signed for six movies. That's three movies for each of their individual series' and three Avengers movies. Sure, it's possible that some of them may re-up for more movies, but the likelihood is that at least one, if not all of them, will be gone after Avengers 3, and Marvel knows that.

So yeah, the logical assumption is that the first three Avengers movies will be a trilogy of movies and that Marvel will naturally want the final outing of many of these actors in those roles to be epic in scope, because when Avengers 4 rolls around they'll either be using a bunch of new characters or old characters who've been recast. Avengers 3 is the natural place to close the chapter on this part of the MCU, because that'll likely be the last time that RDJ, who started the ball rolling, will ever be appearing as Iron Man, nevermind Hemsworth and Evans, who may still be appearing afterwards, but only in their own movies and not the Avengers. Meanwhile Avengers 4 will be the start of a new chapter with new Avengers and/or new actors in the role of Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor.

Again, you're making baseless assumptions.

Roger Moore, in particular, played James Bond over the course of 12 years and 7 films. He was 45 when he debuted, and 57 in his last Bond film. That's *very* close to the same age as RDJ, who was born in '65. If you were to give RDJ 12 years as Tony Stark, his last film would be in 2020, at age 55. You could squeeze IM4 *and* Avengers 4 into that time frame, with RDJ still playing the lead.