So...why the hate for INFINITE CRISIS??

[Judge Holden]

Errr... it didn't tank until AFTER those guys left it.

So DC, in all their wisdom, decided to **** it up even more with...Infinite Crisis! And put the final nail in the coffin. Instead of sticking with it and putting some better material out, they ****ed Wally off and brought Bart in.

 

[BrianWilly]

Let's hear Waid himself tell it.

BM: Is he a character you'd ever want to return to?

MW: "God, no," he said, and 40,000 Flash fans exhaled in relief. No. I got conned into coming back for the 2006 relaunch, and it was a disaster from start to finish. I like the stories we told, but I radically misjudged the pulse of the audience when I decided to do a FLASH book totally unlike my last run, when 20/20 hindsight would reveal that that was exactly what the audience wanted. Plus, I took a chance with incorporating his children by hyperaccelerating their ages (because I gotta tell you, infants are really dull to write), and that backfired. Our artist pulled out well after the last possible second, we scrambled to find a replacement, I loved him, fans were indifferent, and Marvel snagged him after two issues anyway. Oh, and once I committed to the project and we'd solicited the first issue, before even one script was finished every single promise that had been made to me to get me back aboard was reneged upon, so integrity and backbone demanded I quit on principle before the first issue even came out. The only reason I stayed six was because of my loyalty to my editor, who didn't deserve to be screwed.

Oh, and also, I'd run totally out of things to say. Just ask the internet.

 

[Judge Holden]

We went over this already Drz. Mark Waid hardly tried his best. I mean, Vagina Monsters? Seriously? And Johns? Johns didn't do anything. When he came back to Flash it was for Flash Rebirth. The book with Wally west tanked because, like most books post infinite Crisis, it f**king sucked. Bad ideas, bad editorial mandates, and I suspect purposeful mishandling lead to bad sales. Wasn't because Wally was the star. It was because the book sucked.

Same here! I honestly believe that is a possibility. Why? Because Barry is the original! He has decades and decades of history! Geoff Johns and Didio grew up with him! So that means he is better!

No, just... no.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Everything you have just said... is the reason why i do not read DC anymore.

Can't DC have an event without retconning something? Which a few years down the line another writer doesn't like so he then retcons it? Which a few years down the line another writer doesn't like so he then retcons it? Which a few years down the line another writer doesn't like so he then retcons it? Which a few ye...

Yea i think you get the point.

That seems to be the consensus with many long time DC fans that I've talked to. They are dropping the books and trying different things. Meanwhile long time Marvel readers are starting to drop those titles and start picking up DC. It's almost as if there is some kind of odd shift.

 

[Judge Holden]

Strange days are ahead!!!

But in the past i've never really had a bias. I'd read whatever takes my fancy. DC or Marvel or one of the Indies.

Lately though i'm just sick of DC basically pushing the restart button everytime a writer doesn't like something or doesn't have the ability to write around it or with it.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Yeah, I'm definitely the same way. I just read what I am liking and if I don't like it I drop it. Most comics the price has gone up so if something is not really tickling my fancy I just drop it.

DC's books have really been enticing me and the Marvel books have been pushing me away. Such titles as Captain America and Daredevil. They had such great runs going but as time has gone on they have lost their awesomeness and I had to get rid of them.

Also I've been reading a lot more Indie titles and a lot of DC's Vertigo. Sweeth Tooth has been really awesome. So has Joe the Barbarian. That Sean Murphy artwork is breathtaking.

 

[fifthfiend]

Once again people ignore Wally's title tanking and how writers such as Geoff Johns and Mark Waid tried their best

This is remarkably obvious trolling.

 

[Judge Holden]

Hopefully it is. Or that mans sanity will have to be called into question...

 

[Mystirious]

Let's hear Waid himself tell it.

None of this shocks me

 

[The ?ion]

My pull list is pretty small at this point. Batman & Robin, Batgirl, Green Lantern and Brightest Day (formerly Blackest Night). Brightest Day has been absolutely uninteresting at this point. Sinestro Corps War was filled with fierce combat, angst, introspection and hope. Blackest Night, while not the most dynamic plot, was an entertaining read that maintained a brisk pace. Brightest Day has been uneventful and it is already five books in (issue 0 to issue 4).

I am tired of watching Carter and Shiera flying around and investigating the most boring mystery imaginable. Meanwhile the all new living DeadMan is on a quest of ambiguity while Aquaman actually became more awesome by essentially becoming a sea faring necromancer. In fact, the Aquaman portions have been the only interesting part of the story. I almost forget that Hal, Sinestro and Carol are busy trying to lift the White Lantern. It almost seems like a plot element that keeps getting forgotten.

Still, I'd rather tolerate frequent reboots that put things back in order, than to deal with the overly chaotic 616. At least the DCU will give you some good books while they screw over the continuity (e.g. Batgirl and yes, I mean that, or Batman & Robin). Marvel at this point has nothing really going for itself. Secret Invasion is the worst stealth reboot ever. Spider-Man has been screwed over. He went from a productive member of society (high school teacher) with an adult relationships, to being a slacker photo journalist who can barely make ends meet. This is 2010. Did Quesada and crew really think that was a good idea? His powers were stripped down and because they don't pull from his already impressive rogues gallery, they decide to make Norman Osborn the overlord of all-things-evil in the 616, while bringing in yet another freaking Goblin. Oh and they had Carnage job out to a Superman analogue. Did they really have to waste a Carnage appearance in that way? I could go on. Marvel has been pissing me off ever since Sins Past/The Other/Civil War.

As for Infinite Crisis, I liked some parts, but honestly, it was filled with too many stealth reboots (e.g. Power Girl). And Superboy Prime has to be the most terrible plot device ever. And yes, I said plot device, not character. Reality altering punches? Pre-Crisis level Superman powers that seemingly dwarf those of Pre-Crisis Superman? No. Just No.

 

[Judge Holden]

Ermmm i don't think you know what you are talking about.

A new Goblin? What? There is no new New Goblin...

Carnage? What? Carnage is dead... has been for a few years now.

Spider-Man having his powers stripped down? What? His powers were not stripped down...

Secret Invasion a reboot/retcon? What? A reboot/retcon of what exactly?

I think what Marvel has done in the last couple years has been great. The Civil War was a great concept. Some parts were not executed that well, but the status quo after it was unique and interesting. The Super Human Registration Act and it's implications on the heroes and villains was brilliant. It led into Dark Reign, which was another interesting concept. Villains being in power masquerading as heroes whilst the heroes themselves were in dissaray.

Leading into a final climax in Siege, which was awesome and much better than Blackest Night i felt. The way it united the heroes despite their different opinions over the Super Human Registration Act to fight a common cause for the greater good is super hero story telling at it's very best IMO.

Which has lead into the new Heroic Age and the return of the Avengers. After reading one issue of Secret Avengers i can safely say it is shaping up to be better than anything in DC's catalog.

 

[The ?ion]

Wow. Just Wow. Do YOU know what you are talking about?

-Menace a.k.a Gray Goblin (Lily Hollister) = New Goblin. Her powers come from the Goblin serum, she rides a Goblin Glider, she looks like a freaking Goblin. Where have you been?

-Yes, I know Carnage is dead. Hence my saying he jobbed to the Sentry. Perhaps using Wrestling terminology was a mistake on my part. Allow me to rephrase. It really sucks that they had Sentry kill Carnage, in order to put him over with the crowd (again I am using Wrestling terminology when I say, "put him over"). Yes it was years ago, but it was still a craptacular decision in a long line of craptacular decisions from Marvel. Anti-Venom doesn't make up for it either.

-Yes, Spider-Man has had his powers stripped down considerably. Though I was never a fan of his insect oriented telepathy or spider "stingers," I did like organic webbing and the fact that he could lift more than ten tons. He also gained a revamped healing factor. That has since been retconned by BND. He is back to mechanical shooters, he is back to a ten ton limit, no more telepathy, his healing factor is back to normal etc.

-Apparently you did not read Secret Invasion. The bottom line is that any incongruity between characterization and plot, was explained away as the person having been a Skrull for some unknown period of time. For instance, the Jessica Drew that joined the New Avengers, was actually a Skrull. To me, that was a weak reveal and a horrible retcon. Then there was the Elektra Skrull that was leading the hand. It was like some half-hearted attempt at a "Who Done It," except it just pissed all over current events. It is almost as bad as when Marvel tried to say that Ben Reily was the real Peter Parker and that Peter was in fact the clone. Marvel just loves to undermine current events with stupid editorial decisions like that. Secret Invasion not withstanding.

My apologies though, I looked over my last post and realized that I kept using reboot and retcon as interchangeable terms, when in fact they are not. In most cases, I meant stealth retcon. Infinite Crisis is a reboot, but most of what Marvel has done is a retcon. Save for BND, which is entirely a reboot. And not even a stealth one. It is an in your face, "screw you long time fans," reboot.

 

[The ?ion]

E
The Super Human Registration Act and it's implications on the heroes and villains was brilliant. It led into Dark Reign, which was another interesting concept. Villains being in power masquerading as heroes whilst the heroes themselves were in dissaray.

1) The entire Civil War concept was done already in the 1960s with the Justice Society. Congress banned superheroes and the community had to deal with those implications etc etc.

2) Civil War was an ill-timed and liberal agenda filled piece that tried to be a social commentary on the existing state of American politics (the Patriot Act primarily). While I will always admire an American who is civic minded enough to criticize the government for doing wrong, I am not sure I need or want that spoon fed to me in superhero fiction. Mark Millar is not Alan Moore and Civil War is not Watchmen (which similarly, was a political commentary). No political commentary in my escapism please.

3) Civil War was just awful. Spider-Man was out of character. He is one of the few Marvel characters (and if you think about it, he really is) who did not have a public identity. It pretty much boiled down to Matt Murdock and Eddy Brock. Otherwise, his identity was largely a secret. Every time other heroes tried to convince him to share his identity and trust them, he basically said, "no, and screw off." Some how, he abandons that stance because of poor advise from a plot device that was disguised as Aunt May. The exact thing that he feared (his loved ones being in danger) happened, and that led to an even worse reboot for Spider-Man's run that set him back to 1982 era Spidey.

Tony went from an amusing dick to just a dick. And I can't even explain it. Clone Thor; Worst Thing Ever. Oh and in the mean time, already overly sterotypical Luke Cage, got his white girlfriend pregnant out of wedlock. I am not a fan of obsessing about political correctness, but does Marvel know how to write any minority character well, other than Storm? Consequently, pretty much everything that has spun off from Civil War (BND, Dark Reign) has been a steaming pile.

There are some high points though. I do like seeing villains being given the authority to hunt down "illegal" heroes. That is pretty novel. But even that has run its course now. Norman Osborn having villains assume the identity of known heroes...is just lame.

Don't get me wrong, DC does some really uncalled for things. "Killing" Wally West, resurrecting Barry Allen. Having Renee Montoya replace Vic Sage (though Crime Bible was pretty bad ass). The entire debacle that was the death/not death of Stephanie Brown (which itself led to the horrible mis-characterization of Leslie Thompkins). DC pisses me off too. But Marvel has a special knack for doing it in a way that just makes me stop reading their books. At least DC knows when they screwed up and have to fix things. Yes it leads to one too many reboots/retcons, but they make an effort. Mean while, Marvel is content to flip you off and laugh. They don't call 'em Marvel Zombies for nothing...

 

[Judge Holden]

Oh ok... well i don't consider what is going on in the Spidey comics to be a big thing in the Marvel Universe as a whole.

And to be fair Carnage is a crap, one note character anyway. He deserved to die.

Secret Invasion again, was a great concept, but yea it wasn't executed well.

But on the whole, in terms of universe spanning events i think Marvel is clearly better in the last few years. Just the all round quality of story telling has been leaps and bounds above DC i think.

 

[Judge Holden]

1) The entire Civil War concept was done already in the 1960s with the Justice Society. Congress banned superheroes and the community had to deal with those implications etc etc.

2) Civil War was an ill-timed and liberal agenda filled piece that tried to be a social commentary on the existing state of American politics (the Patriot Act primarily). While I will always admire an American who is civic minded enough to criticize the government for doing wrong, I am not sure I need or want that spoon fed to me in superhero fiction. Mark Millar is not Alan Moore and Civil War is not Watchmen (which similarly, was a political commentary). No political commentary in my escapism please.

3) Civil War was just awful. Spider-Man was out of character. He is one of the few Marvel characters (and if you think about it, he really is) who did not have a public identity. It pretty much boiled down to Matt Murdock and Eddy Brock. Otherwise, his identity was largely a secret. Every time other heroes tried to convince him to share his identity and trust them, he basically said, "no, and screw off." Some how, he abandons that stance because of poor advise from a plot device that was disguised as Aunt May. The exact thing that he feared (his loved ones being in danger) happened, and that led to an even worse reboot for Spider-Man's run that set him back to 1982 era Spidey.

Tony went from an amusing dick to just a dick. And I can't even explain it. Clone Thor; Worst Thing Ever. Oh and in the mean time, already overly sterotypical Luke Cage, got his white girlfriend pregnant out of wedlock. I am not a fan of obsessing about political correctness, but does Marvel know how to write any minority character well, other than Storm? Consequently, pretty much everything that has spun off from Civil War (BND, Dark Reign) has been a steaming pile.

There are some high points though. I do like seeing villains being given the authority to hunt down "illegal" heroes. That is pretty novel. But even that has run its course now. Norman Osborn having villains assume the identity of known heroes...is just lame.

Don't get me wrong, DC does some really uncalled for things. "Killing" Wally West, resurrecting Barry Allen. Having Renee Montoya replace Vic Sage (though Crime Bible was pretty bad ass). The entire debacle that was the death/not death of Stephanie Brown (which itself led to the horrible mis-characterization of Leslie Thompkins). DC pisses me off too. But Marvel has a special knack for doing it in a way that just makes me stop reading their books. At least DC knows when they screwed up and have to fix things. Yes it leads to one too many reboots/retcons, but they make an effort. Mean while, Marvel is content to flip you off and laugh. They don't call 'em Marvel Zombies for nothing...

I take it you are mainly a Spider-Man fan...

Yes the treatment of Spidey was poor in Civil War. **** Luke Cage though, never liked him.

Tony Stark? Yes he was a dick, but i guess you didn't read all the tie ins. He did what he was doing because he truly believed in it. And it is pretty easy to see why. The Confession tie in was pretty amazing reading.

As for the political stuff? I didn't mind it. Like i said, i liked the idea of Super Human Registration and how it splits the heroes.

And how was Dark Reign a steaming pile? Because it made one of Spidey's best villains a big threat to the whole MU? You are coming across like a bitter Spider-Man fan, to be honest.

You even said the idea of villains hunting unregistered heroes was interesting. So i think it's pretty obvious you are just bitter about Spidey losing Osborn to the MU you at large, so to speak.

 

[The ?ion]

Tony's heel turn was utterly unconvincing. Here is a man who spent years battling the government and other corporations for control of his armor and identity. Why on EARTH would this same person suddenly do a 180 and agree with everything he had been against for so long? It is non-sensical plot device writing.

The SHRA was also riddled with plot device writing. It would be one thing if it were a natural progression that spun out of years of stories. Instead, they bring back Marvel's failed abortion attempt at the Teen Titans and force them into an absolutely stupid situation that serves as the platform for a series of bad events and anti-super hero legislation. What is even more disapponting is that Marvel has already done stories about power registration. Mutant Registration Act anyone?

Political commentary isn't a bad thing, but it is annoying when a writer tries to beat you over the head with it. While Watchmen did it brilliantly, and X-Men approached it organically, Civil War just forces political commentary on you in a non-artistic fashion. They use plain allegories for the Patriot Act and Guntonimo Bay and do so poorly.

Am I a Spider-Man fan? Yes I am. But my disappointment with Marvel is not limited to Spider-Man.

In all fairness, Spider-Man is a bigger part of the 616 than you would think. At times, Spider-Man was more at the center of Civil War, than Iron Man and Captain America. Brand New Day was only able to be written, because of the consequences of Peter's choices (see: forced editorial BS) during Civil War. And yes Dark Reign is steaming pile because it places Norman Osborn at the forefront of all-things-evil in the 616. It is just poor writing. Are the current Marvel writers so uninspired that they have to blame Norman Osborn for everything? It isn't something new either. Marvel has been doing it for years, ever since he "died" after Gwen Stacy's death. Here is the short list;

Norman was responsible for the creation of Ben Reily. Norman Osborn was responsible for Aunt May's death (until they retconned it to be a surgically altered actress). Norman Osborn caused Mary Jane to have a still-birth.
Norman Osborn had consentual sex with Gwen Stacy and impregnated her, which is why (after yet another retcon) he dropped her from a bridge.
Norman Osborn became a government official in charge of hunting down super heroes. Norman Osborn is now Iron Man.Norman Osborn is the most prominent superhero in the public eye of the 616.

The list goes on and freaking on. Much like his recently resurrected son, this ***hole should have stayed six feet under. Why is it that he must be responsible for all things wrong in Spider-Man's life, and now he is responsible for the woes of all of the heroes of the 616? Norman Osborn isn't that important. It would be like having a series of retcons that make The Joker responsible for Brother Eye, the birth of Damian Wayne and being in charge of hunting down the Justice League.

Lastly, there are other horrific things going on in the 616. But this is a thread about the steaming pile known as Infinite Crisis. I don't want to turn this into an "I hate Marvel thread," not only because I don't hate Marvel, but also because I do not want to be responsible for derailing a thread and going off topic. But, I will leave you with this; Red Hulk.

Jeph Loeb has had a spotty status with comic fans. Some people absolutely hate his writing, but in general, people loved his work with Batman (Hush, Long Halloween, Dark Victory) and some of his work with Superman (For All Seasons). One would think that witch such an impressive legacy, that this man would arrive at Marvel and bring good tithings. Instead, he gives us the worst take on The Incredible Hulk, EVER.

Hulk is arguably one of the most powerful beings in the 616, only to be challenged by cosmic level entities (and even then, some still fall to the Hulk). Red Hulk, who has similar powers, is lacking one crucial power of the original Jade Giant: Red Hulk does not get stronger when he gets angrier. Why then, is he able to defeat the likes of THOR????

As if carrying a gun wasn't disappointing enough, this new version of Hulk can defy all kinds of canon. In fact, that is his chief power. Red Hulk can ignore any canon or legacy in order to fulfill plot device writing. Mjolnir; A magical weapon that is enchanted so that only the WORTHY may lift it. This poses no problem for Red Hulk, who circumvents an ENCHANTMENT, with poorly implemented physics ("me in space, so me can lift anything!"). As if GRAVITY or MASS have anything to do with an ENCHANTMENT about worthiness.

But what about cosmic-level, nigh omnipotent beings like Uatu the Watcher? Surely a being that is extra-dimensional and carries around an entire reality in their pocket, should be able to best this beast? Right? RIGHT?? Oh silly me. Fighting a god-like entity only requires a good left hook. Perhaps he learned that technique from Superboy Prime and the reality altering retcon punch?

I just can't take Marvel seriously right now. As gross as Infinite Crisis was, at least it was one event. For Marvel, it is a weekly occurence across their entire line of books. But, to each his own. I do disagree with you, but I respect your decision to continue enjoying Marvel properties. Everyone likes what they like, and in this case, I simply don't like what Marvel is doing. But if it is working out for you, then more power to you sir (or ma'am).

 

[Anubis]

I'm sorry, but you can't just drop a bomb like that and expect the thread to go back to where it was.

Just like DC has books that you like even though the line as a whole sucks, same could be said about Marvel. I'll give you Spider-Man and Hulk. But f**k Spider-Man and Hulk. Also, most of what Bendis is writing. Other than that you got a mini golden age going on over there. Bru on Cap and Secret Avengers. The Cosmic Line. Nova, Guardians of the Galaxy. Events like Annihilation, conquest, war of kings, and right now, the return of Thanos. That has been awesome throughout the entire time all the crap hit the fan with Hulk and the Civil War. The Incredible Hercules, Fraction on Iron Man. (If you thought IM was just a dick throughout CW, then you obviously weren't reading the Knaufs awesome IM Director of SHIELD run.) Thor! My God, Thor hasn't been this awesome since Simonson. All I'm saying is that, right now? Marvel's got far more quality books than DC does right now. But then again, I'm a late 90's early 2000's DC fan, so maybe if you're one of these johnny come latelys, this new and oh so kewl DC appeals to you, but for me, it's just s**t.

 

[Judge Holden]

^Totally agree Anubis.

**** Spider-Man and **** Hulk. They are not things you should judge the whole MU on. Especially Hulk... who isn't even an actual character... he's a plot device. Unless we are talking Professor or Fixit, but we are not.

Like Anubis says... the cosmic line? Nova, Guardians of the Galaxy? Annihilation? Better than anything DC has done in the last decade... by miles. EASILY.

Then you got Incredible Hercules. Captain Britain and Mi-13. Brubakers Captain America and Secret Avengers. Invincible Iron Man. Thor. Again... those books are better than anything DC has put out in the last few years.

The only DC books that have been worth reading are Green Lantern Corps, Booster Gold and Batman and Robin. The rest suck donkey balls IMO.

And Tony didn't just do a 180 for no reason... you obviously didn't read anything leading up to Civil War or any of the Iron Man tie ins.

Tony hated what he had become... but he honestly believed what he was doing was right. It was nothing to do with him bowing to the government... HE was the one who decided the SHRA should be implemented... because he truly believed in it. He felt that to do the right thing, long term wise, he'd have to make some harsh decisions. And to be honest with you, he was right. The SHRA was a good idea. To register and train superheroes instead of just letting them do what they want. The problem was that they had to reveal their identities. But in the new SHRA, they don't.

And again, i can't really take your hate for Dark Reign seriously because it's apparent you are a Spidey fan butt hurt because Osborn isn't just a Spidey villain any more. I bet you didn't even read much of Dark Reign or what led up to it. Take Warren Ellis' Thunderbolts run for example... probably the best treatment Norman Osborn has had... well, ever.

 

[Drz]

We went over this already Drz. Mark Waid hardly tried his best. I mean, Vagina Monsters? Seriously? And Johns? Johns didn't do anything. When he came back to Flash it was for Flash Rebirth. The book with Wally west tanked because, like most books post infinite Crisis, it f**king sucked. Bad ideas, bad editorial mandates, and I suspect purposeful mishandling lead to bad sales. Wasn't because Wally was the star. It was because the book sucked.

Ah i tend to forget this then. Ah well the thing is, we should hope (okay, maybe optism is not for everyone) that we'll sooner or later get a Wally/another Flash title. Tho so far we've seen DC comics up to September with only Barry-Flash title, so we maybe need to wait and see what happens. If Brightest Day #0 is any of a hint, we wll get more Zooms maybe. >_>

This is remarkably obvious trolling.

Thats only because you hate women and vagina monsters.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm sorry, but you can't just drop a bomb like that and expect the thread to go back to where it was.

Just like DC has books that you like even though the line as a whole sucks, same could be said about Marvel. I'll give you Spider-Man and Hulk. But f**k Spider-Man and Hulk. Also, most of what Bendis is writing. Other than that you got a mini golden age going on over there. Bru on Cap and Secret Avengers. The Cosmic Line. Nova, Guardians of the Galaxy. Events like Annihilation, conquest, war of kings, and right now, the return of Thanos. That has been awesome throughout the entire time all the crap hit the fan with Hulk and the Civil War. The Incredible Hercules, Fraction on Iron Man. (If you thought IM was just a dick throughout CW, then you obviously weren't reading the Knaufs awesome IM Director of SHIELD run.) Thor! My God, Thor hasn't been this awesome since Simonson. All I'm saying is that, right now? Marvel's got far more quality books than DC does right now. But then again, I'm a late 90's early 2000's DC fan, so maybe if you're one of these johnny come latelys, this new and oh so kewl DC appeals to you, but for me, it's just s**t.

Preach it, homesplice (although I personally think some of Jurgens' Thor could easily stand up to Simonson's best, but that's a technicality as Thor is indeed quite good now and, more importantly, appealing to a far larger audience than it has in many, many years).

 

[Spike_x1]

All I'm saying is that, right now? Marvel's got far more quality books than DC does right now. But then again, I'm a late 90's early 2000's DC fan, so maybe if you're one of these johnny come latelys, this new and oh so kewl DC appeals to you, but for me, it's just s**t.

The true Golden Age of DC for me.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Don't let Kurosawa hear you say that.

 

[SpideyInATree]

This new DC Universe is teh oh so kewl!!!

 

[The ?ion]

I have been reading DC comic books off and on since around 1990. I have been reading Marvel comic books since around 1989. Like I said, I have plenty of gripes with DC, some of which I expressed here. I just didn't go into detail. If I went on a rant about how everything in comics was pissing me off,

A)It would turn into a TL;DR post.
B) It would make it seem as if I hate comic books...and I don't.

Here is the deal though....

I stopped reading Marvel comics when Ben Reilly was Spider-Man and teamed up with the New Warriors to fight a nanobot version of Carnage (it was not Cletus Kasady). That was the final straw after a long series of disappointments in Spider-Man. Also, by that point in time, Age of Apocalypse had been over for a while. X-Men just did not seem as entertaining to me after that storyline.

I stopped reading DC comics after Superman became Superman Blue. That was the final straw after a long string of annoying DC events; The Death of Superman, Knightfall, Zero Hour. I kept trying to find a silver lining but watching Superman walk into Toyman's empty prison cell to do a physical investigation (as he no longer had x-ray vision) just seriously irked me in my youth. It was two long years before I picked up a comic book again (Young Justice followed by the introduction of Ezekiel in Amazing Spider-Man).

These days, I am far more forgiving. Probably because comic books are an inexpensive form of entertainment (so long as you read at low volumes). Like I said, I don't hate comic books. And I don't even hate Marvel. In comparison, DC has allowed Felicia D. Henderson to rape Teen Titans with a combination of "who cares" story telling and dialog that seems so campy that even Adam West would have to do a double take. Brightest Day has been the most uneventful "event," I have read in a few years. I believe I already ragged on IC more than enough, so my point is made.

I have plenty of hate for plenty of comic books. Except for Vertigo and the works of Terry Moore (his own work, not his for hire work at Marvel). Y The Last Man and Strangers in Paradise can do no wrong (well okay...maybe just a little wrong). In the least, my sentiments are indicative of the type of comic fan I am. I am an enthusiast and a fan who has literally grown up with these characters. So some things I find to be too "outrageous" and a "disgrace to the legacy." But, that just means I need to get over it.

I can chalk it all up to over zealous fandemonium. At the end of the day, no comic creator sets out to produce kitsch (well okay...maybe Rob Liefeld), or to piss off the fans. But in the midst of good intentions and editorial demands, things get screwed up. That is just the nature of serialized story telling. Eventually, perceived wrongs are righted and I get over it. So don't mind me if I seem a bit bash happy. I tend to get more irritable about things I care about than things I could care less about.

 

[yenaled]

Meh, there hasn't been a point in the many years I've been reading DC comics where I'm less interested in the product, if it wasn't for Morrison, Giffen and Bedard I wouldn't be reading any DC comics.