Some insight into Goyer's script perhaps?

[GreenKToo]

It's not what I would prefer, but I fully expect an origin of some type.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

While I prefer the new Superman movie to have the origin in flashbacks, ala Batman Begins, one thing seems to be constant regardless of what you like. Whether it be Secret Origin, Earth One, or Superman:The Movie, we need Jonathan Kent to give him a reason.

Jonathan Kent is Superman's Uncle Ben. I don't think he needs a dead parent motivation like Batman (though it was played off well in S:TM, and not so much in Earth One, wasn't really necessary), but it is Jonathan and Martha that, without a doubt, that instill him with the values that lead him to become Superman. I feel like that needs to be shown somehow. Some flashes of Krypton would be nice though, but not worth an entire first act like STM

All the old movies, and maybe even more SR, sort of missed the point of the Kents by emphasising the relationship with Jor-el too much. Making it seem like Kal-el was sent to earth by Jor-el to BE Superman, takes any 'choice' out of him becoming the hero. It's one of the things I hate most about previous incarnations, and a lot of Smallville (around season 5).

Yeah, they show JK dying, and how helpless it makes Clark feel, but it's more like JK's death is why he explores his kryptonian heritage, not why he becomes Superman.

We also can't misconstrue the reason for telling the origin: it is not to rehash the old information (Jonathan Kent, Jor-El, Krypton, etc), but it is to provide the motivation for his journey. The origin of Superman can be epic, it can be grand, and I don't think that live-action film has captured the scale of his beginning. If we really look at why he chooses to become Superman, then we provide the film with substance. Personally, yes, I think that the genre is getting tired of the formulaic origin story -- but a non-linear exploration of the Superman origin would bring meaning and depth to the character, which SR completely lacked.

Agreed.

 

[The Batman]

It never ceases to amaze me how many different movie genre's dont need a background on characters to make a story people care about, yet when it comes to superheroes, suddenly fans think its needed or else no one will connect to the characters. lol

 

[JAK®]

It never ceases to amaze me how many different movie genre's dont need a background on characters to make a story people care about, yet when it comes to superheroes, suddenly fans think its needed or else no one will connect to the characters. lol

Well in the case of superheroes they have unique powers within their own world, so certain things have to be explained. I do agree that it doesn't always have to be an exhaustive origin story structure though.

 

[KyleDW2]

It never ceases to amaze me how many different movie genre's dont need a background on characters to make a story people care about, yet when it comes to superheroes, suddenly fans think its needed or else no one will connect to the characters. lol

You mean like Ghostbusters, which showed the story of the origin of Ghostbusters? Or Back to the Future, which showed Doc creating the time machine? Or Jurassic Park which showed the origin of two dinosaur filled islands? How about Terminator which had the very first attempt on John Connor's life as well as a big ol' explanation about what this entire thing is all about? Don't like that example? Let's take Harry Potter. Does that series start in his fifth year? No, it does his first at that stupid school.

So its not just comic book movies that use origins. In most forms of storytelling, people tend to like getting some grounding in the universe they're about to be put in. Who are these people, what is going on, all that. They also like seeing the start of the story.

 

[Octoberist]

I think Ghostbusters is a bad example because we do see how they formed the business.

 

[BestGirl]

I think Ghostbusters is a bad example because we do see how they formed the business.

He was being sarcastic. All of his examples could be seen as origin films.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

I'd be down for an origin, as long as it was under 30 minutes of the film. I remember as a kid, watching the 1st Superman and goddamn Marlon Brando took up the 1st hour of the damn movie.

 

[GreenKToo]

WB knows that the fans and public are craving action after SR, so I doubt we see a 45 min long origin again.
I expect an origin, but imo it will prolly only take up 30 mins or so, and even if it is longer than that, if they fill it full of action time will fly.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

I would like to see a revised origin. No ice planet. No condemning Kryptonian criminals and for god sakes when the rocket reaches Smallville, give him about 5 minutes before he reaches Metropolis. THE ORIGIN has been done a godless amount of times. If they do one, make it different.

Anything similar will be just another nod to the DONNER films

 

[SuperDaniel]

Did people discuss the story tidbits from the shooting schedule such as the graduation, learning about the future, ship discovery, funeral bits for the Smallville scenes, Chicago serving as Metropolis, etc?

 

[GreenKToo]

yes, somewhat.

 

[Dark Knight]

Did people discuss the story tidbits from the shooting schedule such as the graduation, learning about the future, ship discovery, funeral bits for the Smallville scenes, Chicago serving as Metropolis, etc?

I expect those possible scenes, graduation, ship discovery, funeral would be done in flashbacks?

 

[The Batman]

You mean like Ghostbusters, which showed the story of the origin of Ghostbusters?

Yup.

 

[KrypJonian]

What's ironic is that Superman: The Man of Steel in the 80's actually turned the revelation into an awesome scene, regardless of the fact that at that point, Clark had no idea why he was so awesome... No pre-crisis Superboy awareness...

But for Pa Kent to take him aside at a huge point of personal triumph and show him why he could do those things was HUGE...

Clark all of a sudden learns that he isn't human, every little thing he has done (cause his powers hadn't fully manifested) is in question...

I wouldn't necessarily mind that being the vehicle for the new movie. It could make most of the previously discussed concerns get themselves addressed, and you could still kill Pa if that is what you want...

 

[Nave 'Torment']

All the old movies, and maybe even more SR, sort of missed the point of the Kents by emphasising the relationship with Jor-el too much. Making it seem like Kal-el was sent to earth by Jor-el to BE Superman, takes any 'choice' out of him becoming the hero. It's one of the things I hate most about previous incarnations, and a lot of Smallville (around season 5).

I know what you mean. This focus on his 'destiny', while it makes for a good story, is not a definitive Superman story. I think the new film will at least focus on Clark inventing his own destiny a lot more than from what we've seen in the film franchise and in Smallville. Though, I disagree with you about the latter - Jonathan and Martha Kent were beautifully written on the show, and their influence in making Clark become who he is was more instrumental than Jor-El's. The way I saw it, even after S5, it was Jonathan's death that drove Clark deeper into his actions, made him drop out of college, spend more time in Metropolis etc. Yes, its a radically different origin story but it kept the themes intact. Jor-El's prophecy is still there and does become an important plot point too, but its no longer the only reason why Clark becomes Superman. Also, I think the point of the original CR film was that Superman is who he is, and Kent's the fabrication. Since Goyer, the man who wrote Batman Begins, is involved, I think we might see that highlighted once more. But this is just a guess. So far Goyer spoke a lot about MoS and wanting to make it 'modern, action-packed, and fun'. So for all we know, it might be something else entirely.

Anything similar will be just another nod to the DONNER films

Since this will be a reboot, they are probably going to go against that. Even Smallville had a lot of elements from the Donner movie (not to mention casts!) They will probably try and create a new mythology. And yes, one with a different and maybe even detailed Krypton.

What's ironic is that Superman: The Man of Steel in the 80's actually turned the revelation into an awesome scene, regardless of the fact that at that point, Clark had no idea why he was so awesome... No pre-crisis Superboy awareness...

But for Pa Kent to take him aside at a huge point of personal triumph and show him why he could do those things was HUGE...

Clark all of a sudden learns that he isn't human, every little thing he has done (cause his powers hadn't fully manifested) is in question...

I wouldn't necessarily mind that being the vehicle for the new movie. It could make most of the previously discussed concerns get themselves addressed, and you could still kill Pa if that is what you want...

I know, that was really great. The only problem I had with MoS was the fact that Superman knew he was from Krypton after 7 or so years being active in Metropolis. That felt a bit off. But other than that, it's still my favorite Superman origin story, and from what we heard, maybe it will be a reference point for Goyer.

 

[KalMart]

Personally I don't consider Smallville a Superman origin story. To me, it's an AU. Yes the general public may think it's a Superman origin story, but that's even more reason to spend 10 minutes definining their own 'why he became the man of steel' stuff.



As I said, I want what you want, with about 10 minutes of 'the day before' added on.

BTW, would you prefer the movie to start with Superman or Clark?

Opening sequence with Superman, but not showing him completely (as a teaser/flash-forward)...then start with Clark as the new reporter at the DP a few days earlier, then we go back to the opening sequence in full as Superman's official first appearance.

As for the 'why/how he became' stuff....leave it mostly a mystery in the first film, like it would be to the people in that world, as they somehow come to grips with this otherworldy and fantastic new phenomenon.

 

[El Payaso]

It never ceases to amaze me how many different movie genre's dont need a background on characters to make a story people care about, yet when it comes to superheroes, suddenly fans think its needed or else no one will connect to the characters. lol

I can't see anything more natural than that.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

It never ceases to amaze me how many different movie genre's dont need a background on characters to make a story people care about, yet when it comes to superheroes, suddenly fans think its needed or else no one will connect to the characters. lol

It is needed to some degree, as the general public doesn't connect to superheroes like we fans do. There is a reason why movies that get labeled "comic book movies." For some reason Hollywood doesn't seem to want to take these movies seriously, most of the time. Half the time, we have mothers who think its okay to take their children to see films like Watchmen, as it is viewed as a movie about characters from the funnybooks

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Opening sequence with Superman, but not showing him completely (as a teaser/flash-forward)...then start with Clark as the new reporter at the DP a few days earlier, then we go back to the opening sequence in full as Superman's official first appearance.

As for the 'why/how he became' stuff....leave it mostly a mystery in the first film, like it would be to the people in that world, as they somehow come to grips with this otherworldy and fantastic new phenomenon.

I agree with this very much! Action Comics #1 only gave us a taste, the essence, of a superhero. That's what this should capture. Flash back to the death of Krypton, life on Smallville, etc. I always said that if structurally BATMAN BEGINS was inspired by SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE, then THE MAN OF STEEL could be inspired by the structure of BATMAN (1989).

 

[Nave 'Torment']

It is needed to some degree, as the general public doesn't connect to superheroes like we fans do. There is a reason why movies that get labeled "comic book movies." For some reason Hollywood doesn't seem to want to take these movies seriously, most of the time. Half the time, we have mothers who think its okay to take their children to see films like Watchmen, as it is viewed as a movie about characters from the funnybooks

Sad but true, despite the all-encompassing 'R' rating screaming at them. Though on the positive side, things are changing nowadays, the last decade is filled with instances of what works and what doesn't for the genre, and some of the good 'super hero' movies were in fact great works of film. If filmmakers continue to treat comicbook adaptations as potential film franchises, it could one day flourish as a genre, be a staple of it. Like Alien was to sci-fi. It's good that Superman always existed in every era. Really sets aside the prejudice that it's a tired old story of a demigod who is infallible and thus predictable. It isn't. Superman Returns was proof. I'm looking forward to this new movie as a Superman for the next generation, not the old one.

That's right. Make GREEN LANTERN and THE AVENGERS look dated!

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I know what you mean. This focus on his 'destiny', while it makes for a good story, is not a definitive Superman story. I think the new film will at least focus on Clark inventing his own destiny a lot more than from what we've seen in the film franchise and in Smallville.

I really hope so. I think it makes him a lot more likeable when he's choosing to do something good with his powers.

Whenever you have the 'it's his destiny' plot, this kind of self pity comes with it. Like what Buffy used to get like sometimes - why me, why do i have to give up my life to save the world, and never reap the benefits of being the hero.

But when this is something he has chosen to do, there is no question. He couldn't possibly not help people, he is happy to use his abilities in the best way he knows how.

Though, I disagree with you about the latter - Jonathan and Martha Kent were beautifully written on the show, and their influence in making Clark become who he is was more instrumental than Jor-El's. The way I saw it, even after S5, it was Jonathan's death that drove Clark deeper into his actions, made him drop out of college, spend more time in Metropolis etc. Yes, its a radically different origin story but it kept the themes intact. Jor-El's prophecy is still there and does become an important plot point too, but its no longer the only reason why Clark becomes Superman. .

I think the Kents on Smallville were incredible, don't get me wrong. Such strong characters, and you could really understand how much of an influence they are on Clark because their personalities were so powerful.

But as I said above, it's the 'why me, i just wanna be normal, i feel pressured to live up to people's expectations of me' stuff that Smallville was occasionally full of, and that I hated. It's also that stuff that ruins characters like Chloe. She became the voice of 'it's your destiny', and started to become quite annoying.

Also, I think the point of the original CR film was that Superman is who he is, and Kent's the fabrication. Since Goyer, the man who wrote Batman Begins, is involved, I think we might see that highlighted once more. But this is just a guess. So far Goyer spoke a lot about MoS and wanting to make it 'modern, action-packed, and fun'. So for all we know, it might be something else entirely.
.

Any suggestion in the flim, that Clark Kent is a fabrication, will severely annoy me. IMO Neither PERSONA is a disguise... just aspects of Clark's personality played up or down. The disguise is the glasses and the posture when he's Clark, and the flashy coloured suit and confident stance when he's supes.

Opening sequence with Superman, but not showing him completely (as a teaser/flash-forward)...then start with Clark as the new reporter at the DP a few days earlier, then we go back to the opening sequence in full as Superman's official first appearance.

As for the 'why/how he became' stuff....leave it mostly a mystery in the first film, like it would be to the people in that world, as they somehow come to grips with this otherworldy and fantastic new phenomenon.

I do like the idea of getting a feel for how the people of that world percieve him. But I want the story to be predominantely told from his perspective. I want to see what it's like to BE Clark Kent, as well as what it's like to live in a world with Superman as your hero.

I think the why/how stuff is important in understanding his perspective, and his feelings about being Superman. In fact, I think it's essential. It doesn't need to take over the whole movie, but I think in needs to be there. That's all I mean by an origin.

 

[shieldshero]

I personally think that what 'Returns' proved is that with a completely new cast then yes you do need to re-establish those characters again,
be it with a full origin or just setting the story at the right point in the character's timeline, i.e starting with Clark pre-Daily Planet or whatever.

This doesn't mean they have to dwell on a long drawn out origin. whatever it takes to make this version stand on it's own 2 feet i guess. . .

 

[Frodo]

If I had my drothers they'd begin with Clark travelling Africa , ala birthright , get the offer from the Daily Planet, then land in Metropolis. Imo the story really starts once he arrives in Metropolis, meets Lois, becomes Supes, etc. I think all the krypton and Smallville stuff can be done in flashbacks ala Lost and should only focus on the aspects which are important to the main narrative . I'm not for an undated version of the Donner film. I would however go the Star Trek i.e hitting the ground running at the very beginning .

 

[Zachhelms]

Personally, I'd enjoy a long origin. I feel, to make a movie about such a huge character, that you need to show how he got there.

I'd like to see a different style Krypton but just show it briefly unlike the original Superman. Also like to see his relations with Martha and Johnathan. We need to obviously see him develop his powers and it'd be cool to see him do something heroic in Smallville. Also cameos from Pete Ross and Lana Land would be cool. As long as they have more then 2 lines.

Superman's pre-Metropolis days are important and we couldn't fully appreciate it from flash back's or a hurried intro.