Homecoming Spider-Man Homecoming (2017) General Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 95

Status
Not open for further replies.
Looking forward to reading that prelude comic.

EDIT: for the new thread:

You adored his introduction in Marvel's Captain America: Civil War, you can't wait for his Hollywood Homecoming - now really get to know the Spider-Man of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in this prelude to his big-screen solo adventure! By day, young Peter Parker attends high school and lives with his Aunt May. By night, he fights crime with wall-crawling powers and web-swinging tech - and he's destined to one day have an amazing, spectacular, sensational reputation as his neighborhood's friendly hero! Join Marvel's Spider-Man as he makes his first tentative web-swings towards a blockbuster future!
Click to expand...
Amazon
 
BatsDC said:
Looking forward to reading that prelude comic.

EDIT: for the new thread:

Amazon
Click to expand...

It'll be interesting to see if they use any villains in it. One would think that because they skipped Chameleon for Vulture in Homecoming, they could use him in this book.
 
Last edited:
I half expect/ fully hope for Chameleon to be in the/a movie unannounced. Use him to throw everybody off.
 
Okay, I'm tired. Had eight classes today. But looking back on the previous page, seriously, guys? Everything I'm saying is 100% true. What can you count as a quip in Civil War? "Hey buddy I think you lost this!!" Uhh.. I guess? "You have the right to remain silent" You can count that too, but Falcon wasn't even talking so what the heck was Spidey talking about? Okay, he made two quips but what did 95% of his dialogue consist of? fanboying over everybody he fought or talking about Stark. He reminded of USM cartoon: a mindless fanboy in a Spider-Man costume not the wise-cracking hero Feige promised in earlier interviews. He came off as so irresponsible and immature which is the antithesis of the core of the character. Also, thanks for the endorsement Oscorp and Eggyman. :whatever:

Also, why do people keep bringing up my old post? Like I said, It was my first viewing, I was flabbergasted to see Tom on the big screen as Spidey as well seeing him in the MCU (which was always a dream come true for me). It was months of buildup and excitement focused into one post. Everybody on here knows how much of a cheerleader for Tom and Feige's vision. So yeah, I saw it again and I started noticing things that really bugged me as pointed by somebody. Opinions change, people.
 
Last edited:
I feel that when in these discussions about spider-man's quips, there's people with clearly different sense of humours and dare I say desires for how they want their spider-man to be.

But I come back to the fact that we all seem to agree that TSSM spidey is a great take, and he quipped regularly in that show.

Let's look at the qualities of spidey's quips in TSSM cartoon:

- Contextual: What he says fits the situation he is in much more often than not. You could not take a lot of what spider-man says when he is quipping and put it in another scene to make sense.

Examples of TSSM quips that are contextual:

1) To thieves robbing the pie/bakery. One mentions that they aren't to steal the food as it's his relatives shop. Spidey quips "so you'll rob from the piggie bank but not from the cookie jar."
2) When lizard about to eat a lady in the train station "Sorry pal no eating in the subway". Not the best quip but it's contextual.
3) Sandman about to defeat spider-man and says "Now king sandman reigns supreme". Spidey then says "Your majesty, allow me to build a statue in your honour" before covering him in cement.

Put these in any other scene and it would make zero sense. Context is important for a good spider-man quip. TSSM is littered with contextual quips. They aren't always super witty, but they fit the scene and you can tell the writers put thought into them.

Contrast largely interchangeable / context-free examples from:

A) TASM2 - A lot of what he says in the opening action scene could be said in other situations and still make sense. His introduction to Rhino at the start he could say to any criminal in any situation.
B) Civil war - "You have the right to remain silent" could be said to any criminal in any context. It's a pretty stock standard line and "works" in any context on a base level.
C) TASM1 - "So you don't want to talk" *webs lizards face* - could be done to any criminal really. There's nothing that ties it to the context. Also the "dont. make me. have to. hurt you!" as spidey gets swung into the lockers could be inserted into any situation where spidey is getting a beatdown, which let's face it, happens often.
D) SM3 "I guess you haven't heard, I'm the sherrif around these parts". Could insert this into any (first) encounter with a criminal, especially the latter half of the sentence.

- Intelligent: Peter Parker is smart/educated/scientifically minded and his quips in TSSM sometimes reflect this. For example:

1) *To Doc Ock* Come on, Doc. You're a cephalopod, I'm an arthropod. Can't we just hug it out?
2) *To Colonel Jupiter* Hey Colonel Stupider, is it true you're getting denser by the minute?" (this quip is also high in wit and is an outright joke, which i'll get to later.)
3) Ock: "Glib does not equate to clever, spider-man!" Spider-man: Yeah, well the ratio of arms to sanity hasn't exactly been established either."
4) To Lizard "Can you say Halitosis?"

Contrast the other films, and there really isn't any example I can think of other than in Civil War where he comments on Falcon's wings (I'll explain why this quip isn't as good as it could be below). And these intelligence-showing quips are in a children's cartoon, yet the blockbuster films more targetted at older age groups don't make spider-man's intelligence shine through when he quips...

- Not simply saying what he sees: Sometimes the films just have spider-man comment on what is happening with no real thought whatsover. there's no attempt to write something clever/witty etc. Examples of the films doing this below:

A) Civil War - "You have a metal arm? That is awesome dude!" This line is just so basic; a remark about Bucky's metal arm ends up on screen as literally spider-man remarking about there being a metal arm.
B) TASM2 - "Hello Pedestrians!" Spider-man is swinging by during the opening and says this. Again, no effort, they wanted him to say something to the people of new york and he just says hello.

- Wit / actual jokes / puns: TSSM has some very funny and witty quips, for example:

1) *To Colonel Jupiter* Hey Colonel Stupider, is it true you're getting denser by the minute?"
2) *To Rhino* Wait, wait, WEIGHT! *Drops shelves of dumbbells on Rhino.
3) Spidey to Kraven: Where did you come from?
Kraven: Mother Russia. By way of mother Africa.
Spidey: Tst, Two moms and still so ill-behaved?
4) After getting fed up with human Kraven and how he is no match for spider-man "Oh, Kraven off..." (as if to say piss off, or f*** off)

There's also banter in TSSM, with the people spider-man is conversing with giving as good as they get. I would recommend watching spidey's first encounter with black cat. that conversation is some great banter and both get some nice witty dialogue. There's no examples of funny, extended back and forth in the films going from my memory.

- Finally, delivery is key

A contextual quip in TSSM is delivered well. As is an intelligent quip and a witty quip. Keaton makes you believe that there is a smart and kind person delivering the dialogue (Peter Parker is both of these things). Peter Parker is also mature for his age due to his intelligence, and doesn't/shouldn't speak like a ninja turtle. Examples of poor delivery / delivery that could have been improved from the films:

TASM1 - Pretty much every line of dialogue has spider-man sounding arrogant or threatening or jerkish. This is of course a matter of opinion but I implore you to watch TSSM where he says some insults to people, but they never sound mean spirited. The closest he comes to being a jerk in TSSM is when he is teasing Rhino in the underground to make him pass out from sweating. Even this scene, Keaton finds a good balance.

Civil War - Holland's enthusiasm and cadence (sound of his voice) is great, but the dialogue and him saying things like awesome and dude make him sound like Donatello and less intelligent / mature than in TSSM. TSSM does not have Spider-man talking like a Ninja Turtle. He doesn't say awesome, dude, cool or man at the end of quips. He speaks like a clever, intelligent teenager IMHO...

TASM2 - Again, there's a thug-like quality to Garfield's delivery. His cadence is deep/rough and I just don't think it fits the character. There's no kindness or lightness to a lot of what he says. Everything has an attitude.

Summing up:

Humour is subjective but I feel like we all love TSSM and there's a reason for this consensus. Spider-man's quips should contain at least one, and ideally a combination, of the following qualities:

i) Contextual
ii) Intelligent / demonstrates Peter Parker's intelligence
iii) Wit / pun / actual joke with setup and payoff

The quips should furthermore NOT simply have spider-man comment about what he is seeing or doing at a very basic level (e.g. metal arm quip). If it feels like placeholder dialogue on the screen then the writer's haven't tried hard enough.

Opportunities for banter between spidey and others only strengthen his humour as you can receive multiple quips in succession that build on one another. TSSM has a lot of great back and forth between hero and villain.

Finally, bringing it all together is the actor's delivery. Keaton did it great, and I feel like no matter what is on the page, the actor needs to bring a lightness and kindness to quips, which are often insults to enemies.

After all, he's called friendly neighbourhood spider-man for a reason.
 
That's about the best post I've ever read about Spidey's quips. Yeah, I enjoyed seeing him in Civil War and I have high hopes for his future in the MCU, but his humor was definitely lacking.

And man, I really need to rewatch SSM. It's been too long.
 
Bravo Repulsor Blast, bravo! :up:
 
Repulsor Blast, that was a well written post, and covers the idea of Spidey's quips well. Hopefully, his lack of quips comes from meeting his heroes for the first time and that will change when he fights actual criminals.
 
Excellent post, Repulsor Blast. CW Spidey was funny, but not so much in the way that classic Spidey is funny/witty.
 
Amazing, sensational, spectacular post, Repulsor. :up: Really broke down the problem with Spidey's quips in Civil War as well as why Spidey came off as a bully in TASM movies. It's almost scary how perfect Spectacular's version of Spidey really was. I wish they would've let Greg in on the movies seeing as he understands the character's personality seemingly better than anyone who's ever written Spidey in the movies.
 
If there's one thing those Vacation writers can do pretty well, it's comedy. Horrible Bosses was hilarious. I'm confident they delivered on the quips.

Btw, excellent post, Repulsor.
 
I agree about Horrible Bosses. Hopefully we'll get a truly hilarious, quipping Spidey.
 
Repulsor Blast said:
I feel that when in these discussions about spider-man's quips, there's people with clearly different sense of humours and dare I say desires for how they want their spider-man to be.

But I come back to the fact that we all seem to agree that TSSM spidey is a great take, and he quipped regularly in that show.

Let's look at the qualities of spidey's quips in TSSM cartoon:

- Contextual: What he says fits the situation he is in much more often than not. You could not take a lot of what spider-man says when he is quipping and put it in another scene to make sense.

Examples of TSSM quips that are contextual:

1) To thieves robbing the pie/bakery. One mentions that they aren't to steal the food as it's his relatives shop. Spidey quips "so you'll rob from the piggie bank but not from the cookie jar."
2) When lizard about to eat a lady in the train station "Sorry pal no eating in the subway". Not the best quip but it's contextual.
3) Sandman about to defeat spider-man and says "Now king sandman reigns supreme". Spidey then says "Your majesty, allow me to build a statue in your honour" before covering him in cement.

Put these in any other scene and it would make zero sense. Context is important for a good spider-man quip. TSSM is littered with contextual quips. They aren't always super witty, but they fit the scene and you can tell the writers put thought into them.

Contrast largely interchangeable / context-free examples from:

A) TASM2 - A lot of what he says in the opening action scene could be said in other situations and still make sense. His introduction to Rhino at the start he could say to any criminal in any situation.
B) Civil war - "You have the right to remain silent" could be said to any criminal in any context. It's a pretty stock standard line and "works" in any context on a base level.
C) TASM1 - "So you don't want to talk" *webs lizards face* - could be done to any criminal really. There's nothing that ties it to the context. Also the "dont. make me. have to. hurt you!" as spidey gets swung into the lockers could be inserted into any situation where spidey is getting a beatdown, which let's face it, happens often.
D) SM3 "I guess you haven't heard, I'm the sherrif around these parts". Could insert this into any (first) encounter with a criminal, especially the latter half of the sentence.

- Intelligent: Peter Parker is smart/educated/scientifically minded and his quips in TSSM sometimes reflect this. For example:

1) *To Doc Ock* Come on, Doc. You're a cephalopod, I'm an arthropod. Can't we just hug it out?
2) *To Colonel Jupiter* Hey Colonel Stupider, is it true you're getting denser by the minute?" (this quip is also high in wit and is an outright joke, which i'll get to later.)
3) Ock: "Glib does not equate to clever, spider-man!" Spider-man: Yeah, well the ratio of arms to sanity hasn't exactly been established either."
4) To Lizard "Can you say Halitosis?"

Contrast the other films, and there really isn't any example I can think of other than in Civil War where he comments on Falcon's wings (I'll explain why this quip isn't as good as it could be below). And these intelligence-showing quips are in a children's cartoon, yet the blockbuster films more targetted at older age groups don't make spider-man's intelligence shine through when he quips...

- Not simply saying what he sees: Sometimes the films just have spider-man comment on what is happening with no real thought whatsover. there's no attempt to write something clever/witty etc. Examples of the films doing this below:

A) Civil War - "You have a metal arm? That is awesome dude!" This line is just so basic; a remark about Bucky's metal arm ends up on screen as literally spider-man remarking about there being a metal arm.
B) TASM2 - "Hello Pedestrians!" Spider-man is swinging by during the opening and says this. Again, no effort, they wanted him to say something to the people of new york and he just says hello.

- Wit / actual jokes / puns: TSSM has some very funny and witty quips, for example:

1) *To Colonel Jupiter* Hey Colonel Stupider, is it true you're getting denser by the minute?"
2) *To Rhino* Wait, wait, WEIGHT! *Drops shelves of dumbbells on Rhino.
3) Spidey to Kraven: Where did you come from?
Kraven: Mother Russia. By way of mother Africa.
Spidey: Tst, Two moms and still so ill-behaved?
4) After getting fed up with human Kraven and how he is no match for spider-man "Oh, Kraven off..." (as if to say piss off, or f*** off)

There's also banter in TSSM, with the people spider-man is conversing with giving as good as they get. I would recommend watching spidey's first encounter with black cat. that conversation is some great banter and both get some nice witty dialogue. There's no examples of funny, extended back and forth in the films going from my memory.

- Finally, delivery is key

A contextual quip in TSSM is delivered well. As is an intelligent quip and a witty quip. Keaton makes you believe that there is a smart and kind person delivering the dialogue (Peter Parker is both of these things). Peter Parker is also mature for his age due to his intelligence, and doesn't/shouldn't speak like a ninja turtle. Examples of poor delivery / delivery that could have been improved from the films:

TASM1 - Pretty much every line of dialogue has spider-man sounding arrogant or threatening or jerkish. This is of course a matter of opinion but I implore you to watch TSSM where he says some insults to people, but they never sound mean spirited. The closest he comes to being a jerk in TSSM is when he is teasing Rhino in the underground to make him pass out from sweating. Even this scene, Keaton finds a good balance.

Civil War - Holland's enthusiasm and cadence (sound of his voice) is great, but the dialogue and him saying things like awesome and dude make him sound like Donatello and less intelligent / mature than in TSSM. TSSM does not have Spider-man talking like a Ninja Turtle. He doesn't say awesome, dude, cool or man at the end of quips. He speaks like a clever, intelligent teenager IMHO...

TASM2 - Again, there's a thug-like quality to Garfield's delivery. His cadence is deep/rough and I just don't think it fits the character. There's no kindness or lightness to a lot of what he says. Everything has an attitude.

Summing up:

Humour is subjective but I feel like we all love TSSM and there's a reason for this consensus. Spider-man's quips should contain at least one, and ideally a combination, of the following qualities:

i) Contextual
ii) Intelligent / demonstrates Peter Parker's intelligence
iii) Wit / pun / actual joke with setup and payoff

The quips should furthermore NOT simply have spider-man comment about what he is seeing or doing at a very basic level (e.g. metal arm quip). If it feels like placeholder dialogue on the screen then the writer's haven't tried hard enough.

Opportunities for banter between spidey and others only strengthen his humour as you can receive multiple quips in succession that build on one another. TSSM has a lot of great back and forth between hero and villain.

Finally, bringing it all together is the actor's delivery. Keaton did it great, and I feel like no matter what is on the page, the actor needs to bring a lightness and kindness to quips, which are often insults to enemies.

After all, he's called friendly neighbourhood spider-man for a reason.
Click to expand...



Billy-D_Approves.gif
 
MyDudeSpidey said:
If there's one thing those Vacation writers can do pretty well, it's comedy. Horrible Bosses was hilarious. I'm confident they delivered on the quips.

Btw, excellent post, Repulsor.
Click to expand...

Yep. Horrible Bosses 2 wasn't that bad either.

People really overreacted because of Vacation, but they had a few other good movies under their belts.
 
I have hope with the writers, too. I think the approach they're taking is perfect, especially with such a young cast.
 
If I have to be honest, even if Maguire made less quips, the ones he made were infinitely more funny than Garfield's. To me, Garfield's Spider Man felt more like a cartoon character than anything else, especially so in the second Amazing Spider Man. Unpopular opinion, but I am just bored of Spider Man in cinema at this point. I don'5 know who suggested it, but a Netflix show with more serious and impactful stories would be better than any of the explosionfest quipfests Marvel could put in theaters.
 
MuslimGayBatman said:
If I have to be honest, even if Maguire made less quips, the ones he made were infinitely more funny than Garfield's. To me, Garfield's Spider Man felt more like a cartoon character than anything else, especially so in the second Amazing Spider Man. Unpopular opinion, but I am just bored of Spider Man in cinema at this point. I don'5 know who suggested it, but a Netflix show with more serious and impactful stories would be better than any of the explosionfest quipfests Marvel could put in theaters.
Click to expand...

While I disagree with some of your opinion, I am completely in agreement of a Netflix Spidey series. Only issue with that is that it'd be pretty damn costly. :csad:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

UltimateWebhead
  • Poll Poll
Homecoming Official Rate Homecoming Thread ***NO DISCUSSION***
Replies
1
Views
6K
UltimateWebhead
UltimateWebhead
Web-Head
  • Locked
Far From Home Spider-Man Sequel General Discussion and Speculation
39 40 41
Replies
1K
Views
92K
Thread Manager
T
T
  • Sticky
Homecoming Spider-Man Homecoming (2017) General Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 113
31 32 33
Replies
808
Views
119K
Schlosser85
Schlosser85
T
  • Locked
Homecoming Spider-Man Homecoming (2017) General Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 112
39 40 41
Replies
1K
Views
100K
Thread Manager
T
T
  • Locked
Homecoming Spider-Man Homecoming (2017) General Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 111
39 40 41
Replies
1K
Views
108K
Thread Manager
T

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)

Members online

Total: 14,547 (members: 27, guests: 14,520)

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
201,845
Messages
22,034,179
Members
45,829
Latest member
AheadOfTheCurve

Share this page

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"