Comics Spidey in July '07

[SpideyInATree]

Quesada on One More Day:

QUESADA: The question of their marriage is finally going to be answered and I think old-time fans…for those who like the status quo will be pretty happy.

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/wizard/004415250.cfm

So, he's basically saying that the marriage will stay in tact? That's what I'm getting from it. Though Quesada is a lot like Bendis when he says stuff...you never know if he's BSing you or not.

 

[Themanofbat]

A friend of mine suggested that Peter has to pull the plug on Aunt May... effectively "killing" her.

I wonder if Marvel would go that route with her character getting a successful second kick at the cat...

Then again, if they do go that route, maybe "One More Day" will bring her back...

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

If his ideas sucked, he wouldn't have had a good 3, 4 years of acclaimed stories before Sins Past came along.

To be honest, JMS' run was never all that amazing. His characterization of Peter, which was really good, was what made a lot of his stories appealing.

The Totem arc never really went anywhere other than vague mystical mumbo jumbo. People say the ending left things open as to whether he was mystical or science based or not, but it really didn't.

The Doc Ock story was alright, the HYDRA story was overrated imo. The Molten Man 2 arc was formulaic.

The Other and Sins Past were complete disasters. He likes to blame Joe Q for making him change the parents of the children but that still doesn't excuse the crap we got.

The only story that he really did completely right was Aunt May discovering Peter was Spider-Man. That was flawless.

I appreciate him getting Pete and MJ back together but the actual reasons behind it were a bit weak. Ah well, beggars can't be choosers I suppose.

The majority of the villains he came up with were boring. Morlun's only famous for his fight scenes, as a character he's got 0 depth. Digger was okay but nothing special, he could have used a few different powers besides just being really strong. For the most part he created a gallery of forgettable rogues.

JMS' Civil War arc left me really cold. Not only did I not like Peter's role in it, he wrote Stark and Reed as total fascists instead of trying to help us understand their positions.

 

[CConn]

In your personal opinion it wasn't that good. At the time, and still (although, to a lesser extent, sure) his run was VERY well-received. Especially after years of truly crappy Spider-Man stories.

I highly, highly doubt if JMS had never written Sins Past or The Other - if he just stopped at The Book of Ezekiel, anyone would be complaining at the moment.

Y'know, I'm not trying to say that he shouldn't be judged for his couple bad stories - he should - it just seems like A LOT of people here want to paint everything he's ever written as utter crap just because he turned out a few bad stories.

 

[Venom07]

Y'know, I'm not trying to say that he shouldn't be judged for his couple bad stories - he should - it just seems like A LOT of people here want to paint everything he's ever written as utter crap just because he turned out a few bad stories.

He didn't turn out a couple of bad stories, he turned out some of the WORST stories in the history of Spider-Man, some people would argue THE worst stories in the history of Spider-Man. Sins Past is an absolute horror! Think about what that turns Gwen into? And even Mary Jane for knowing and lying all those years. How it destroys and pays no respect or regards to what some of the truly great comic book writers of the past did. And what was the point of The Other? Seriously? A power upgrade? Was it really neccessary to go through all that, to kill him off and bring him back for a power upgrade (some of which he already had) and those stupid stingers? Those 2 stories alone utterly destroy his whole "legacy" on Spider-Man.
Just like a "good" athlete can go down in history as "great" because of succeeding in that one big moment, on that one big stage, with everything on the line so can a career be defined by failure on a grand scale. (Bill Buckner & Scott Norwood anyone?) No matter what JMS did or does in regards to Spider-Man, Sins Past and The Other will be what defines his run. At least that's my opinion.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

In your personal opinion it wasn't that good. At the time, and still (although, to a lesser extent, sure) his run was VERY well-received. Especially after years of truly crappy Spider-Man stories.

I think you sort of hit the nail on the head there. Part of the reason that everybody (myself included) started off enjoying JMS' run was the crap we had just endured.

But, it can be denied that the Morlun arc was certainly dramatic (it was his best story arc), but when you look back on it, the story's only saved by JMS' strong characterization of Peter. The fight itself is engaging and JMS really gets the sense of desperation across, but the story also introduces the Totem crap and we get more than a few pages filled with that silly quasi-mystical speak, and Morlun, as I said is nothing more than an over glorified prop.

 

[Guybrush]

He didn't turn out a couple of bad stories, he turned out some of the WORST stories in the history of Spider-Man, some people would argue THE worst stories in the history of Spider-Man. Sins Past is an absolute horror! Think about what that turns Gwen into? And even Mary Jane for knowing and lying all those years. How it destroys and pays no respect or regards to what some of the truly great comic book writers of the past did. And what was the point of The Other? Seriously? A power upgrade? Was it really neccessary to go through all that, to kill him off and bring him back for a power upgrade (some of which he already had) and those stupid stingers? Those 2 stories alone utterly destroy his whole "legacy" on Spider-Man.
Just like a "good" athlete can go down in history as "great" because of succeeding in that one big moment, on that one big stage, with everything on the line so can a career be defined by failure on a grand scale. (Bill Buckner & Scott Norwood anyone?) No matter what JMS did or does in regards to Spider-Man, Sins Past and The Other will be what defines his run. At least that's my opinion.

Sins Past wasn't a bad story, it was a bad concept. If you'll replace Peter Parker with some random Joe, Mary Jane with a random Jane and Gwen with a random Jill, you could enjoy the story. The art also fitted right to the story. Again the problem with the story that this are characters we all know and love, and it screw with them too much.

The Other on the other hand is both a bad story and a bad concept, but it was a bad story that was contributed by 3 different creative teams, and the worst issues of the event wasn't even on Amazing. It was pure garbage indeed, but almost every writer have at least one terrible story arc per run. Stan Lee last arc was terrible as well.

 

[Dmain_Event]

There is a ring on the finger of the woman that spiderman is holding (does may still were her ring?). I am thinking that means it is goodbuy Mary Jane. If they want to kill of an excellent chararcter like Mary Jane, they might as well kill off some of the Crap that we have been experiencing low these many years. Organic Webshooters, All that totem bull_*****, And so much more **** that I can't even remember.
Let me set the record straight as young guy that has enjoyed spidey comics for about close to 10 years now (Been a spidey fan for about 15 and I am only 23), Sins Past, and the Other were THE crappiest spidey stories ever. I don't own all of the comics books but I have read most of them... and by far, they are the worst. They have left such a bad taste in my mouth, to this day I don't buy spiderman comics (I will read them online however just to see what is going on). I will not pay for this garbage until the worst of this crud is retconned. I guess I can live with the organic webshooters (what is so infuriating about those is that they put them in because they were in the movie... thus peters enginuity is ****ted on once again). But the rest of JMS garbage has got to go.
Sorry for the rant.

 

[Venom07]

If you'll replace Peter Parker with some random Joe, Mary Jane with a random Jane and Gwen with a random Jill, you could enjoy the story.

Even if I agreed with you on that (which I don't), that's the problem though, it IS Peter, Gwen and Mary Jane. These characters have well established histories, personalities, traits, etc. To write a story like that, using these characters and using them out of character is lazy to say the least.
And that's been the problem with his run, some of the characters, a lot of times Peter, do not act like themselves. Half the time he's written like a total idiot in all fashions. I understand creative license to a degree but there comes a point when it isn't creative license anymore, it's a writer not giving a s*** and telling the story he\she wants to tell regardless of the history and personalities of the character. It's a writer wanting to put his\her stamp on a character without actually telling a great story but by doing something "shocking" or something that will change the character forever, blah, blah, blah.
Kraven's last hunt was "shocking" and changed the Spider-Man universe to a degree BUT it was a hell of a story and the characters doing the things they did and the reasons they did them made sense and it fit. Anyway, that's just my opinion and I could be wrong.

 

[kguillou]

I SERIOUSLY doubt they're gonna kill MJ, especially after reading the Sensational annual. BUT, Quesada worries me, he said in that interview that he didnt like to see Peter Parker grow up and age, so im afraid he's goin to force JMS to do something incredibly stupid in order to maintain Peter's single status quo from back in the 70's. Dammit, Quesada, don't you get it? Peter cant be young forever, he's got to grow up. What they should be doing is killing off aunt may for good, and giving Peter his child back. That would be an excellent way to progress Peter's life and change the status quo at the same time.

 

[Dangerous]

Sins Past wasn't a bad story, it was a bad concept. If you'll replace Peter Parker with some random Joe, Mary Jane with a random Jane and Gwen with a random Jill, you could enjoy the story. The art also fitted right to the story. Again the problem with the story that this are characters we all know and love, and it screw with them too much.

The Other on the other hand is both a bad story and a bad concept, but it was a bad story that was contributed by 3 different creative teams, and the worst issues of the event wasn't even on Amazing. It was pure garbage indeed, but almost every writer have at least one terrible story arc per run. Stan Lee last arc was terrible as well.

Don’t mean to come over like an elitist dick, but you clearly don’t know what you are talking about.

Spider-man is Peter/MJ/Gwen etc, therefore you cannot just replace them in your mind w/ someone else to enjoy the story. Why should I? If I buy ASM I want to read about Spidey.
Apart from SP being an abomination of miss characterisations from a conceptual point of view, it makes absolutely no sense in terms of continuity.

Prior to SP what had JMS done?
He mostly ‘got’ PP and he really fleshed out MJ and May very well, wrote May probably better than anyone else ever had, but so what. Oh, and there was Vol2 #36 the WTC tribute- that was the only amazing issue of Amazing Spider-Man he ever produced.

He created a load of crappy B-grade villains and as soon as he delved into continuity for the first time w/ SP he proved what a hack he really was. His whole four year run (prior to SP) was building toward the conclusion of #508, and when that came what happened? Basically nothing.

I’m not even gonna talk about The Other.
As for Stan Lee’s last arc it might not have been great but it was not a quarter as crap as either of JMS’ fabled atrocities.

 

[Guybrush]

Of course its all opinions, but for me, Sins Past was a bad idea executed well.

I enjoyed most of the scenes in the arc, and the art fitted the story really well. I mean in the flashback scene Gwen was portrayed much better then she did during the Lee/Romita days. Now I admit I was never a Gwen fan, she was a boring character for the most part so the concept probably didn't bother me as much as it did other people. Even tho I agree it was a bad idea, I could still enjoy most of the story. The last couple of issues were weak and the ending was poor, but it was far away from being the worst Spider-Man story ever created.

Was it a mistake to publish such a story? Probably. But there are much worse Spidey stories out there. Just ask John Byrne.

 

[USMC]

“When people look back on Joe [Straczynski]’s run they are really going to be appreciative of what he did with the character,” says Quesada, who initially hired Straczynski to write on the book. “The level of consistency that Joe brought to this title, the level of craft and beautiful writing that he brought to Spider-Man for these last six years, is something that in retrospect people will look back on and say, ‘Wow, that was a hell of a run.’ Not only the quality, but staying with the character for that many years when he had another day job on top of it.”

 

[Rez]

I love his run up to 508. People say that at the end, it was pointless, because "nothing happened." What do you mean? Plenty happened. The story had an arc and it had closure and there was no where else for it to go. It was a very good story.

People say that he created a totally stock and forgettable villian in Morlun and I'd agree, but you have to remember that it was Ezekiel that is the true villian of the thing- and one of the most interesting new characters to pop up in a Spiderbook in years.

The biggest complaint of the whole thing I can muster up is that line about "never before fighting with someone with the same powers," but for all I know they could have still been practicing that unspoken "never mention the Clone Saga" rule. And that's not much of a complaint at all.