Superman Returns SR Sequel: $200 million or else!?

[Thunder Emperor]

-A 75 percent rating on rottentomatoes and general acceptance by critics across the board.

-General fan acceptance. Most here at SHH have rated it an 8, 9 or a 10.

-Solid box office. Made half it's (massive) budget (Some of which was attributed to SUPERMAN LIVES projects) back within a week and a half of release, has continued to make money, and will continue to make money domestically and overseas, and will clean up in DVD sales.

-Merchandising and licenses, including fast food deals, toys, apparel, video games, comics, novels, etc.

Is it the most successful movie ever? Hell no, but it HAS succeeded.

when people keep talking merchandise sales, i don't see sr toys moving in stores. I know hulk toys were a huge hit. also box is not solid. it has made 164 million which is not half its budget, casue studio share 50/50 with theaters so right now sr has made 82 million for Wband legendary pics.

 

[DA Harvey Dent]

-A 75 percent rating on rottentomatoes and general acceptance by critics across the board.

-General fan acceptance. Most here at SHH have rated it an 8, 9 or a 10.

-Solid box office. Made half it's (massive) budget (Some of which was attributed to SUPERMAN LIVES projects) back within a week and a half of release, has continued to make money, and will continue to make money domestically and overseas, and will clean up in DVD sales.

-Merchandising and licenses, including fast food deals, toys, apparel, video games, comics, novels, etc.

Is it the most successful movie ever? Hell no, but it HAS succeeded.

In your mind it has succeeded. In WB's mind it has not. I'm certain they were expecting at least $300 million domestic. And it won't reach that. Ultimately, they foot the bill, so I'm gonna weigh their measure of success a little more than yours.

 

[Frodo]

Well I think the next Superman film is gonna get an Extreme Makeover from SR.

 

[The Guard]

In your mind it has succeeded. In WB's mind it has not. I'm certain they were expecting at least $300 million domestic. And it won't reach that. Ultimately, they foot the bill, so I'm gonna weigh their measure of success a little more than yours.

And...you know whether WB (as if it consists of one person) considers it a success, or for that matter, know WB's measure of success, period...how, exactly? Notice, btw, that I did not say "Succeeded according to WB's standards". I said "succeeded". As is often the case when fanboys fail to grasp a simple concept, let's look at a simple, concise defintion of "succeeded", shall we?

"To accomplish something desired or intended"

Now, I believe that, and have reason to believe that, SUPERMAN RETURNS may have been intended by Bryan Singer to make people think. If it made people think, than he has succeeded in his goal, has he not?

Conversely, WB may have intended SUPERMAN RETURNS to sell toys. If it sold ANY toys, it has succeeded. It intended SUPERMAN RETURNS to make money, as we all know. If the film did, in fact, make lots of money, it has succeeded in that regard, has it not?

SUPERMAN RETURNS has succeeded in a number of areas. You all seem just to be concerned with how MUCH it has succeeded, and it seems to keep coming back to "box office equals quality", which is laughable. Box office equals "did the mainstream flock to it in droves", not quality.

You people and your blanket statements.

 

[DA Harvey Dent]

And...you know whether WB (as if it consists of one person) considers it a success, or for that matter, know WB's measure of success, period...how, exactly? Notice, btw, that I did not say "Succeeded according to WB's standards". I said "succeeded". As is often the case when fanboys fail to grasp a simple concept, let's look at a simple, concise defintion of "succeeded", shall we?

"To accomplish something desired or intended"

Now, I believe that, and have reason to believe that, SUPERMAN RETURNS may have been intended by Bryan Singer to make people think. If it made people think, than he has succeeded in his goal, has he not?

Conversely, WB may have intended SUPERMAN RETURNS to sell toys. If it sold ANY toys, it has succeeded. It intended SUPERMAN RETURNS to make money, as we all know. If the film did, in fact, make lots of money, it has succeeded in that regard, has it not?

SUPERMAN RETURNS has succeeded in a number of areas. You all seem just to be concerned with how MUCH it has succeeded, and it seems to keep coming back to "box office equals quality", which is laughable. Box office equals "did the mainstream flock to it in droves", not quality.

You people and your blanket statements.

I don't know their measure of success, I can only speculate. But given trends of similarly touted box office hits, I can reasonably assume WB wanted $300 million domestic. Given a budget of $200 million plus $50 million in ancilliary costs and that expectation would be 20% - a plausible figure.
And you're using success as a blanket statement. YOU may deem it a success, Singer may deem it a success, but I don't think WB would deem it a success. No one is arguing BO equals quality. What we are saying is BO is a measuring factor of success with SR, why? b/c of its budget. And in that department it has fallen short.

 

[The Guard]

As much fun as domestic take is, it is not the end-all be all of SUPERMAN RETURNS' earning power.

First, WB knew they were dropping a ton of money to make this movie happen. They knew that there was the chance they might not get it all back from the box office. But I'm pretty sure that much smarter minds inside WB knew PIRATES 2 was coming, and knew SUPERMAN RETURNS wasn't going to be quite the juggernaut it could have been, and accounted for this early on. Frankly, I've never said it's been a massive moneymaking success at the box office. In fact, I could care less how much money SUPERMAN RETURNS makes. It came out, it's selling merchandise, it's going to DVD, and a sequel is highly likely.

 

[charl_huntress]

As much fun as domestic take is, it is not the end-all be all of SUPERMAN RETURNS' earning power.

Okay, I've been reading this thead for a bit...with my long hiatus

Anyway, here's my deal. Let's try to look at it like this.

You are buying a car. Though, you and I may not figure the cost of trying to buy the car for the past ten years into the scheme of things it is figured into it because you always need to pay your own cost first.

Still, it is something to be considered, even if it isn't hurting your pocket book

Remember, we have been trying to buy this car for years, and now you finally have the money.

Well, you can't help yourself...of course

We've past those cut off cost a long time ago, for sure! However, when you pay for something you never forget the cost.

SR cost money, and you folks still hyping unknown numbers that are supposed to just be pure profit...well, you should read an Economics book.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Economics? Books?

Read?

Sounds like Jibber Jabber to me.

 

[charl_huntress]

Economics? Books?

Read?

Sounds like Jibber Jabber to me.

What are you talking about dude

 

[The Guard]

How does buying a car I have wanted to buy for years compare to WB's experience with SUPERMAN RETURNS? Have I been spending money on a car I wasn't actually purchasing for years or something?

 

[DA Harvey Dent]

But I'm pretty sure that much smarter minds inside WB knew PIRATES 2 was coming, and knew SUPERMAN RETURNS wasn't going to be quite the juggernaut it could have been, and accounted for this early on.

Of course they did, that's why the moved the release date up to get a head start. What they didn't know was the sheer rappage that POTC2 was going to do at the BO. They knew they were gonna be azz raped, they just thought they would bleed a little, not require extensive reconstructive surgery. You can put all the spin you want on it - good plot, posititve critic reviews, merchandising, foreign BO, you're own definition of "success" but the reality is they took a gamble and lost. And a sequel is hardly likely, its highly UNLIKELY at this point.

 

[charl_huntress]

How does buying a car I have wanted to buy for years compare to WB's experience with SUPERMAN RETURNS? Have I been spending money on a car I wasn't actually purchasing for years or something?

Let me explain it to you.

My name is WB....Wanta Beyour*****

Anyway, I'm saving up and I have funds for this car, but it just putters out and I keep plugging money into it..about sixty million worth.

After a while, I got mechanic and he really seems like hot ****. However, he's just full of it. I get half an engine fixed, and some tires filled with air...but the car is kind of lacking.

I've been saving for this car and it's a piece of **** and my money is took...do I need to keep explaining

 

[The Guard]

Of course they did, that's why the moved the release date up to get a head start. What they didn't know was the sheer rappage that POTC2 was going to do at the BO. They knew they were gonna be azz raped, they just thought they would bleed a little, not require extensive reconstructive surgery. They took a gamble and lost.

Methinks they would have lost more had they not moved up the date of release. So it was a good business move, and a smart "risk", compared to the risk of not moving up the release date.

Let me explain it to you.

My name is WB....Wanta Beyour*****

Anyway, I'm saving up and I have funds for this car, but it just putters out and I keep plugging money into it..about sixty million worth.

After a while, I got mechanic and he really seems like hot ****. However, he's just full of it. I get half an engine fixed, and some tires filled with air...but the car is kind of lacking.

I've been saving for this car and it's a piece of **** and my money is took...do I need to keep explain

Indeed you do need to keep explaining. For instance, why the hell would anyone pour money into a car that is a piece of crap when you don't even own it or lease it or what have you, especially if all they want to do is OWN the car? Bad analogy, because you forget one tiny detail: WB/LEGENDARY/whoever doesn't want to just OWN SUPERMAN RETURNS, it wants to SELL it as a product and make tons of money off it.

The analogies at SHH continue to suck. Now, if we were talking about a company spending a crapload of money to DEVELOP and BUILD a car, then your analogy might actually make sense. Right now...not a fig.

Know what does make sense? This theory of profitmaking:

http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/Demyst3.htm

And this one:

http://www.slate.com/id/2124078/fr/rss/

Nevermind toy licenses, fast food licenses, apparel licenses, the inevitable SUPERMAN RETURNS kids show, etc...

 

[Ita-KalEl]

The Guard is useless.
They can't understand.
They don't want to understand.

 

[The Guard]

o...k...

Is that "The Guard it's useless" or "The Guard is useless"?

 

[Hunter Rider]

o...k...

he missed an it out

The Guard it is useless

 

[highguard]

How does buying a car I have wanted to buy for years compare to WB's experience with SUPERMAN RETURNS? Have I been spending money on a car I wasn't actually purchasing for years or something?

To borrow from your earlier post, success is a determination driven by goals. Movies are made to make money. Now if you have money there are many ways to make more money with your money. You can invest in stocks, purchase real estate or make movies. TW through WB makes movies.

The reason for that is that is they have expertise in the movie business, However they are a publicly traded company. The shareholders only interest is in how the success of superman or any other movie will affect the value of their stocks. As such the COO or president of TW has if he has any sense has to have a goal of maximizing his shareholder's wealth.

The valuation of these stocks are directly determined by the BO performance of a film and analysts forecasts of future films tied to the performance of a known property such as Superman. They use the BO of a film as an indicator for BO of its sequels. Even the announcement of a sequel will affect the share price of TW stock.

If the president of a company does not care about the shareholders money he will shortly find himself with a pink slip from the board of his company.

This is the way public companies are run.

When Superman or any movie is greenlit it is obviously based on the projected forecast or return on investment. The average return of the stock market is said to be 10 % over time. If the company you invest in is not giving you more than 10 % most shareholders move their money elsewhere (we are always looking for the best kept secret). This is how people lose their jobs.

It is clear that Superman could I think have done Spiderman numbers. As such I suspect the internal forecasting was higher than the numbers we are seeing. To suggest that TW does not care that much about the money is nonsense. They waited all this time to restart the franchise, why is that do you think. I beleive they care very much how much money SR makes. I can bet that in the back of their heads are the POTC2, Xmen, Spiderman, and Batman Begins BO numbers.

If I was the head of TW I would be working full time trying to track down the reasons my actuals are so different from my projected estimates. that is what the studios do every Sunday when the try to estimate what Sunday will do BO for a movie after they see the saturday numbers, why, cause that info affects the stocks monday morning when the stock market opens.

Superman is bigger than Spideraman and it started the whole comic book movie industry. I never thought superheros could be translated to the big screen but that movie proved me wrong.

I feel sorry for Singer, brandon and everyone else. This is now a very precarious situation for them. For their sakes supes has to get to at least 200m just so that the suits can try to pacify the shareholders. They can play with the numbers as much as they like but Xmen did 237m and counting. Like it or not the two rival studios are a benchmark for each other and the shareholders are taking note.

I truly hope that Supes pulls it off. STM was in my opinion easily the best superhero movie ever made. I hope Singer if he gets a shot can do better but I am sure that the suits are huddled somewhere watching these numbers as much as we are

 

[Ita-KalEl]

o...k...

Is that "The Guard it's useless" or "The Guard is useless"?

LOL
No it's "excuse me, I'm italian"

"The Guard it's useless"

 

[Mentok]

WB wont be making a decision until all the figures are in (that includes the DVD and merch sales)

 

[buggs0268]

-A 75 percent rating on rottentomatoes and general acceptance by critics across the board.

-General fan acceptance. Most here at SHH have rated it an 8, 9 or a 10.

And that explains why the posts in the complaints thread is in in the thousands and the number of posts in the we love it is in the hundreds. That is why most of the people here are pissed off. What are you smoking?

-Solid box office. Made half it's (massive) budget (Some of which was attributed to SUPERMAN LIVES projects) back within a week and a half of release, has continued to make money, and will continue to make money domestically and overseas, and will clean up in DVD sales.

Solid box office. It was expected to make 2 times as much the opening week. It was expected to still be in the number 1 or 2 spot by now. Warner's said it was a tent pole movie for them, and it is only at 164 mill in its 4th week of release. And it was sucha box office Warner is making every excuse it can on why it failed.

-Merchandising and licenses, including fast food deals, toys, apparel, video games, comics, novels, etc.

yeah I don't see them toys flying off the shelf. And why is it that the tie in wiht Burger King started 3 weeks after the movie came out? Who the hell dropped the ball on that.

Is it the most successful movie ever? Hell no, but it HAS succeeded.

No it hasn't. It is now second only to Poseidon in box office dispointment for Warners.

 

[buggs0268]

And...you know whether WB (as if it consists of one person) considers it a success, or for that matter, know WB's measure of success, period...how, exactly? Notice, btw, that I did not say "Succeeded according to WB's standards". I said "succeeded". As is often the case when fanboys fail to grasp a simple concept, let's look at a simple, concise defintion of "succeeded", shall we?

"To accomplish something desired or intended"

Now, I believe that, and have reason to believe that, SUPERMAN RETURNS may have been intended by Bryan Singer to make people think. If it made people think, than he has succeeded in his goal, has he not?

Conversely, WB may have intended SUPERMAN RETURNS to sell toys. If it sold ANY toys, it has succeeded. It intended SUPERMAN RETURNS to make money, as we all know. If the film did, in fact, make lots of money, it has succeeded in that regard, has it not?

SUPERMAN RETURNS has succeeded in a number of areas. You all seem just to be concerned with how MUCH it has succeeded, and it seems to keep coming back to "box office equals quality", which is laughable. Box office equals "did the mainstream flock to it in droves", not quality.

You people and your blanket statements.

Warning. No one ever go into business with the professor here. You could invest a million dollars and only sell one 5 dollar thing and he woudl be walking around like a c**k on the wall with pride over being so successful.

Bryan intened it to be good and profitable. Pressure was put on him to make a good-PROFITABLE movie. Not one that hasn't made even half of it's budget. Warners did not intend to make hundreds of thousands of Toys to sell just one. And there is no return number to make it a hit. So it failed miserably.

 

[charl_huntress]

Indeed you do need to keep explaining. For instance, why the hell would anyone pour money into a car that is a piece of crap when you don't even own it or lease it or what have you, especially if all they want to do is OWN the car? Bad analogy, because you forget one tiny detail: WB/LEGENDARY/whoever doesn't want to just OWN SUPERMAN RETURNS, it wants to SELL it as a product and make tons of money off it.

You are so full of **** that it hurts my feelings.

Okay, if they were really interested in selling him than you think they would sell him like he has been sold to the public market for the past ten years.

Let's look at STAS and LnC. What does that show you? Then look at SR and see if you can see what happened? Don't tell me that Singer choose a different path because his was struggling to make two hundred million WITH SUPERMAN, or his Singer Superman movie!!!!

And if an idiot like CHUCK Austen can make money with Superman. WHY can't Singer do it

Yeah, keep making excuses...I like that

The analogies at SHH continue to suck. Now, if we were talking about a company spending a crapload of money to DEVELOP and BUILD a car, then your analogy might make sense. Right now...not a fig.

Know what does make sense? This theory of profitmaking:

http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/Demyst3.htm

And this one:

http://www.slate.com/id/2124078/fr/rss/

Nevermind toy licenses, fast food licenses, apparel licenses, the inevitable SUPERMAN RETURNS kids show, etc...[/quote]

 

[mcflytrap]

This movie has already succeeded.

By struggling to make its budget back domestically? Yeah, a real success.

 

[buggs0268]

As much fun as domestic take is, it is not the end-all be all of SUPERMAN RETURNS' earning power.

First, WB knew they were dropping a ton of money to make this movie happen. They knew that there was the chance they might not get it all back from the box office. But I'm pretty sure that much smarter minds inside WB knew PIRATES 2 was coming, and knew SUPERMAN RETURNS wasn't going to be quite the juggernaut it could have been, and accounted for this early on. Frankly, I've never said it's been a massive moneymaking success at the box office. In fact, I could care less how much money SUPERMAN RETURNS makes. It came out, it's selling merchandise, it's going to DVD, and a sequel is highly likely.

so according to you, they knew they were going to fail and still just threw money at it anyway. And it is not selling merchandise. Toys are not moving off the shelves. Anyone see SR toy display at their local toy store with any change as to how many toys are on it as opposed to a few weeks ago. At all the Fred Meyers I ahve been too, I maybe have seen two or three dolls out of a few stores. It aint selling. Stop making stuff up.

 

[mcflytrap]

The Guard is useless.

We already knew that. He's great at grasping at straws. I'm still waiting on an audition tape.