Stallone blames Batman for the decline of 80s action heroes

I like the use of the word, 'blames', as if it's a bad thing that no-plot, no-brains 80's muscles and bullets movies have gone the way of the dodo.

Instead of blaming Batman, which is not really an action movie per se, Stallone should look at films like Die Hard and Lethal Weapon - when Hollywood realised that proper actors could be action heroes, and the movies could have stories.
 
BTW- "I didn't have to go to the gym for all those years." More like didn't have to abuse those human growth hormones and steroids.
You know that you still have to put in hard work at the gym while using HGH and Steroids, right?
 
It's ironic because Frank MIller actually wanted to make a movie version of TDKR with none other than Sly himself as Batman. I wonder how that would have changed the world..............

Sly Stallione is a good actor but Frank Miller is a terrible director so a TDKR film by him would of been crap.
 
What Made Arnold, Sly, Van Damme & Willis so memorable as action heroes, that sets them apart from Statham, Rock & Vin Diesel is their little quirks they had. For example:

Stallone: Weird mouth, can't talk properly

Arnold: Speaks with thick Austrian accent, very unique for an action star

Van Damme: Also a foreigner who sounds funny, but yet badass.

Willis: Always playing the down & out guy, who is rough as nails but with a heart of gold

Their unique & Iconic signatures that action stars today don't have IMO.

Steve

Actually, I think what sets them apart is the fact that they set the precedents of that genre, which makes them the most memorable. They took the action movie to a new level and standard. Has it been done better...well probably. But you always remember those that went to that level first because they left the biggest impact...and that's all it is really about when it comes to being remembered ...impact.

It's the same reason that Arnold will always be thought of as the greatest bodybuilder ever among most of the bodybuilding community. Even Arnold at his best couldn't compare to the competitors of today, and there have been those that have even gone on to break his bodybuilding championship records, but who cares. Arnold set the precedent. Hell, he probably inspired most of those that followed...just like I'm sure he did with the current action stars. Arnold, Sly..all of those guys saw an opportunity to push something to a new level and they decided to dive out in front of it.

Impact
 
JAK®;18582793 said:
You know that you still have to put in hard work at the gym while using HGH and Steroids, right?

yeah, I hate when people get that attitude too. I used to compete in bodybuilding and power lifting, and still do keep myself in good shape, but I never, ever took any illegal drug even though I still got accused of it. It's not like you can take that stuff and spend more time at Krispy Kreme than the gym, and still have that kind of physique. I've known plenty of people that did use that stuff, and it was funny. Some of them had good physiques..and some didn't. I think those that didn't gain much from it also didn't understand that it simply takes good old fashioned hard work. I guarantee, even without those substances, the people that developed great physiques would still have them regardless of drugs because they were able to make a commitment and apply hard work to it. That's the real secret.
 
It alos depends on genetics and natural build as well. Hemsworth was always a big guy, so he can add on muscle. I'm a pretty thin framed guy. I'm more toned than large. I can gain muscle, but I can't really bulk up like Hemsworth or Bale.
 
Aliens. Lethal Weapon. Die Hard. Batman. None of these films contributed to the fall of the so-called `80s action movies or their icons. Why? Because that's saying that all the Schwarzenegger and Stallone flicks are horrible and that their performances weren't worth a dime. That isn't true since they have made classics. Or atleast what the general public considers to be classics.

The real film to end the era was Terminator 2: Judgement Day. Why? Because it started the CGI craze. Action movies in the `80s were alternatives to the special effects films of Steven Spielberg and George Lucas. T2 changed that. You can call T2 science-fiction or fantasy, but at its core, it's action and audiences accepted it as such. So, with CGI, you could explore other genres. Even Toy Story is technically CGI. And, let's face it, the current generation of superhero movies wouldn't have happened without CGI. Spider-Man, X-Men, and Iron Man owe everything to Terminator 2 and Jurassic Park since it created the technology.
 
Aliens. Lethal Weapon. Die Hard. Batman. None of these films contributed to the fall of the so-called `80s action movies or their icons. Why? Because that's saying that all the Schwarzenegger and Stallone flicks are horrible and that their performances weren't worth a dime. That isn't true since they have made classics. Or atleast what the general public considers to be classics.

The real film to end the era was Terminator 2: Judgement Day. Why? Because it started the CGI craze. Action movies in the `80s were alternatives to the special effects films of Steven Spielberg and George Lucas. T2 changed that. You can call T2 science-fiction or fantasy, but at its core, it's action and audiences accepted it as such. So, with CGI, you could explore other genres. Even Toy Story is technically CGI. And, let's face it, the current generation of superhero movies wouldn't have happened without CGI. Spider-Man, X-Men, and Iron Man owe everything to Terminator 2 and Jurassic Park since it created the technology.


I agree, CGI opened up so many doors to things that filmakers could do. Batman 89' had no CGI in it whatsoever, so for Stallone to blame that is ridiculous. And to be honest, who cares if he had muscles made into the costume, don't be mad because the majority of people accepted Batman 89' and disliked Judge Dredd. Stallone didnt want to blame T2 because his 80's action buddy Arnold was in it.
 
The "80's" action film was dying already before Batman opened. Rambo III released a year earlier (which not only had a higher budget than Batman but was the most expensive movie at the time) tanked stateside. Already, as others had mentioned, the new kind of hero of John McClane was taking form.
 
I like the use of the word, 'blames', as if it's a bad thing that no-plot, no-brains 80's muscles and bullets movies have gone the way of the dodo.

Instead of blaming Batman, which is not really an action movie per se, Stallone should look at films like Die Hard and Lethal Weapon - when Hollywood realised that proper actors could be action heroes, and the movies could have stories.
I think he's pointing out the trend for Hollywood to no longer demand gym meatheads for action roles. Not necessarily that plot and brains are a bigger part of action films, but that the stars do not tend to have the herculean forms of Arnuld and Stallone.

A couple of sidebars...

...Bruce Willis is not a 'proper actor'. He was a veritable nobody when he did Die Hard, and really hasn't become known due to his acting ability. Stallone at least has the original Rocky movie to prove he's a credible actor. Bruce Willis, in my opinion, fills the same kind of macho role as Stallone and Schwarzenegger, even if he isn't as big.

...Again, I really have to bring up Ellen Ripley here. She was beyond crucial in breaking new ground for action movies. Not only was she an uncommon action hero, but she survived while a whole battlion of male, rugged, jacked marines fell around her. Her character is practically a slap in the face to Stallone.

...I watched B89 last night. I really don't think Keaton's role in any way interferes with the genre Stallone is talking about.
 
I think he's pointing out the trend for Hollywood to no longer demand gym meatheads for action roles. Not necessarily that plot and brains are a bigger part of action films, but that the stars do not tend to have the herculean forms of Arnuld and Stallone.

A couple of sidebars...

...Bruce Willis is not a 'proper actor'. He was a veritable nobody when he did Die Hard, and really hasn't become known due to his acting ability. Stallone at least has the original Rocky movie to prove he's a credible actor. Bruce Willis, in my opinion, fills the same kind of macho role as Stallone and Schwarzenegger, even if he isn't as big.

...Again, I really have to bring up Ellen Ripley here. She was beyond crucial in breaking new ground for action movies. Not only was she an uncommon action hero, but she survived while a whole battlion of male, rugged, jacked marines fell around her. Her character is practically a slap in the face to Stallone.

...I watched B89 last night. I really don't think Keaton's role in any way interferes with the genre Stallone is talking about.

Exactly, so for Stallone to jus target that film in particular is stupid. As if Batman jus went around blowing **** up and causing catastrophic mayhem that rained on Stallone's parade........smh
 
...Bruce Willis is not a 'proper actor'. He was a veritable nobody when he did Die Hard,

Prior to Die Hard, Bruce Willis was an Emmy Award-Winning actor on Moonlighting. He was in the tabloids for a supposed romance with co-star Cybil Sheppard. And when Die Hard came knocking, he got offered a ridiculous amount of money to star in the film.

The thing about Die Hard is that Bruce Willis, at the time, was known as a comedy actor. John McClane is written as pretty funny guy. He may be a badass, but he also makes you laugh. Die Hard is a borderline action-comedy and the same can be said about Lethal Weapon. Or what about Eddie Murphy in 48HRS and Beverly Hills Cop? Or Tom Cruise in Top Gun? Die Hard wasn't exactly groundbreaking stuff.

As for Aliens, most people see that as science-fiction. If you throw in Aliens then you gotta throw in Star Wars as well. You gotta include Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford.

Like I said, the real game-changer was Terminator 2: Judgement Day. Yes, it has a sci-fi concept but it takes place in modern times and has modern day action scenes. So, most people look at it as an action movie. The CGI was groundbreaking and changed the industry. When Jurassic Park came along in 1993 it was a new era in Hollywood. All of today's blockbuster movies owe everything to T2 and JP.
 
Stallone's comment is a bit ridiculous.
 
Stallone's comment is a bit ridiculous.

I agree, what got me is that it was so random, Rocky Balboa did fairly well, Rambo the same, out of the blue he criticizes Batman 89', gtfoh
 
Speaking of 80's action stars....whatever happened to Cynthia Rothrock? Whenever we mention 80's female action stars, Sigourney Weaver usually comes to mind, but hardly a mention of Mrs. Rothrock.
 
Speaking of 80's action stars....whatever happened to Cynthia Rothrock? Whenever we mention 80's female action stars, Sigourney Weaver usually comes to mind, but hardly a mention of Mrs. Rothrock.

She did the right thing after her film career....moved on with her life. Who knows, she may be a fight coordinator or something.
 
I agree, what got me is that it was so random, Rocky Balboa did fairly well, Rambo the same, out of the blue he criticizes Batman 89', gtfoh

That was a good movie and a fitting end to that character. It made up for the albatross that was Rocky V.
 
I don't think it was Batman per se, but something definitely did happen. I wonder if it was just the end of a cycle for a certain type of action film, like how Westerns died out in the 70s-80s to a large extent.

Action films haven't faded, though they have changed. After the end of the Cold War, there was no massive, easily identifiable enemy so gone was that threat. Perhaps there was no more need for musclebound, killing machines since the threat no longer seemed to necessitate it. The threats became more nebulous and action films changed to reflect that. I can see how Aliens, Lethal Weapon, and Die Hard punctured holes in 'traditional' action films, but I would throw in the Indiana Jones films and other Harrison Ford fare and some of the movies like Romancing the Stone that were like forerunners of the rom-com movies today. They showed a different type of action star and were profitable, setting the stage for the eventual decline of the old school action stars. Though thinking about it more, not all the action stars even during the 80s were musclebound. Chuck Norris had a pretty lean physique from what I can recall. As did guys like Michael Dudikoff from the American Ninja movies, though Norris at least had the required badassedness, with Dudikoff I can't remember.

The soldier was replaced by the cop, largely, as the action star of the 90s IMO, and you didn't need a he-man to play a cop. Also there has been a change in how masculinity has been viewed over the last 20 or 30 years and I wonder if that hasn't had an impact on what we accept as action stars today. Also, more became required of action stars than to have big muscles and well-timed quips. The action stars of the 90s: Wesley Snipes, Nicholas Cage, Keanu Reeves, Bruce Willis, Jet Li, Chow Yun Fat, Jackie Chan, etc. didn't have massive physiques but usually they were better actors, or in Chan's case, could pull off comedy and action more convincingly than Arnold or Sly. Even Seagal and Van Damme, who I would consider more in the Arnold and Sly mold, weren't as big as them physically.

For good or ill, the 90s opened the gates to all types of actors in action films and to some extent, the action genre got pushed to the straight to video market and there stopped being viable 'action' stars, and by that I mean actors whose bread and butter films are action films. Until today, you've got Will Smith, Jason Statham, and Vin Diesel and that's about it. Even the Rock, who I thought might be able to lead an action revival has largely been relegated to family friendly fare. Today, you've got the multitasking actors like Matt Damon, Christian Bale, Daniel Craig who can do action, drama, and maybe comedy. Or you have an actor like Denzel Washington, George Clooney, Russell Crowe, Mark Wahlberg, Leonardo DiCaprio, or Brad Pitt who sometimes will do an action role.

As other posters have pointed out, women have also become action stars following Sigorney Weaver's lead. I doubt a film like Salt could've been made in 1980 or maybe even 1990, and be considered a credible action film. Plus we've had stuff like La Femme Nikita/Point of No Return, Alias, the Underworld films, the Tomb Raider films, Buffy the Vampire Slayer show, Terminator 2 and the Sarah Connor Chronicles, and recently Covert Affairs, among a host of other shows and movies that show females just as tough as any male, without all the macho stuff from the old action films. I put Angelina Jolie up there with the modern action stars of the 21st century, alongside any guy. She has a solid action resume, Salt, Tomb Raider, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, and Wanted. Milla Jovovich should be added on the list as well for Resident Evil, Ultraviolet, and the Messenger. Uma Thurman with Kill Bill. Jennifer Garner, Michelle Rodriguez, Kate Beckinsale, Rhona Mitra, Zoe Saldana, Cameron Diaz, and soon to be Maggie Q among others are continuing to change the face of the modern action film.
 
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That was a good movie and a fitting end to that character. It made up for the albatross that was Rocky V.

Totally agree with you dude. Stallone was jus out of line to make comments about a movie that had little to nothing to do with the impact of action films at the time. If CGI was as prominent then as it is now, filmakers would have been all over it in the 80's. There were only small handful, and I mean small that had CGI in that point in time.
 
The other things I really wanna know is who Stallone thinks should've played Batman? Him? Ah-nuld? Ventura? Lundgren?

Bruce Wayne/Batman is a very complex and complicated character to cast. Yes, his size is important. Stallone should do himself a favor and read a Batman comic, because Batman makes he, Arnold and Lundgren look like pansies. Keaton was not cast because he was small, but he performed admireably inspite of this. Batman is an uncommon person in his own Universe. To find an actor that embodies every aspect; the size, the strength, the appearance, the intelligence, the emotional struggle...would be damn near impossible.

Had Stallone (or someone like him) been cast, sure he may have been size correct, but you may have lost other aspects of the character.

Is Stallone suggesting only big guys should be acting as heroes? This is the same man who wouldn't let anyone else play Rocky. If what he says is correct, and Keaton is responsible, then surely any big guy could've doubled for Stallone in Rocky...since ya'know...all big actors are interchangible.

It's more likely that there really aren't that many big guys period.
 
I don't think it was Batman per se, but something definitely did happen. I wonder if it was just the end of a cycle for a certain type of action film, like how Westerns died out in the 70s-80s to a large extent.

Action films haven't faded, though they have changed. After the end of the Cold War, there was no massive, easily identifiable enemy so gone was that threat. Perhaps there was no more need for musclebound, killing machines since the threat no longer seemed to necessitate it. The threats became more nebulous and action films changed to reflect that. I can see how Aliens, Lethal Weapon, and Die Hard punctured holes in 'traditional' action films, but I would throw in the Indiana Jones films and other Harrison Ford fare and some of the movies like Romancing the Stone that were like forerunners of the rom-com movies today. They showed a different type of action star and were profitable, setting the stage for the eventual decline of the old school action stars. Though thinking about it more, not all the action stars even during the 80s were musclebound. Chuck Norris had a pretty lean physique from what I can recall. As did guys like Michael Dudikoff from the American Ninja movies, though Norris at least had the required badassedness, with Dudikoff I can't remember.

The soldier was replaced by the cop, largely, as the action star of the 90s IMO, and you didn't need a he-man to play a cop. Also there has been a change in how masculinity has been viewed over the last 20 or 30 years and I wonder if that hasn't had an impact on what we accept as action stars today. Also, more became required of action stars than to have big muscles and well-timed quips. The action stars of the 90s: Wesley Snipes, Nicholas Cage, Keanu Reeves, Bruce Willis, Jet Li, Chow Yun Fat, Jackie Chan, etc. didn't have massive physiques but usually they were better actors, or in Chan's case, could pull off comedy and action more convincingly than Arnold or Sly. Even Seagal and Van Damme, who I would consider more in the Arnold and Sly mold, weren't as big as them physically.

For good or ill, the 90s opened the gates to all types of actors in action films and to some extent, the action genre got pushed to the straight to video market and there stopped being viable 'action' stars, and by that I mean actors whose bread and butter films are action films. Until today, you've got Will Smith, Jason Statham, and Vin Diesel and that's about it. Even the Rock, who I thought might be able to lead an action revival has largely been relegated to family friendly fare. Today, you've got the multitasking actors like Matt Damon, Christian Bale, Daniel Craig who can do action, drama, and maybe comedy. Or you have an actor like Denzel Washington, George Clooney, Russell Crowe, Mark Wahlberg, Leonardo DiCaprio, or Brad Pitt who sometimes will do an action role.

As other posters have pointed out, women have also become action stars following Sigorney Weaver's lead. I doubt a film like Salt could've been made in 1980 or maybe even 1990, and be considered a credible action film. Plus we've had stuff like La Femme Nikita/Point of No Return, Alias, the Underworld films, the Tomb Raider films, Buffy the Vampire Slayer show, Terminator 2 and the Sarah Connor Chronicles, and recently Covert Affairs, among a host of other shows and movies that show females just as tough as any male, without all the macho stuff from the old action films. I put Angelina Jolie up there with the modern action stars of the 21st century, alongside any guy. She has a solid action resume, Salt, Tomb Raider, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, and Wanted. Milla Jovovich should be added on the list as well for Resident Evil, Ultraviolet, and the Messenger. Uma Thurman with Kill Bill. Jennifer Garner, Michelle Rodriguez, Kate Beckinsale, Rhona Mitra, Zoe Saldana, Cameron Diaz, and soon to be Maggie Q among others are continuing to change the face of the modern action film.

Angelina Jolie has an okay resume....I mean Wanted and the Tomb Raider films were bad....and Cameron Diaz as an action star?.....them Charlie Angels films were bad too and cannot see her as an action hero...the rest are fine...Angie is okay just few bad movies but Diaz thats a big hell no.
 
^
Diaz has had at least the Charlie Angels films and now Knight and Day, so I've got to put her on the list. They don't all have to be successful films but she does have an action resume.
 
Oh poor Sylvester Stallone. :rolleyes:

The real reason: The 1980s were over. Ronald Reagan machoism and all that Cold War ******** was sunsetting. Though I would not disagree that the 1990s action movies were all about special effects for the most part, I wouldn't credit Tim Burton's Batman as the culprit. That was a gothic noir that was more of a throwback visually to the 1940s than films like The Matrix, Independence Day, Men In Black, etc. as I'm sure he is thinking about.

And in any case even the worst of these movies (Batman & Robin for example) follow the same stupid 1980s action movie formula. Beat a faceless goon, crack a one-liner that is it. Pop culture moves in waves, the musclebound meathead killing a bunch of Russians without a shirt on had passed. The last decade it was superheroes. But give me Tim Burton, Sam Raimi, Christopher Nolan or Bryan Singer action movies with "muscless" wimps any day over another Rambo movie.
 
P.S. The action stars that immediately replaced them?

...

Bruce Willis, Sigourney Weaver, Mel Gibson, Harrison Ford (he was more during the same era) and Michael Keaton (if you even want to count his two Batman movies).

And in the offset near future Will Smith, Keanu Reeves, Tom Cruise, Matt Damon, Samuel L. Jackson, Uma Thurman, Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie, Pierce Brosnan, Daniel Craig, Tobey Maguire, Christian Bale, Leonardo DiCaprio (if you count films like Blood Diamond and The Departed) and Robert Downey Jr.

Now some of these were very muscular people in their own rights (Will Smith, Brad Pitt, Gibson and Bale for example). Some of them were entirely aided by special effects (Maguire and Keaton). But other than Keanu Reeves, what do they all have in common?

They're good actors who have dramatic backgrounds. Maybe Stallone should ask about that. ;)

I jest, I jest.
 
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