Stargate SG-1/Atlantis/Universe

[LadyVader]

First let me say that I don't think anybody is right or wrong in this. What happened happened and I am simply arguing why I think that Young's decision is wrong. Obviously everybody is entitled to their opinion.

The point here was Telford told Young's wife that he was Cheating again, which he is not. No one will let someone get away with telling that sort of lie when you are trying to make things work with your Wife. Dreams do not mean anything, everyone has dreams, if you hold people responsible for there dreams everyone would be in trouble

Young's primary focus should be what happens on the ship, not on Earth. There is nothing he can do about Earth and his wife until he gets back to her and then he's free to work on his relationship all he wants. And while dreams do not hold you accountable, they do point out that he is still in fact attracted to TJ.

Young wanted everything to go by the book because if he did not almost everyone on the ship would have doubts about him and probably think he did do it. You can not be in command and have respect and expect people to follow your orders if they do not trust you and think you are a murderer.

What he did with Rush on the Planet is a whole separate issue. He did not murder him, just exiled him. In fact he probably wasn't going to leave him there until Rush flapped his mouth

Two entirely separate issues.

I don't regard them as being entirely different. Fact is that now the crew are in the position to find that he is in fact capable of murder, if you prove disloyal to him. Exiled-shmexiled. Even if it was just an exile
1. He is not in the position to make that decision by himself.
2. When you exile somebody and leave him to chance so to speak, you don't abandon him on a planet with absolutely no resources. That's what Young did. If you abandon a person on a planet with no means of surviving you are in fact, killing him. Let's not argue over semantics here. Yes, Rush will survive because he's a main character and probably will work out how to use the ship, but there's no doubt in my mind that Young left him there fully aware that he's condemning him.

I don't believe Young went down to the planet with the intent of leaving Rush there. I agree that he probably made that decision after Rush said that the two of them "will never be done". But that doesn't excuse the decision. It simply points out even more to me that Young's temper undermines his faculties and therefore makes him unfit for command.

And has proven and well as stated he would do everything to undermine Young's authority.

Fact is that Young is not an authority in science matters. To survive on Destiny you don't just need balls to make tough decisions. You need to understand the technology in order to use it for your benefit, and nobody is more suited for that than Rush. Let's not forget that Young came to Rush when the IOA and SGC were trying to use solar energy to power up the Stargate. It is through Rush's expertise that Young got them to back off. We don't know if the SGC's plan was going to be a succes or end with a disaster, but Young wasn't ready to take that chance and he NEEDED Rush.

Those kind of situations are going to arise again and again, and Young just dumped his best resource on that planet, thereby sabotaging everybody's chances to survive and get home.

 

[SsM]

The finale wasn't too bad.. I like it when they go onto other planets...

 

[carrrnuttt]

For anyone doubting Young's actions in regards to Rush, how long has Rush been pestering Young to allow him to sit someone down on the Ancient's chair?

It's not like Young was stopping Rush HIMSELF from sitting down, he just didn't want Rush hurting anyone else on that chair that, although Rush claimed to be "safe," he wouldn't risk sitting on himself.

For the sake of knowing what would happen when someone sits in the chair, Rush framed Young for murder, and manipulated someone into putting himself into a coma. Clearly, people aren't anything but tools for Rush to use for whatever scientific whim he happens to have. All that, combined with the fact that Rush is the reason that they're stuck on the Destiny, I'm suprised that Young didn't just shoot Rush, execution style.

He wasn't trying to punish Rush. He was trying to keep Rush from hurting the rest of his people without having to kill him.





Anyhow, who else thinks that Rush will have that alien ship flying eventually? I can see Rush becoming the Destiny crew's greatest enemy. If the stranded ship has FTL capabilities and a good star/galaxy map, or if he eventually finds one that has these, I can see Rush knowing the pattern Destiny is taking, and he'll lay in wait on planet that Destiny will head to, soon enough.

 

[Dr Lee]

I'm not too sure he will...there was a commetn by RC that makes me think the Aliens will pick him up first,,,,,, and i suspect that they are the same ones that appeared at the end of Air III

 

[LadyVader]

For anyone doubting Young's actions in regards to Rush, how long has Rush been pestering Young to allow him to sit someone down on the Ancient's chair?

It's not like Young was stopping Rush HIMSELF from sitting down, he just didn't want Rush hurting anyone else on that chair that, although Rush claimed to be "safe," he wouldn't risk sitting on himself.

For the sake of knowing what would happen when someone sits in the chair, Rush framed Young for murder, and manipulated someone into putting himself into a coma. Clearly, people aren't anything but tools for Rush to use for whatever scientific whim he happens to have. All that, combined with the fact that Rush is the reason that they're stuck on the Destiny, I'm suprised that Young didn't just shoot Rush, execution style.

He wasn't trying to punish Rush. He was trying to keep Rush from hurting the rest of his people without having to kill him.

Even if that was all true (we dont know if that particular scientist didn't just want to play the hero or if Rush somehow got to him) that doesn't change the fact that a. Rush is the best shot they have to understand Destiny's technology and b. he's still a human being and he still has rights.

 

[wiegeabo]

Now this is the type of argument Stargate deserves.

Not the "this show sucks" "this show rocks" back and forth that goes nowhere.

Rather, is the morally questionable actions of one of the characters right or wrong.

 

[RetroNaz]

Yeah, finally some good story we can all chew on.

 

[Superfreak]

they're both *****. That's what I say. Sure Rush manipulated the situation, but he didn't force 'Mr. Annoying' into the chair. Young on the other hand, stranded someone on a planet in a distant part of the universe, on purpose this time. That is just plain wrong, certainly worse than framing someone for murder.

I'm not impressed with these SG-Personel. They're quite unprofessional. Young is mental, Rush in mental, Telford is mental, Ray is impotent. I dunno, the leadership just seems a little weak... this episode really showed that. The underlings are a far more capable bunch of people.

Now here's a thought... what if all Rush has to do is dial the Destiny back (he must have some idea of the schedule)? He could step through the gate in the next episode, and go all Begby on Young

 

[RetroNaz]

they're both *****. That's what I say. Sure Rush manipulated the situation, but he didn't force 'Mr. Annoying' into the chair. Young on the other hand, stranded someone on a planet in a distant part of the universe, on purpose this time. That is just plain wrong, certainly worse than framing someone for murder.

I'm not impressed with these SG-Personel. They're quite unprofessional. Young is mental, Rush in mental, Telford is mental, Ray is impotent. I dunno, the leadership just seems a little weak... this episode really showed that. The underlings are a far more capable bunch of people.

Yeah, I agree

 

[wiegeabo]

But that's the point.

Telford, as much of an ass as he seems to be, is supposed to be in command. Young was resigning and didn't want command, but now he has no choice.

Greer, to be kind, is eccentric. Someone that unstable probably would be discharged.

Scott is young and inexperienced.

TJ seems the most stable, but she was also resigning, and now she's in over her head as medical officer.

The whole series is based on people dealing with situations they were never supposed to be in, and the mistakes they make dealing with it.

 

[Maximus One]

I would absolutely LOVE to see Rush go all Begby on Young

 

[RetroNaz]

Has it been established yet what Greer did to get Telford all worked up?

 

[Dr Lee]

He decked him.... why, not sure yet....

 

[RetroNaz]

lol Telford seems to be a bit of the whipping boy!

 

[Paradox1]

Leaving him on that planet was wrong man that is so messed up. Sure Rush was a duche bag who framed him for murder but he's a *****e bag you need and you just don't strand people on what seems to be a deserted planet.

 

[wiegeabo]

Maybe we're reading too much into it. There's a very practical reason why Young left Rush behind.

There was no way he could have carried Rush and gotten back to the Stargate in time.

I mean, it closed about two seconds behind him. So, rather than both of them being stuck there, he left Rush behind. I mean, he didn't even take any equipment back with him. Although he may have left the equipment and weapons behind for Rush because a part of him felt guilty. Although I'm don't doubt that another part of him was relieved he wouldn't have to look over his shoulder every second Rush was on board, and wouldn't need to fight him over every decision.

 

[wiegeabo]

Maybe we're reading too much into it. There's a very practical reason why Young left Rush behind.

There was no way he could have carried Rush and gotten back to the Stargate in time.

It literally closed about two seconds behind him. So, rather than both of them being stuck there, he left Rush behind. I mean, he didn't even take any equipment back with him. Although he may have left the equipment and weapons behind for Rush because a part of him felt guilty. And I don't doubt that another part of him was relieved he wouldn't have to look over his shoulder every second Rush was on board, and wouldn't need to fight him over every decision.

 

[C. Lee]

Rush has lied to everyone repeatedly.

Rush puts his own interest in science above the welfare or wants of everyone else.

Rush Was told the chair would hurt whoever sat in it...he said it wouldn't...Young told him to sit in it then, he refused....Rush coericed someone else to do it....and they got hurt.

Rush tried to frame the commander of the group for murder.


.......and some people are questioning the act of stranding him on the planet?

 

[RetroNaz]

Well it's better than killing the guy, isn't it?

 

[Paradox1]

Rush has done some very questionable acts but none of them would be worthy of a death sentence or banishment. My other point who is Young to be judge, jury and executioner. Rush's punishment should of been handled by a jury or council not one man. That is whats wrong with it, if one person's freedom are pissed on everybody is affected.

 

[wiegeabo]

That would be great if the situation on Destiny was a democracy. But it's not. And the military command structure is well suited to survival situations like this one where the good of the whole outweighs the good of the individual.

 

[LadyVader]

Yes but the military are not suited to lead in a tehnologically hostile environment. They NEED scientists. If the Destiny has a malfunction in the future, the military can't hold the ship and gun point and force it to work.

I see it like this. Rush and Young are BOTH vital to the survival of the Destiny crew. Young for his leadership and Rush for his technical expertise. By abandoning Rush on that planet Young not only commited murder but he lowered everybody's chances to get home.

 

[Superfreak]

But that's the point.

Telford, as much of an ass as he seems to be, is supposed to be in command. Young was resigning and didn't want command, but now he has no choice.

Greer, to be kind, is eccentric. Someone that unstable probably would be discharged.

Scott is young and inexperienced.

TJ seems the most stable, but she was also resigning, and now she's in over her head as medical officer.

The whole series is based on people dealing with situations they were never supposed to be in, and the mistakes they make dealing with it.

all I'm saying is that the SGC is a quasi military institution. It has been sending people off planet for a decade. Yes these are the wrong people, in the wrong place. That doesn't change the fact that these SG personel are not anywhere near qualified as those in our other shows. Everymember of this group is part of the SGC(cept for eli and whatsherface?), they should be sad that they're trapped on this ship, but they should also be professional enough to buckle down, and sort out the problems on the ship.

This whole situation, although it created an intersting episode (prolly the most interesting since the premier), it is a bit ridiculous.

The concept for this show would work a lot better for me, if none of the people on the ship were 'sg personel'... ie, a bunch of blank characters who know nothing about stargates, or life off of earth. Then this 'Space Madness' would make a little more sense to me.

 

[wiegeabo]

Except that in the first two series, all we ever saw were the best of the best. And they were all still far from perfect. We saw soldiers and scientists specifically selected to go into the most dangerous situations and explore the unknown.

In the case of Icarus base, the personnel, to put it bluntly, didn't have to be held to the same standards. They were supposed to be on a secret base, safe from the fighting. And it was a low priority mission. The Icarus soldiers were essential babysitters for the scientists (whereas on Atlantis, everyone had been selected knowing they could be cut off from Earth for years, and they prepared themselves and their equipment/supplies accordingly).

So what we're seeing are the second stringers called up to the big leagues, if you'll excuse the slightly mixed metaphor. They're in a situation they never prepared for, and that many of them can't psychologically take (they wouldn't have been selected for the Atlantis expedition even if they had volunteered).

 

[C. Lee]

Yes but the military are not suited to lead in a tehnologically hostile environment. They NEED scientists. If the Destiny has a malfunction in the future, the military can't hold the ship and gun point and force it to work.

I see it like this. Rush and Young are BOTH vital to the survival of the Destiny crew. Young for his leadership and Rush for his technical expertise. By abandoning Rush on that planet Young not only commited murder but he lowered everybody's chances to get home.

They don't NEED a scientist that will lie about data and knowlege, put others at risk of death for the fun of it, and frame others for murder (which is basicly attempted murder itself)....you can't trust a guy like that among a civil populace and they don't have enough resources to keep him prisoner.