First Avenger suggestion that's going to get my lynched

[mrsjohnnystorm]

Also, Steroids are present in many medication. Steroids is actually the primary ingredient in Asthma inhalers -- I'm sure CM Punk wouldn't turn on someone who has a serious case of Asthma would he?

But all good points there jacross, and I agree, steroids are only bad if you join a competition and take steroids (because then you have a advantage over everyone else, and totally ruins the sample size).

 

[NEXUS 6]

Okay I didn't sort through all three pages, but could you imagine that guy actually trying to beat up Captain America. That fight would last all of two and a half seconds.

 

[mrsjohnnystorm]

Well before CM Punk fights Captain America, I'll at least want see him try to beat the existing Captain America, Randy Couture. I highly doubt CM Punk would last a round in the ring with Randy.

 

[Keyser Soze]

First, I'll preface by saying I don't agree at all with 3atman's assertion that Captain America is no better than an athlete taking steroids. Yes, he has superthuman strength, speed, and endurance. But it's the spirit and the heart of Captain America that sets him apart so many other guys in the Marvel Universe who are stronger or faster. Being the ultimate athlete is only one small part of the Cap equation. Steve Rogers was Captain America long before he put on the mask, and long before he even got his powers.

But that said, a lot of folk here have been total jerks about disagreeing. Attacking 3atman, attacking his thread, attacking CM Punk, and attacking pro wrestling and pro wrestling fans. What, because 3atman was asking you to think? 3atman has a point - comic books and wrestling actually have a lot in common, in that both are marginalised forms of entertainment, bastard artforms, if you will. Both wrestling and superheroes are about good VS evil on a larger-than-life, highly stylised scale, complete with colorful characters and costumes. And 3atman is right. In the 90s, when Batman and Robin killed the superhero movie and Marvel was going bankrupt, the trendy thing to watch on TV was pro wrestling. Now in the 00s, wrestling is a laughing stock and comic book movies are big money. Wrestling fans and comic fans alike get bashed by enough people without them starting to bash each other.

As for CM Punk himself, he's being unfairly villified here. It's not like he was all like "I hate Captain America!" In the interview, he talked about how much he loves Ed Brubaker's Captain America. And in the context of the question, he was talking about, if he was a comic book supervillain, who would he best matches against, and he was saying hypothetically, it might be interesting to have a straight edge bad guy call out Captain America as a steroid abuser.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

The difference between wrestling and comic books is that comic books have actual good stories you can get emotionally invested in. Same with the characters.

Pro wrestling is just soap opera melodrama crap on steroids.

I'm not saying people can't like it or are lesser people for liking it.

But 3atman's argument is heavily flawed. Undeniable.

There is a difference between a wrestler taking roids just to look good and be strong.

And a guy like Steve Rogers taking roids to become the ultimate soldier and save lives and defeat genuine bad guys and not pantomime villains.

 

[Keyser Soze]

The difference between wrestling and comic books is that comic books have actual good stories you can get emotionally invested in. Same with the characters.

Pro wrestling is just soap opera melodrama crap on steroids.

I'm not saying people can't like it or are lesser people for liking it.

But 3atman's argument is heavily flawed. Undeniable.

There is a difference between a wrestler taking roids just to look good and be strong.

And a guy like Steve Rogers taking roids to become the ultimate soldier and save lives and defeat genuine bad guys and not pantomime villains.

Oh, indeed, much of pro wrestling these days is crap. But in it's time, pro wrestling too has had great stories and made for enthralling television. Much like there were lengthy periods where much of what was going on in mainstream comics at least was mind-meltingly awful, but now there's a whole lot of quality storytelling in place.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Oh, indeed, much of pro wrestling these days is crap. But in it's time, pro wrestling too has had great stories and made for enthralling television. Much like there were lengthy periods where much of what was going on in mainstream comics at least was mind-meltingly awful, but now there's a whole lot of quality storytelling in place.

For example, the Attitude Era

Anyway, this argument about Captain America and comparing the SSS to steroids is severly flawed and imo just plain stupid.

 

[jacross]

As for CM Punk himself, he's being unfairly villified here. It's not like he was all like "I hate Captain America!" In the interview, he talked about how much he loves Ed Brubaker's Captain America. And in the context of the question, he was talking about, if he was a comic book supervillain, who would he best matches against, and he was saying hypothetically, it might be interesting to have a straight edge bad guy call out Captain America as a steroid abuser.

I retract the negative comments I made about CM Punk. I actually find him to be a compelling character.

For example, the Attitude Era

That was a brilliant couple of years. WWE has had some good times since then but nothing that has reached the Attitude era.

 

[weezerspider]

I think its a bit of a stretch to think CA:TFA is going to be a "pro-roids" film or something. This kinda thing is in movies all of the time. Plus, he isn't cheating in a sport, he's doing it to help the world. He wants to serve his country and fight Nazis. I don't think you would complain if a firefighter took a non-harmful drug(not roids cuz it can mess you up) to help save more people's lives. He's doing it for good reason. If he's cheating anything, its death.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I think it's more like taking a magic potion than taking steroids.

 

[That-Guy]

"He's been 'roiding for years and so have his peers, he's Captain America!"

 

[Webhead2006]

totally on the wrestling front the attitude era was my fav time for wwf. Nowadays its just far to censored and some storylines and all that havent been that great. i still watch it today to keep up on wrestlers i like that are still around.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I stopped watching September of last year. From what I heard, they took out chairshots to the head along with other things. WTF!

 

[SpiderByte]

Lock, please?

 

[roach]

Lock, please?

Nooooo he's no longer John Locke he's the smoke monster

 

[jimbo 007]

I'm willing to bet when the movie is released there will be alot of people in the media compairing the SSS to steroids. There'll more than likely even be people complaining that the movie and the SSS will promote steroid use to young kids. I just hope that the cast and crew are ready for these questions so they can shut them down.

And really the SSS is more than just an injection of drugs. You can't forget about the Vita-Rays. There's no steroid that I know of that requires a dose of radiation. So in my opinion the SSS is much more than just a steroid.

 

[roach]

no one had issues in TIH

 

[3atman]

All you guys saying that Cap is better than an athlete taking roids because he's doing it for his country I disagree with. A while back, someone said they'd be ok with me taking HGH and roids and then go fight in Iraq as opposed to play for the Atlanta Braves.

HOWEVER. I personally think it's more noble to take performance enhancers to ensure that your family NEVER has to work again (as in, bigger contracts) than doing the physical bidding for politicians. If Cap REALLY wanted to help America, he'd have worked his arse off and became President and diplomatically solved all our problems.

No, I don't have a problem with Hulk, that was an accident.

BTW I'm really not all that opposed to roid use. If MLB players wanna use them or NFL players wanna use them I say use them. Hitting a home run you otherwise wouldn't have hit is no different than using cortisone (another roid) to play when you otherwise wouldn't have. Or Tiger Woods getting Lasik surgery to make his vision better than 20/20 in a sport where depth perception is key. ALL I'm saying at this point is that Captain America really IS the American Hero of today. He's just like Schwartzenegger, Stallone, all the Pro wrestlers, MMA fighters, Boxers, olympians, and other pro athletes who have used enhancers. He really is the most American of super heroes. He's bigger, badder, (not natural) and he'll kick your ass. He is Captain America.

 

[roach]

it was an accident when the stuck needles into Blonsky???

 

[Compi716]

All you guys saying that Cap is better than an athlete taking roids because he's doing it for his country I disagree with. A while back, someone said they'd be ok with me taking HGH and roids and then go fight in Iraq as opposed to play for the Atlanta Braves.

HOWEVER. I personally think it's more noble to take performance enhancers to ensure that your family NEVER has to work again (as in, bigger contracts) than doing the physical bidding for politicians. If Cap REALLY wanted to help America, he'd have worked his arse off and became President and diplomatically solved all our problems.

No, I don't have a problem with Hulk, that was an accident.

BTW I'm really not all that opposed to roid use. If MLB players wanna use them or NFL players wanna use them I say use them. Hitting a home run you otherwise wouldn't have hit is no different than using cortisone (another roid) to play when you otherwise wouldn't have. Or Tiger Woods getting Lasik surgery to make his vision better than 20/20 in a sport where depth perception is key. ALL I'm saying at this point is that Captain America really IS the American Hero of today. He's just like Schwartzenegger, Stallone, all the Pro wrestlers, MMA fighters, Boxers, olympians, and other pro athletes who have used enhancers. He really is the most American of super heroes. He's bigger, badder, (not natural) and he'll kick your ass. He is Captain America.

Okay, I've sat out this discussion long enough.

To say, to even suggest that Cap's origin be changed to something more "achievable" is ridiculous. Captain America is a product of science. He's a man so dedicated to fighting for what he believes in that he was willing to do anything necessary.

Cap also represents the boyhood dream. We all want to be heroes, and Steve Rogers found a way how. He "magically" became a super-being overnight, and that's what makes him special. Yes, he took a steroid. So freaking what? He wouldn't be Captain America otherwise.

Batman trains. Iron Man builds things. Captain America was a transformation. That's what makes him unique.

 

[Gilpesh]

HOWEVER. I personally think it's more noble to take performance enhancers to ensure that your family NEVER has to work again (as in, bigger contracts) than doing the physical bidding for politicians. If Cap REALLY wanted to help America, he'd have worked his arse off and became President and diplomatically solved all our problems.

Someone needs to loosen the straps on their helmet.

You're saying that some roidhead baseball player is better than Cap? Yeah. My first comment stands. Especially as you think what Cap is doing is 'physical bidding for politicians'... so were you not allowed to read comics during the past decade where Cap FOUGHT THE GOVERNMENT because the government was turning their back on what makes America, America.

 

[3atman]

I don't want to change the origin. I just would like someone else besides me to realize that Captain America is just like every other American hero. Enhanced.

And please, for the love of God, stop saying "well in a fight CM PUnk wouldn't beat Randy Couture" because he's a pro wrestler, not trained to fight, trained to get his ass beat and not die. Also stop "I'd like to see him fight Captain America" they're both fictional characters, the winner would be whoever is writing/booking.

No, I admit, I haven't read a lot of Captain comics, I need to. I'm not saying cap is a bad guy, just saying, he is Arnodl Schwartzenegger, he is a sports star, he is a typical American hero.

 

[3atman]

The difference between wrestling and comic books is that comic books have actual good stories you can get emotionally invested in. Same with the characters.

Pro wrestling is just soap opera melodrama crap on steroids.

I'm not saying people can't like it or are lesser people for liking it.

But 3atman's argument is heavily flawed. Undeniable.

There is a difference between a wrestler taking roids just to look good and be strong.

And a guy like Steve Rogers taking roids to become the ultimate soldier and save lives and defeat genuine bad guys and not pantomime villains.

LOL GENUINE BAD GUYS. So....people drawn are "real villains" but guys like the Iron Shiek who people tried to fight (in real life) because of a character he played is less real of a villain? It's ALL FAKE. Comic books, pro wrestling, it's all larger than life fake stories. Everything you listed is OPINION "the difference is comics actually tell good stories" that's an OPINION. What I say is FACTS. FACT, comic books are not real, Captain America is not real, just like CM Punk doesn't really hate Undertaker or rey Mysterio (the bumps really do hurt, trust me, I was in a hospital for a bump and nearly died, but that's another story). They both have their great stories and their awful stories. Both are misjudged by some and overrated by others. Comic books and pro wrestling are very VERY similar. Watch Lucha Libre for the imagery similarities, puroresu (Japanese) for the action similarities, and American mainstream wrestling for some story similarties.

You guys are adding too much opinion to your argument and it's hilarious. I have used facts. FACT, Steve is enhanced, his motives being good or bad, better or worse is OPINION. FACT, schwartzenegger and baseball players, football players, other athletes and action heroes ALSO are enhanced. If that's worse or better than Cap is opinion. I'm just drawing the similarities.

Cap also represents the boyhood dream. We all want to be heroes, and Steve Rogers found a way how. He "magically" became a super-being overnight, and that's what makes him special. Yes, he took a steroid. So freaking what? He wouldn't be Captain America otherwise.

Thank you, you get it. You understand that Cap is enhanced and it isn't a big deal, it just makes him that much more American. Doing whatever it takes to be the best and what's necessary.

 

[esloan]

Thank you, you get it. You understand that Cap is enhanced and it isn't a big deal, it just makes him that much more American. Doing whatever it takes to be the best and what's necessary.

I think you, and many others in this thread, are missing the single thing that differentiates Captain America and the Super Soldier Serum from an athlete and steroids. Quite simply; side effects.

Steroids are not banned simply because they give a competitive edge. They are banned because they are dangerous. They cause a myriad of health problems, many fatal, as well as a number of psychological effects.

The Super Soldier Serum is not analogous to steroids. Matter of fact, a close analogy would be the "knock-off" Super Serum that Blonsky took in The Incredible Hulk. It made him powerful but had psychological side effects.

The Super Soldier Serum formula that Cap took had no side effects. It was almost singular in that fact. All the other variants had many harmful side-effects, which was one of the reasons the Super Soldier program was shut down. The original scientist who perfected the formula was shot and killed and, unfortunately, had most of the process of the serum's creation devoted only to memory. Thus the secret of its creation was lost.

Back on point, this is what makes Cap's serum different from steroids, over and above the differences in Cap's noble motivations and an athlete's monetary motivations. The lack of harmful side-effects are what make the Super Soldier Serum a positive thing and not a negative one.

If there existed a Serum like this, it would be encouraged and not banned like steroids. It would be a positive thing and not frowned upon. However, no such serum exists and steroids is a poor, poor substitute. t:

 

[Bubonic]

doublepost