Superman & Lois Original Discussion Thread

[Fincher]

True. The only other Superman I could see being in the scene is Dean Cain. But I feel like we should have been introduced to him in Crisis already. I mean, who else besides Dean Cain or Tom Welling be the mysterious third Superman? Henry Cavill? Tim Daly? Haha.

Nicholas Cage. He'll save them from a giant spider.

 

[Karelia]

I feel like Henry Cavill would be more likely than them. People would be confused by Gerard playing him again. I'm not sure what the reaction would be to Nicolas Cage playing him, that would be interesting haha.

 

[herolee10]

Still holding out a bit of hope that Wellings one of the three Supermen sharing a scene together in Crisis. It makes sense from a story stand point. We have been introduced to Tom Welling and Brandon Routh in Crisis. It could still end up being someone else, but idk.

Did anyone else noticed how Tom acted like Jonathan Kent? From the facial expressions to his line delivery. I dug that a lot.

Someone said that Greg may have misquoted himself and was actually referring about there being three kryptonians (F. Superman, KC Superman, and Kara).

 

[Karelia]

herolee10]Someone said that Greg may have misquoted himself and was actually referring about there being three kryptonians (F. Superman, KC Superman, and Kara).

Always possible. He said he had just watched all of Crisis during that interview. But people have brain farts. He says it toward the end of the interview:

 

[vantheman77]

Someone said that Greg may have misquoted himself and was actually referring about there being three kryptonians (F. Superman, KC Superman, and Kara).

That was me. The Flash saw Superman, Supergirl, and KC Superman together. That's probably the only scene with all three there.

 

[herolee10]

You know, I'm curious if the producers and the folks at the CW have been paying attention on how much love Brandon has been receiving for his relatively short return to the Superman role. I mean I really doubt you'll find much, if any, comments where people have said that they still prefer Tyler over Brandon.

Eh, it's too bad that the CW can't do what the Director for "Back to the Future" did and just change one of their leads before they start filming the pilot. I mean going forward with Tyler when you know there's a better choice that's available out there is unwise. And they could always make some B.S. excuse on why Earth 38's Superman looks different.

 

[flickchick85]

Brandon's receiving no more love than Tyler got when he first appeared. This narrative you're painting that this series is some sort of colossal mistake is bogus. Tyler's a very likable Supes that has been well-received by plenty of viewers and critics. He hasn't been given anything good to do in Crisis (yet), but that's hardly the death knell for his take on the character you're pretending it is. Routh had his time as Supes. This was a nice throwback for him to get to do for both himself and his fans, but it's a novelty. This show will be Tyler's time to shine as Supes. They ain't changing the lead, and you can watch or not. But plenty of us enjoy his Supes and look forward to watching.

 

[herolee10]

Brandon's receiving no more love than Tyler got when he first appeared. This narrative you're painting that this series is some sort of colossal mistake is bogus. Tyler's a very likable Supes that has been well-received by plenty of viewers and critics. He hasn't been given anything good to do in Crisis (yet), but that's hardly the death knell for his take on the character you're pretending it is. Routh had his time as Supes. This was a nice throwback for him to get to do for his fans, but it's a novelty. This show will be Tyler's time to shine as Supes. They ain't changing the lead, and you can watch or not. But plenty of us enjoy his Supes and look forward to watching.

Really because I think you'll find a lot of people clamoring on how Brandon is the better Superman when compared to Tyler, which is ironic considering the fact that Tyler was compared to Henry and listed as the better Superman after BvS. Plus, you have several cast members from the Arrowverse lamenting on how awesome it felt seeing BR in the suit and how he really made the character come to life from his looks alone. I don't recall reading any of them giving Tyler that same feedback.

And of course, I don't see this happening at all. Just a bittersweet feeling for me and others.There's no denying that Tyler was well received in his first two episodes on Supergirl. However, it seems as though that reception has waned with every new episode that he appeared in since (notably due to the writing and having to stay under Supergirl's shadow because of him being a special guest star only).

But we're now in Crisis on Infinite Earths, which is supposed to be like the Arrowverse's BIGGEST crossover. The fact that they haven't given him anything good to to do in the last three episodes, along with how he's been more of an afterthought, and has been lost in everyone else's shadow... I don't see how that isn't a bad thing for him as he preps for his new show. I actually wonder if the producers even knew that they were going to give him a show when they were filming and writing the crossover since this is not how you prep a character as they are heading into their own show. Last year's Elseworld's treatment of Batwoman is how they set someone up for their own series.

You know, the funny thing is that I feel like Elizabeth has really shined through in this year's crossover when compared to last year's Elseworlds. When I first saw Elizabeth making her debut as Lois, I was somewhat indifferent to her. But after the last three episodes, she's definitely won me over as her own Lois.

 

[herolee10]

Always possible. He said he had just watched all of Crisis during that interview. But people have brain farts. He says it toward the end of the interview:

I know people can have brain farts from time to time but how do you mistake Three Kryptonians being for Three Superman?

 

[flickchick85]

Really because I think you'll find a lot of people clamoring on how Brandon is the better Superman when compared to Tyler, which is ironic considering the fact that Tyler was compared to Henry and listed as the better Superman after BvS. Plus, you have several cast members from the Arrowverse lamenting on how awesome it felt seeing BR in the suit and how he really made the character come to life from his looks alone. I don't recall reading any of them giving Tyler that same feedback.

And of course, I don't see this happening at all. Just a bittersweet feeling for me and others.There's no denying that Tyler was well received in his first two episodes on Supergirl. However, it seems as though that reception has waned with every new episode that he appeared in since (notably due to the writing and having to stay under Supergirl's shadow because of him being a special guest star only).

But we're now in Crisis on Infinite Earths, which is supposed to be like the Arrowverse's BIGGEST crossover. The fact that they haven't given him anything good to to do in the last three episodes, along with how he's been more of an afterthought, and has been lost in everyone else's shadow... I don't see how that isn't a bad thing for him as he preps for his new show. I actually wonder if the producers even knew that they were going to give him a show when they were filming and writing the crossover since this is not how you prep a character as they are heading into their own show. Last year's Elseworld's treatment of Batwoman is how they set someone up for their own series.

You know, the funny thing is that I feel like Elizabeth has really shined through in this year's crossover when compared to last year's Elseworlds. When I first saw Elizabeth making her debut as Lois, I was somewhat indifferent to her. But after the last three episodes, she's definitely won me over as her own Lois.

Brandon's KC Supes is the shiny new toy who was WRITTEN to stand out over Tyler. So of course his appearance here is better received. Tyler's Supes has been terribly handled by Marc Guggenheim here - no shocker there, as he's handled every element from Supergirl equally poorly in the other crossovers. I don't know why you're not getting that. But yes, when Tyler first made his debut, there were plenty of Arrowverse regulars raving about him, as well as critics, as well as viewers. He and his show, when he's finally allowed back in the spotlight, will be just fine.

 

[herolee10]

Tyler's Supes has been terribly handled by Marc Guggenheim here - no shocker there, as he's handled every element from Supergirl equally poorly in the other crossovers.

But yes, when Tyler first made his debut, there were plenty of Arrowverse regulars raving about him, as well as critics, as well as viewers. He and his show, when he's finally allowed back in the spotlight, will be just fine.

Question, who are these regulars that you're talking about? I don't recall seeing any interviews from Stephen or Grant saying that Tyler was great as Superman. Heck, I can't recall reading Melissa saying anything (not that any of them are obligated to of course).

Well I love being proven wrong. Even when he gets his own show, I will only believe that he has gotten back his mojo once he's treated as Kara's (and everyone else's) equal. In the past, I thought having your own show meant that you would automatically be given some weight to throw around when in the presence of the other stars. However, Legends has proven otherwise for me since the only character that benefited from that show was Kara.lol

Plus, Kara and company are fiercely protected by Marc and Greg. I don't know if they'll allow Superman to share in her spotlight when they've spent several years investing in her character to make her into the bigger icon right now.

 

[Pennywise]

Always possible. He said he had just watched all of Crisis during that interview. But people have brain farts. He says it toward the end of the interview:

Still holding out for this moment in Part 4 or 5.

 

[herolee10]

Still holding out for this moment in Part 4 or 5.

I am more likely to become S.H.H forum user of the year than that happening.

 

[flickchick85]

Question, who are these regulars that you're talking about? I don't recall seeing any interviews from Stephen or Grant saying that Tyler was great as Superman. Heck, I can't recall reading Melissa saying anything (not that any of them are obligated to of course).

Well I love being proven wrong. Even when he gets his own show, I will only believe that he has gotten back his mojo once he's treated as Kara's (and everyone else's) equal. In the past, I thought having your own show meant that you would automatically be given some weight to throw around when in the presence of the other stars. However, Legends has proven otherwise for me since the only character that benefited from that show was Kara.lol

Plus, Kara and company are fiercely protected by Marc and Greg. I don't know if they'll allow Superman to share in her spotlight when they've spent several years investing in her character to make her into the bigger icon right now.

I'm not about to go back and research for your sake as it was 3 years ago now and I ain't got time for that, but while there weren't any big EW interviews because it wasn't a major crossover promo (CW has to pay for that ****), I specifically remember Grant geeking out about him on Twitter or Insta or something (and someone else commenting about how much Grant was geeking out), as well as Chyler Leigh, and though he didn't meet him on set 'til much later, I remember Stephen Amell being very complimentary towards his Supes too. And Melissa has nothing but praise for him every chance she gets. But you're gonna believe the narrative you want, so I'm not gonna waste any more effort trying to sway you. Suffice it to say, we could not disagree more on the prospects of this show.

 

[vantheman77]

I agree that both Brandon Routh and Tom Welling had their time as Supermen as it’s now Tyler Hoechlin’s time. One thing bothered me was that we didn’t have a passing of the Superman torch moment.

 

[DCnightwing23]

Just wanted to toss my two cents in the ring:

Don't agree with the decision to make a Superman and Lois show w/ Hoechlin in the lead, or anyone in the lead at this point. Time and time again the writers have made it abundantly clear that Supergirl is superior to Superman in this CW universe:

 

[batdude]

Brandon's KC Supes is the shiny new toy who was WRITTEN to stand out over Tyler. So of course his appearance here is better received. Tyler's Supes has been terribly handled by Marc Guggenheim here - no shocker there, as he's handled every element from Supergirl equally poorly in the other crossovers. I don't know why you're not getting that. But yes, when Tyler first made his debut, there were plenty of Arrowverse regulars raving about him, as well as critics, as well as viewers. He and his show, when he's finally allowed back in the spotlight, will be just fine.

Well, Tyler probably got upstaged by Brandon and Tom, but I think it's fair to point out here that neither the Supergirl appearances before this or this new spinoff will be written by Guggenheim. I think the fair thing to do is to not give up yet.

 

[herolee10]

Well, Tyler probably got upstaged by Brandon and Tom, but I think it's fair to point out here that neither the Supergirl appearances before this or this new spinoff will be written by Guggenheim. I think the fair thing to do is to not give up yet.

Yeah, but what happens when he's brought back for another crossover again? Does that mean that we have to see Superman served right back up to the other heroes so that they can look good at his expense? Having your own show doesn't necessarily protect you from that.

 

[batdude]

No, it doesn't but it is Guugenheim's fault. I just think there should be at least One scene in this with a major confrontation between Tyler's Supes and Lex if they are actually doing this spinoff!

 

[flickchick85]

Yeah, but what happens when he's brought back for another crossover again? Does that mean that we have to see Superman served right back up to the other heroes so that they can look good at his expense? Having your own show doesn't necessarily protect you from that.

Outside of Crisis, the crossovers generally have zero effect on the continuities of all the individual shows (they usually just put their ongoing plots on "pause" for them), so if Guggenheim continues to run them (and I actually doubt he will now that Arrow will be done and that's the main reason he was always in charge) and they continue to suck at portraying Supes, they are easily skipped. I know a lot of Supergirl fans already do that after how crappily she's been portrayed in them in the past.

 

[herolee10]

Outside of Crisis, the crossovers generally have zero effect on the continuities of all the individual shows (they usually just put their ongoing plots on "pause" for them), so if Guggenheim continues to run them (and I actually doubt he will now that Arrow will be done and that's the main reason he was always in charge) and they continue to suck at portraying Supes, they are easily skipped. I know a lot of Supergirl fans already do that after how crappily she's been portrayed in them in the past.

Honestly, I'm curious...what issues do Supergirl's fans have with how she was used in previous crossovers?

I mean she's been established as being the Arrowverse's Trinity alongside Green Arrow and the Flash. She's also been established as the powerhouse of the group during crossovers, often used to help turn the tide during the grand finale.

I know that she wasn't used that much during Arrow's portion of the Invasion crossover. However, she wasn't portrayed badly either. And yeah she was locked up for most of last year's Elseworlds crossover. But she rescued Superman from getting beaten up by Doctor Destiny and helped slow down time for Oliver to make the final blow. Plus, she was constantly referred to as being a hero that could inspire people and that it was important for her live.

 

[famicommander]

Just wanted to toss my two cents in the ring:

Don't agree with the decision to make a Superman and Lois show w/ Hoechlin in the lead, or anyone in the lead at this point. Time and time again the writers have made it abundantly clear that Supergirl is superior to Superman in this CW universe:

Why does Supergirl being stronger mean Superman isn't worthy of his own show?

In some comics continuities, Supergirl is indeed stronger because, having been raised primarily under a red sun, the yellow sunlight on earth has a stronger effect or her than Clark, who was raised on earth.

Supergirl and Flash are essentially gods compared to the rest of the Arrowverse lead characters. So does that mean they shouldn't even bother with Arrow, Legends, Black Lightning, or Batwoman?

 

[KillerMcQueen]

I do think they maybe went a bit too far in the past with it, but in terms of Superman's character, the primary takeaway from those scenes should be how supportive, encouraging, and proud Superman is of his cousin, they go a little too far to rub in Kara being more powerful, but they show Tyler's Superman to be very humble, kind, and approachable, he seems more like a real person than any other live action Superman. I don't care if Kara's a little more powerful, Tyler's Superman makes me a very happy Superman fan in those scenes.

 

[herolee10]

I do think they maybe went a bit too far in the past with it, but in terms of Superman's character, the primary takeaway from those scenes should be how supportive, encouraging, and proud Superman is of his cousin, they go a little too far to rub in Kara being more powerful, but they show Tyler's Superman to be very humble, kind, and approachable, he seems more like a real person than any other live action Superman. I don't care if Kara's a little more powerful, Tyler's Superman makes me a very happy Superman fan in those scenes.

Honestly, despite what some insecure fans may feel regarding the matter, I have no problem with Kara being slightly stronger than Superman. But like you said, it's their constant reminder of that fact that has proven annoying at times.

And yeah, Superman is supposed to be very humble and supportive. However, he is also supposed to be a natural leader and someone that inspires other heroes as well. These latter traits have been sorely absent from Tyler's Superman during his involvement with the rest of the Arrowverse (Yes, I know. It's all Marc's fault).

My point is that people want to see a Superman who other heroes look up to as well. It would be like having Steve Rogers/Captain America that no one really looked up to and where he constantly told people that they're better than him. In the last two crossovers (Elseworlds and COIE), Superman comes out looking like a rookie than a veteran of 10 years who can inspire people.

 

[vantheman77]

I don't believe that Superman having a child with Lois was his quintessential moment in the Crisis.