Discussion in 'Misc. Superman Films' started by Kevin Roegele, Sep 4, 2005.
Its really interesting. I would of loved to see what it could of been like. Different definitely.
Proof That Superman Lives Would Have Made Batman & Robin Look Like The Dark Knight
That Article is silly..i read through it.....If people remember correctly Cage and Burton where Top players back in the day. I wanted Cage to be superman...he was one of my fav actors (Rock, Con Air....) Dont get me wrong they both have made some really stupid movies in the past 5 years (more cage then burton) but with the right script and they are amazing.
The stuff the writer picked on, was elements that work in the world of superman (he is no batman where everything needs to be real)....sure some of the dialogue sounds stupid but its the product of its time. Brianiac being created on Krypton, the Animated Series made that work and it was great.
Its like you can take David Goyer's scripts and realize that they are really bad but if a good director picks it up, they can make it work (batman begins, blade 2, dark city)
you can see the rest of movies are not that great.
Superman Lives related. . . .For those interested:
I like it. It's actually very much what I had always had in my mind it would look like. Cage may not have had the facial looks that make up Supes, but these pictures do make him look what an interesting Superman he might have played. They should have released these to the public back then, sorta like what the Tim Burton Batman teaser did to people, which was to pipe down the fuss. Maybe.
To be honest Strick's or Gilroy's drafts were not that bad and I would like to see Cage, Courtney, 90s Kevin Spacey and Chris Rock. Also I love Brainiac with spider-like body and that K-suit.
That's actually pretty F'N cool
no it's not... that sucks ass
In your opinion
Look I know this film would've sucked but it doesn't mean we can't appreciate artwork for it
I don't agree that this film would have sucked. I would prefer Burton's Superman Lives over Singer's Superman Returns and what we've seen of Snyder's Man of Steel. Tim Burton's Superman Lives looks like it would have been a fun, creative sci-fi Superman movie. Burton's Superman Lives still looks like a breath of fresh air to me, especially after viewing Singer's Superman Returns attempt at rehashing Richard Donner's Superman and Luthor, etc. and what we've seen of Synder's attempt at retelling the origin story, again, and Superman versus Zod, again.
So basically just alienate the character completely yeah sounds fun. Basically this film wasn't Superman. I love how you say Superman vs Zod again like its been done a bunch of times on screen. End of the day Zod is obviously the right choice for the story in MOS.
Ill agree Superman Returns wasn't the best but this would have destroyed the franchise.
But each to their own, I'm just glad that we're getting Man of Steel. I've no doubt it'l be the greatest superhero film ever.
Cool artwork, I am so gad this film never got made but I'd love to see it done in a graphic novel.
yeah, im glad this movie never got made either... this movie would of given me nightmares
You seem to have a very narrow minded view of Superman. Superman Lives was actually inspired by Superman comic books, loosely based on Dan Jurgan's Death of Superman, Funeral for a Friend and Superman's return in Reign of the Supermen. And Superman did wear a black and silver suit in the comics temporarily after he returned in Dan Jurgan's Reign of the Supermen.
Superman would have only worn the black and silver Kryptonian Eradicator created suit in Tim Burton's Superman Lives temporarily after he is resurrected and is virtually powerless to expedite his recovery. Supporting his strained back muscles, repair the fracture in his shoulder, protect his vertebrae, etc.
The Kryptonian Eradicator was created by Roger Stern in Action Comics Annual #2 (1989) "Memories of Krypton's Past." Also, Superman Lives incorporated the android Brainiac created by Otto Binder and Al Plastino in Action Comics #242 (1958) "The Super-Duel in Space" and Brainiac's Skull Ship created by Marv Wolfman and Gil Kane in Action Comics #544 (1983) "Rebirth", Brainiac's Menagerie (which originates in Kevin Smith's Superman Lives script) seems to be based on the Preserver's zoo of various alien species in a two-part episode of Superman: The Animated Series called "The Main Man" (1996) by Paul Dini.
No, you don't.
I said Superman versus Zod, again, because famously Superman fought Zod in Superman II with both the Richard Lester cut and the Richard Donner cut.
Superman versus Zod, again, in Man of Steel doesn't excite me or interest me, nether did Superman versus Lex Luthor, again, in Superman Returns. I'd like to see a live-action Superman movie were he fights villains in his rogues gallery other than Lex Luthor and the Phantom Zone villains, again.
Tim Burton's Superman Lives featuring Superman versus Brainiac and Doomsday and creatures from Brainiac's Menagerie, a zoological collection of various species on Brainiac's Skull Ship in space collected by Brainiac during Brainiac's journeys throughout the cosmos, has never been done before in a live-action Superman movie. That interests me and excites me every time I see more and more things from Superman Lives. I have longed to see a Superman movie were he battles the strange and powerful creatures in his rogues gallery like he has in the comic books for decades.
I believe Tim Burton's Superman Lives would have given new life to the Superman franchise and opened peoples eyes to the potential and possibilities of Superman films, with Tim Burton not playing it safe, not rehashing Donner. Tim Burton was boldly going far away from what the Richard Donner and Richard Lester Superman films had already done.
But that radical change eventually scared Warner co-chairman Bob Daly, who pulled the plug on Burton's expensive Superman Lives after Schumacher's Batman & Robin flopped, earning only $107 million domestically (less than half what Tim Burton's first Batman movie earned), Daly opted to green light Barry Sonnenfeld's Wild, Wild West, starring Will Smith, produced by Jon Peters, instead. Tim Burton explained, "It wasn't filmed because it was going to be an expensive movie, and they were a little sensitive because they were getting a lot of bad press that they had just screwed up the Batman franchise. Because of the corporate environment, all of the decisions are basically fear-based. So I think one of the aspects that lead to their decision was that somehow they were going to **** up another franchise."
"If they'd just allowed us to make the film," adds Burton, "I think that we could have done something interesting. And, you know, it was going to be an expensive movie. They made a choice. They had this, and WILD, WILD WEST, and they opted for that and canned this one. It's frustrating."
I don't have a narrow minded view of Superman at all, just because I don't like it when people alienate the character so much that they feel they have to make ridiculous changes just to sell toys and appease Jon Peters. I've read several versions of the Superman Lives script so I know quite a lot of stuff they did was more like Batman than Superman. Just because he wore a black suit in the comics doesn't mean it's faithful putting it on him here, I know the reasons he has the eradicatior suit, I've read the Death of Superman story multiple times. you don't have to try n teach me Superman I've pretty much read everything there is. I actually don't think the Dan Gilroy script was that bad but everything I've seen of this film just isn't Superman. Not to mention Nicholas Cage was totally wrong for the part.
You seem to like versions of Superman when he's out of character. I like else worlds as much as the next guy but just because they are that else worlds.
Also I still don't see how Zod's been over done just cause we get a second cut of Superman II.
If you don't want to watch Man of Steel unlucky for you but I want a proper Superman film not some bastardised version. Superman needed to start again not some sequel or whatever the hell you call this. Zod is obviously the right person to use in the new origin and I can tell you he looks a world away from the Terence Stamp version. Superman needs a MOS more than a Superman Lives which along with the other advert for toys Batman & Robin may have destroyed comic book movies before they even hit their stride. But you wanted to see this and I didn't so let's leave it at that, I thank god everyday that this abomination never came to light.
"More Batman than Superman"? A cosmic sci-fi epic with aliens, etc. is nothing like Tim Burton's Batman movies. Dan Jurgan's Death of Superman, Funeral for a Friend and Superman's return in Reign of the Supermen, which Superman Lives was loosely based on, are Superman stories, not even Elseworlds stories and didn't alienate the character. Superman isn't acting out of character in those stories. Superman wearing a black and silver suit upon his return is faithful to the source material, not there just to sell toys and appease Jon Peters. Tim Burton hates any toy companies interference in his filmmaking and producer interference. Producer Jon Peters told Kevin Smith that he wanted Superman not flying at all, not wearing the classic suit at all, fight polar bears, a giant spider, add a gay robot, which was not the same things director Tim Burton was going to do, with the exception of the giant spider. Burton always has his own ideas. Burton had that Kevin Smith script with Peters' ideas rewritten, retaining the giant spider Peters wanted, which was an idea that Burton liked.
Oh well. At least I have Superman and the Mole Men, Fleischer Superman, Adventures of Superman, Filmation New Adventures of Superman and Ruby-Spears Superman. Classic Superman sci-fi that I still enjoy watching.
Have you seen the artwork? It looks so Batman this has even been admitted by people involved with the film. They wanted to take away his powers etc. I give up with you cause you aways gave an answer for everything. The only things this had in common with the death and return if Superman were the black suit, he dies bad does back, the eradicator and it had a character who was meant to be Doomsday in it.
Yeah you enjoy that.
Obviously I've seen the artwork, I recently commented "Awesome! Thanks! " on one of the pre-production art pieces posted above that I hadn't seen before, and I posted some pre-production art myself. No, it doesn't look like Batman. I've done a lot of research on Superman Lives, read many interviews with the filmmakers, and have never read any of them say it looks like Batman.
Superman being in a weakened and depowered state upon his resurrection is actually faithful to the Death of Superman, Funeral for a Friend and Reign of the Supermen comic book story arc that Superman Lives was based on.
How can you not see the comparisons?
Batman 89 suit:
Nic Cage suit:
Look at the shape of the car and this Kryptonian explorer, basically the same shape not to me toon the explorer in black would look just like a bat car
What's that he's attached to, looks very much like the Batman logo:
The Fortress looks a lot like the Batcave:
Also I'm not the only one who noticed this, look back in the thread:
Some stuffs even lifted from other films:
Looks very similar to Alien:
Nothing is completely original anymore. You can look at many films and find similarities to other films. All films have influences, inspirations, homages.
There have always been some similarities between Superman's costume and Batman's costume, classically they both wore cloth tights with trunks on the outside, yellow belts, boots, capes and an emblem on the chest, but they were different enough from each other to not be carbon copies of each other.
Tim Burton's Superman Lives suits are distinctively different looking from Burton's Batman, and conceptually the Superman Lives suits are Kryptonian. Superman Lives concept designer Ben Torres confirmed this.
There are many changes to the permanent Superman suit in Snyder's Man of Steel, removing many iconic elements of Superman's costume. Instead of cloth tights it is a sculpted suit conceptually from Krypton with sculpted musculature and a basketball texture (also used in Amazing Spider-Man) and Wonder Woman-esque silver bracelets and Power Rangers-eque stripes in the waist area and legs. Even the iconic "S" emblem is altered. The iconic "S" on the back of the cape is gone. The yellow belt is gone. Replaced with just a silver belt buckle without the belt. The red trunks are gone, an iconic part of his suit since 1938, a uniform that started the superhero genre. If you can accept such a non-traditional suit as the permanent suit in Snyder's Man of Steel, you should be able to accept Burton's Superman Lives.
The Kryptonian Explorer is distinctively different than Burton's Batmobile.
Ben Torres explained, "The underlying idea was to emphasize the science fiction aspect of Superman. People forget that Superman is a science fiction character, he is from Krypton, he interfaces with technology, etc. so to explore these options seems to be natural. Since Superman had lost his powers in this particular version we wanted to explore the various aspects of Kryptonian technology."
However, there is no Kryptonian Explorer in the Superman Lives script by Wesley Strick that Tim Burton had original intended to film, only in the Dan Gilroy script did the Kryptonian Explorer K-Craft appear, formed by K (the Kryptonian Eradicator) while Superman has temporarily lost his powers and needs to go into space to Brainiac's Skull Ship. In the Wesley Strick script while Superman has temporarily lost his powers, K forms himself into a suit on Superman, and then, sprouting under and around him, are aerodynamic projections -- a sleek tailpiece, Stealth-like wings so Superman can fly until he regains his powers, and he flys in space that way in the Strick script. The picture that you asked what Superman is attached to is concept art of Superman flying with the K suit. This is also concept art of Superman flying with the K suit...
There has been similarities between Superman's Fortress of Solitude ice cave and Batman's Batcave since the creation of the Fortress of Solitude, but fortunately Burton's Fortress of Solitude and the Batcave are distinctively different from each other (and also different from Donner's Fortress of Solitude).
Ridley Scott's Alien with HG Giger's art designs has been hugely influential on sci-fi, as has Ridley Scott's Blade Runner. Even Superman/Aliens and Superman/Aliens 2: God War comic book mini-series were published by DC and Dark Horse. The production art piece of Superman in the process of regeneration with the recovery suit resembles the Borg from Star Trek: The Next Generation more than Edward Scissorhands. Many films have various influences, inspirations, homages.
Mate say what you want it's all there, of course things influence each other but most if the things in this were so much like Burtons Batman. You can see it and as I said I'm not the only one whose said these things, just agree to disagree cause we don't see eye to eye.