The Last Jedi Supreme Leader Snoke

[007]

Can't quite understand why Vader is praised by Snoke, Kylo, etc in these new movies. He basically betray the Sith and is responsible for killing the Emperor; delivering the blow that caused the empire to crumble. It's the equivalent of people admiring Judas..

Does anyone know he actually did that? Only 3 of them were in the room and the death star blew up.

 

[Aximili86]

It was implied somewhere, can't remember where, that the First Order basically teaches their grunts that Luke just went in there and killed both of them. The Vader turning stuff doesn't seem to be public knowledge, though maybe Leia tried to explain it when the Senate & stuff freaked out upon finding out Vader was her dad sometime later on.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Yeah, I'd assume that the Rebels spread that Vader turned while the Empire maintained that it was a lie and Luke killed him.

 

[I Am The Knight]

 

[RocketsNutz]

Well, sure, I would have liked more info on its origins (though primarily through a brief explanation of Snoke’s entrance into all this), but my bigger issue with the First Order (and the Resistance) is its lack of characterization.

The Empire was very well characterized both through characters and through smart exposition via dialogue. First, characters like Tarkin and his council in ANH, the various Admirals, general and lieutenants, and then Vader and Palpatine, helped to characterize the Empire as a martial regime concerned with maintaining order through force and fear. At the same time, through dialogue ANH defined the Empire as a increasingly totalitarian government at least partially restrained by a nominal Senate, with a growing number of revolting systems. We got a sense for how the Empire ruled through this dialogue and through the larger motivations for the Death Star.

We haven’t gotten anything of the sort with the First Order, except for Hux’s speech about the Republic’s abstract acquiescence to disorder. We have not gotten a sense of what the First Order fundamentally is, and therefore the actual threat it poses. We’ve also only focused on three characters, who are so personality driven that they only really represent themselves, and not the organization to which they belong. This has made the First Order quite hollow to me, which is made more so by the fact that the First Order essentially looks like the Empire. It’s as if the First Order is the reanimated corpse of the Empire, without its soul. I feel the same way about the Resistance.

This is one of the reasons why I’m much more partial to Rogue One, despite its poorer character portrayals: that film seems to capture the heart of the Rebel Alliance and the Empire, while adding nuance to both.

Anyway, I think the First Order could have actually been portrayed as a darker, more sinister version of the Empire - the cruelty and horror and violence without the order and governance and stability. That the First Order steals and turns children into indoctrinated, nameless stormtroopers could have been portrayed in a way that made the First Order stand out from the Empire (more 1984 than the latter’s German/British Empire). And with Kylo Ren’s genuinely terrifying ability to freeze people in place and probe minds, you could very much have had a much more fearsome threat. Snoke, of course, would then have been the head of that, rather than what we got.

Agreed completely and have been thinking about this. They could have done it in a few simple lines in EP 7 by positioning it so that Rey doesn't know who/what they are, and needs Finn to explain it to her... hell could have waited to do it until they hooked up with Han and he could have added some nuance to what Finn says (which would be company line since he's a stormtrooper). All that would have had much more weight than Finn constantly whining about getting away from the FO and that no one can stop them, etc etc.

 

[Lord]

Checked the wikia recently to see if there was anything new about Snoke and aparently a lot of information has been revealed in the visual dictionaries and art books.

Can't quite understand why Vader is praised by Snoke, Kylo, etc in these new movies. He basically betray the Sith and is responsible for killing the Emperor; delivering the blow that caused the empire to crumble. It's the equivalent of people admiring Judas..

It's probably because of his power. But i do think they should have shown more praise for the likes of the Emperor. I know Vader's more popular and iconic, but it would have made more sense in-universe. Aparently, he was the leader of the "Attendants", a group of alien navigators from the unknown regions who searched for Force artifacts. They apparently are in Snoke's ship during The Last Jedi. But in short, Snoke pretty much was a fanboy who collected Sith stuff and probably was keeping a watch on the whole Galactic Civil War.

This means the Attendants probably are a new force faction. Something fans have been asking for a while.

 

[Prettyricky]

Honestly at somepoint wether its snoke or palpatine dont these emperial workers get tired of being evil and loosing to rebels? Do they ever question what were doing? Just seems like at somepoint they would stop joining the empire or first order.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Honestly at somepoint wether its snoke or palpatine dont these emperial workers get tired of being evil and loosing to rebels? Do they ever question what were doing? Just seems like at somepoint they would stop joining the empire or first order.

Technically it's been a pretty even back and forth. The Empire was in power for what? 20 to 25 years from the end of the prequels to their fall in ROTJ? The First Order had just reclaimed power after about 30 years...so it's a pretty even power balance back and forth.

 

[DerekLake]

Agreed completely and have been thinking about this. They could have done it in a few simple lines in EP 7 by positioning it so that Rey doesn't know who/what they are, and needs Finn to explain it to her... hell could have waited to do it until they hooked up with Han and he could have added some nuance to what Finn says (which would be company line since he's a stormtrooper). All that would have had much more weight than Finn constantly whining about getting away from the FO and that no one can stop them, etc etc.

Well, I’m a big proponent of showing and telling, particularly through dialogue and plot rather than exposition scenes. For example, in TFA, Phasma and Hux could have said a little more about Finn needing [painful] corrective reconditioning; such a thing could have been made a big factor in Finn’s decision to run away (expressed in Finn’s words to Rey and Han), and therefore could have been a way to better illustrate what the First Order threat actually was. And, if TLJ’s Canto Bight had been under the control of the First Order, we could have seen the First Order ripping children from their families and using 1984-like methods to keep the population in line. Such things would have helped to characterize the First Order as an oppressive regime and to show something the OT never showed us about the Empire.

 

[I'm Old Greg]

Anyone want to buy my Snoke Statue?

 

[GarysMyOldman]

Has anyone thought that Snoke is just a projection made by Kylo himself? He's a shadow leader that is basically just Kylo Ren using a puppet to control the First Order? The entire time Kylo is using this Supreme Leader figure to keep himself from being the central figure of the FO, if they come to kill the Supreme Leader they're killing no one and the real leader lives on.

Maybe he was bad from the very beginning and came up with this plan? Sounds crazy considering how many scenes they have together alone but those can be used to fool the audience. Killing the Supreme Leader in TLJ is meaningless bc he never existed in the first place.

Crazy theory but could be true seeing how quickly and flippantly they killed him off.

 

[Agent Orange]

Andy Serkis defends the "twist" and isn't ruling out the idea of Snoke returning.

http://www.indiewire.com/2018/01/andy-serkis-star-wars-last-jedi-snoke-death-reaction-1201923808/

If he does I doubt that it will be via the Force. Kylo Ren will probably be psychologically haunted by him as he spirals further into madness.

JJ Abrams isn't exactly proficient at solving his own "Mystery Box" set-ups but I'll bet that he feels compelled to address Kylo Ren and Snoke's partnership in some capacity. (That doesn't necessarily mean that Snoke is important.)