Swastikas (Random thoughts)

[amazingfantasy15]

Don't forget the disabled.

Only if you don't go full ******.

 

[moraldeficiency]

And that's a good excuse to be ignorant? Because everyone else is ignorant?

Again, ignorance should not be carte blanche to do whatever it is that you please simply because some people deem it as offensive or unacceptable. This would be like not hiring black people because many of your customers are racist. From a business standpoint it's a good idea, but in reality it's just another form of corportate racism.

So if I held my middle finger up to you, since it first meant something very different from **** you, you have no right to be offended?

Symbols and words change with modern times, some get hijacked. It takes a while to take them back if at all.

Seeing as how that symbol is offensive to the vast majority of all races and religions maybe best not to just assume people will educate themselves before punching you in the face cause they assume (and almost always correctly so) that by wearing that you're a hate *****e bag.

Education is good, but to assume the vast majority of the public has researched hindu and buddist symbolism is just stupid. You know and I know and that's great, but I still wouldn't start hanging up swastika posters around town.

Finally, you're using something someone is born with (being black) to compare with a personal belief and choice. It's nowhere near the same. Now if that black guy you hired had a tat that said "don't trust Whitey" (very good advice, btw) and that was displayed to your predominately white customers all day long, I can't blame you for canning his ass. Even if by Whitey he meant Whitey Bulger the former irish mafia boss, and just assumed everyone would be educated to Irish American Nationals, because ignorance is no excuse (you did know who whitey bulger is right and didn't assume when you first read what I wrote that I was referring to white people? Cause if you did that's just ignorant and as you said there is no excuse for it)

 

[Shemtov]

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
note in the medival section that there was a Kabbalistic Jewish version.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

you can define the swastika's orgin all you want... but the nazi swastika is a stain that may never be removed unfortunately.

 

[Addendum]

But it is ignorant to automatically assume the person with a swastika is a racist or nazi.

 

[Prison Mike]

Only if you don't go full ******.

didn't Sean Penn go full ****** and came up empty handed at the Oscars? lol

 

[SuBe]

But if it is different but looks similar, then what?

 

[Majic Walrus]

i don't think the point got across, but maybe i was unclear. (i'm not being an ass by saying that by the way)

the origin of the flag or is irrelevant. as you mentioned toward the swastika, it has the connotation because people have put it on...just like the confederate flag. the intention of the flag is also irrelevant. i don't think hitler (goebbels for that matter) picked a swastika because they wanted it to be viewed as a symbol of hate and evil but rather that of order and power...just as i'm sure the confederacy didn't design the flag for the purpose of being viewed as a symbol of ignnorance and a black eye in our history...but it is.

I see what you mean, however even if there is an unnecessary negative connotation to the symbol that shouldn't be the metric that judges it's true meaning.

Even if the connotation of the symbol is negative it doesn't change the fact that the symbol it self may not be negative. We cannot allow people ignorance govern rules and regulations. There will always be a negative stigma associated with the swastika and with the Confederate flag but if we allow those things to govern our business it won't be too far off before anything that anyone considers offensive isn't allowed to be seen in a place of business. Then we stop hiring Mexicans to work in resturants because some people think that they're dirty. No Italians at the DMV because they have short tempers.

Connotations are not something we should base anything on.

 

[Addendum]

Then you see what else they're wearing in case it has a message...

Or you see what bumper stickers or decals are on their car.

You know, the hard work of finding some context

 

[moraldeficiency]

But it is ignorant to automatically assume the person with a swastika is a racist or nazi.

Any assumption without absolute knowledge (something impossible) is ignorant. Every time you deal with someone you assume things based on their actions, appearance and history and you react ignorantly (cause you don't know everything about them) in the way you treat them. You make assumptions based on what you believe is most probable just like everyone else. You see someone with a swastika in this country you assume with good probability that that person is a racist *****ebag and probably treat them accordingly.

 

[Shemtov]

Then you see what else they're wearing in case it has a message...

Or you see what bumper stickers or decals are on their car.

You know, the hard work of finding some context

I saw a car with a swatika bumper sticker on it. However, it ha it in the no symbol. But i think its a cover-up since there was a gothic-lettering bumper sticker also.

 

[Addendum]

Before I make that determination, I resort to what I mentioned earlier, as in check to see what is accompanying the swastika. And I never thought I'd see someone defend ignorance, which is simply another method of laziness

 

[Majic Walrus]

So if I held my middle finger up to you, since it first meant something very different from **** you, you have no right to be offended?

People can be offended if they want to however if there is a current accepted usage for the middle-finger you shouldn't be fired for using it in that manner.

Symbols and words change with modern times, some get hijacked. It takes a while to take them back if at all.

Seeing as how that symbol is offensive to the vast majority of all races and religions maybe best not to just assume people will educate themselves before punching you in the face cause they assume (and almost always correctly so) that by wearing that you're a hate *****e bag.

But the swastika is STILL used as part of religious ceremonies and rites. It's not an ancient usage, it's a current usage.

Education is good, but to assume the vast majority of the public has researched hindu and buddist symbolism is just stupid. You know and I know and that's great, but I still wouldn't start hanging up swastika posters around town.

I wouldn't either, but that doesn't mean that I should be punished or penalyzed if I decided to. People can think whatever they want but they shouldn't be allowed to act on their thoughts in this regard.

Finally, you're using something someone is born with (being black) to compare with a personal belief and choice. It's nowhere near the same. Now if that black guy you hired had a tat that said "don't trust Whitey" (very good advice, btw) and that was displayed to your predominately white customers all day long, I can't blame you for canning his ass. Even if by Whitey he meant Whitey Bulger the former irish mafia boss, and just assumed everyone would be educated to Irish American Nationals, because ignorance is no excuse (you did know who whitey bulger is right and didn't assume when you first read what I wrote that I was referring to white people? Cause if you did that's just ignorant and as you said there is no excuse for it)

Totally different. You're comparing an obscure meaning and connotation of something like the word "Whitey" to the well known and commonly used meaning of the swastika. Also the semantics behind words are different than the meanings behind symbols.

Please remember that we're talking about a symbol that while viewed as being racist isn't and the the more common practiced used of the symbol is for a religious reason. We aren't talking about secret meanings or plays on words.

 

[EXT.23]

I see what you mean, however even if there is an unnecessary negative connotation to the symbol that shouldn't be the metric that judges it's true meaning.

Even if the connotation of the symbol is negative it doesn't change the fact that the symbol it self may not be negative. We cannot allow people ignorance govern rules and regulations. There will always be a negative stigma associated with the swastika and with the Confederate flag but if we allow those things to govern our business it won't be too far off before anything that anyone considers offensive isn't allowed to be seen in a place of business. Then we stop hiring Mexicans to work in resturants because some people think that they're dirty. No Italians at the DMV because they have short tempers.

Connotations are not something we should base anything on.

yeah i see what you mean there, and agree..and i'm not going to say in ALL cases but in some there have been people with marks or tattoos indicating their nazi sympathies but have since been reformed. and while i won't say it's okay to be ignorant of the symbol's other meanings...people who say, get tattoos of swastikas regardless of not having nazi sympathies, can't be ignorant to the fact that people are gonna look at them in a different way..that's all i'm saying.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Before I make that determination, I resort to what I mentioned earlier, as in check to see what is accompanying the swastika. And I never thought I'd see someone defend ignorance, which is simply another method of laziness

Everything you, I and everyone else does is ignorant. You thinking I'm defending that, when I'm not and you not knowing me is extremely ignorant. I wasn't defending it, simply stating with 100% certiantity that ignorance and assumptions are the way we all view the world (cause no one knows everything).

I assume you're questing for supreme knowledge since that's the only actual way to cure ignorance and you're clearly not the lazy type right?

You make about a hundred ignorant assumptions every day, just like me, just like everyone else on the planet. You either can accept and deal with that fact by trying to reevaluate your views or you can just avoid that truth and be ignorant.

 

[Addendum]

And in this case, before I say "That person is a racist simply because they have a tattoo of a swastika", I attempt to find out more about that person. To simply write them off as a racist is ignorant and lazy

 

[moraldeficiency]

People can be offended if they want to however if there is a current accepted usage for the middle-finger you shouldn't be fired for using it in that manner.

I don't know what you're saying with that.

But the swastika is STILL used as part of religious ceremonies and rites. It's not an ancient usage, it's a current usage.

Right and it's still used predominately in this country to advocate the Nazi ideals. If this was an article about something happening in india it would be different. Again I go back to my "don't trust Whitey" argument. If you assumed I meant white people when I first said that then you're no better than the people that assumed the swastika was hate speech.

What ceremonies use it? I don't know of any personally. It's used it texts, and for some blessings, but that's all I can think of.

I wouldn't either, but that doesn't mean that I should be punished or penalyzed if I decided to. People can think whatever they want but they shouldn't be allowed to act on their thoughts in this regard.

yes, and in a perfect world communism would work, but here we are. Some things aren't necessarily completely fair so you go with the lesser of evils.

Totally different. You're comparing an obscure meaning and connotation of something like the word "Whitey" to the well known and commonly used meaning of the swastika. Also the semantics behind words are different than the meanings behind symbols.

Incorrect sir, it might be obscure to you, but in my Irish family you know who that is. I guess that would equate to someone here having no knowledge of eastern religious symbolism huh? The most well known meaning of the swastika here in the US is pro nazi. Words and symbols are different I agree, but common perceptions regarding popular meanings are just what they are. In a hundred years the swastika might be cool but for now best to keep it on the back burner.

Please remember that we're talking about a symbol that while viewed as being racist isn't and the the more common practiced used of the symbol is for a religious reason. We aren't talking about secret meanings or plays on words.

We're not talking about the most important symbol to buddists and hindus here. The swastika isn't their cross or star of david, it's fairly obscure for them as well (point of clarification, I'm a Taoist so I'm not speaking blindly on the subject). So don't state it as something big for buddists and hindus, I know several who don't know **** about it and thought it was just a nazi symbol.

Regardless of what the symbol meant, in this country right now, it means something else to almost everyone and that thing is hateful and evil and quite frankly stands for a group that wanted to destroy this country. I'm just saying, I can see why people don't really want it around their place of work.


People here seem to assume everyone is this enlightened objective thinker, and I'm just wondering what ****ing country do you live in, cause it sure as hell ain't the US?

 

[Erzengel]

I'm an enlightened objective thinker.

 

[moraldeficiency]

And in this case, before I say "That person is a racist simply because they have a tattoo of a swastika", I attempt to find out more about that person. To simply write them off as a racist is ignorant and lazy

Ok so you go up to them and ask and they say, "Oh no, I just use this for good luck" and you assume they're telling the truth and walk away not hearing them mutter "****ing n***** lover" behind your back. Unless you intend on really studing that person (and I'm sure you would, not being lazy and all) then you're still pretty ignorant and you've added on a neat level of self righteousness (cause you're not lazy like all those other ignorant people) to really make sure that ignorance doesn't fade.

If you see a KKK rally do you assume the people there are just proud of their race or do you assume their racist *****ebags? Cause maybe some of them are just proud of their race. Maybe you should go and question each of them in detail before you decide though.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I'm an enlightened objective thinker.

Then I promise to kill you last.

 

[Addendum]

Ok so you go up to them and ask and they say, "Oh no, I just use this for good luck" and you assume they're telling the truth and walk away not hearing them mutter "****ing n***** lover" behind your back. Unless you intend on really studing that person (and I'm sure you would, not being lazy and all) then you're still pretty ignorant and you've added on a neat level of self righteousness (cause you're not lazy like all those other ignorant people) to really make sure that ignorance doesn't fade.

If you see a KKK rally do you assume the people there are just proud of their race or do you assume their racist *****ebags? Cause maybe some of them are just proud of their race. Maybe you should go and question each of them in detail before you decide though.

I never said I question them. I said if they're wearing clothing with a message, I take that into consideration. I look to see if their car has bumper stickers and what the bumper stickers say. If the shirt has a racist message and/or the bumper stickers, then the person is a racist.

I have yet to see a KKK rally in Memphis. They're usually in Butt**** Mississippi.

As for race, I consider that to be something from sociology.

 

[EXT.23]

@moraldeficiency:
what perfect world is it that communism would work in? hahaha

 

[amazingfantasy15]

If you get a tatoo of a swastika, even if it's not really a swastika, but a symbol in your religion. Expect to have some troubles in your life. When you have to explain a tatoo so people don't want to kick your ass, maybe you should have gotten a different tatoo. So many people are talking about other people's ignorance, maybe the tatoo guy shouldn't have been so ignorant to get the symbol of a man who was committing genocide just 65-70 years ago tatooed onto his skin.

 

[Addendum]

I don't think a person getting a tattoo of a symbol that's used in their religion is ignorant.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I never said I question them. I said if they're wearing clothing with a message, I take that into consideration. I look to see if their car has bumper stickers and what the bumper stickers say. If the shirt has a racist message and/or the bumper stickers, then the person is a racist.

I have yet to see a KKK rally in Memphis. They're usually in Butt**** Mississippi.

As for race, it's just a creation of sociologists.

You seem prejudiced against butt**** mississippi, that's ignorant. Race is just a biological evolutinary adaptation. There are very good and specific reasons for why people are of one race or another depending on region, and even why some diseases only affect or are more prevelant in some races (typically cause the disease has some hidden benefit ala sickle cell anemia mainly affecting black people).



EXT.23: fantasyland. Which I believe is located in disney land (avoid the pedofiles).