Action-Adventure Terminator: Dark Fate

[Aximili86]

Y
Again my opinion is if they can't continue on that two film narrative without the central character that they built it upon then they shouldn't bother at all.

Well, Sarah's the "central character" of the first two, John's even more of a plot device basically.

In that sense I'm actually okay with the idea of killing him, on paper at least, if that's a way they feel they want to go. Especially if that notion came from Cameron.

I think what people are getting at more is...T2 legitimately felt like they beat Skynet, broke the loop, won. So some new non-Skynet AI, killing John, this new girl is the for-really-real-savior, it's understandable a bunch of people out there are going to feel like it's p*ssing on the first two.

Sort of a wait-and-see for me. If the trailer didn't look like such ass I'd be more confident, but on paper I feel the idea can work at least. If there's a good reason for it and it doesn't feel like the filmmakers are literally doing it out of some genuine belief of "can't do John now, white dude, checklist says minority chick is acceptable - godspeed, full steam ahead".

Cameron & Miller just don't feel like those types of morons to me though, so gonna run with it and see personally.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Good ****ing god. What the hell does Connor being white have to do with anything?

You're setting it in Mexico, then saving an important Mexican chick makes total sense. But John was never a "white savior", he was just a savior who happened to be a white dude. Killing him here's actually a really ballsy & fun move if they're going to go that way, but as others have said, it's also pretty goddamn cheap especially if they're intending this as "the legit" continuation of the first two. Race doesn't come into it.

Oh, don’t act like you don’t know that in the majority of big budget movies since Hollywood’s inception, heroic savior characters tends to be white dudes. Like Skywalkwer is a white savior too. I’m not calling these movies racist, all I’m saying is that it’s a typical trope in film that many studios trying to avoid now by diversifying their casts. Regardless of that though, given how the first two films were built around this idea that John would be that savior, undoing that key plot element could kinda ruin this movie for some.

 

[samsnee]

Terminator-related:

Remember the scene in Last Action hero where Stallone was Terminator in T2 in that world? Well here's Stallone in T2 from that world. Not kidding.

He looks more like the new Terminator from the trailer. Nice effort though.

 

[Aximili86]

Oh, don’t act like you don’t know that in the majority of big budget movies since Hollywood’s inception, heroic savior characters tends to be white dudes. Like Skywalkwer is a white savior too. I’m not calling these movies racist, all I’m saying is that it’s a typical trope in film that many studios trying to avoid now by diversifying their casts. Regardless of that though, given how the first two films were built around this idea that John would be that savior, undoing that key plot element could kinda ruin this movie for some.

I'm pretty sure Cameron didn't give two ****s in the early 80s when writing the thing whether John & Sarah ended up being cast as white or black, dude. It's completely irrelevant.

There were black 80s action heroes, too, you're reaching.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I'm pretty sure Cameron didn't give two ****s in the early 80s when writing the thing whether John & Sarah ended up being cast as white or black, dude. It's completely irrelevant.

There were black 80s action heroes, too, you're reaching.

No, you’re doing what you usually do and denying a problem because it’s doesn’t fit your narrative. Yeah, there were black action heroes in the 80s, but are you honestly going to tell me that the majority of lead actors on film in the 80s weren’t white? Are you seriously arguing that people of color haven’t been underrepresented in American cinema?

You sound like the kinda guy who ranted on Reddit after Jordan Peele said he wouldn’t make a film with a white protagonist.

 

[Hurm...]

Sounds like unnecessary, unwarranted outrage

 

[Schlosser85]

Sounds like unnecessary, unwarranted outrage

So the internet.

 

[Aximili86]

but are you honestly going to tell me that the majority of lead actors on film in the 80s weren’t white? Are you seriously arguing that people of color haven’t been underrepresented in American cinema?

The majority of lead actors in films now are white. The majority population of the US is also white.

Underrepresentation is a thing, media can always do better on that. Thing is, it has zippo to do with Connor in-universe or out-of-universe, and in no way shape or form has the series ever asserted any remote subtext of a "white" savior, only a savior.

Sure, Sarah could be white, black, asian, whatever, it totally doesn't matter, and if she'd have been cast as black in 1983 nobody would have batted an eyelid, they'd be on board with it. Thing is, just plain mathematically there's a higher chance at a certain point within the U.S. they're going to be white, demographics-wise, and the fact they were cast that way isn't any sort of "white savior" point.

If this new chick is the new savior in the new context of the new artificial intelligence, cool, fine. It's just also okay if there's a mixed response to it in terms of people wanting to see John & Skynet rather than the events of T2 somehow creating some skewed future where the A.I. isn't Skynet and the savior's not John. I don't feel one way or another on that if it's executed well, but people with complaints on it will be legitimate. You'll just go the easy "you racist!" route though, chips on shoulders do that to reasoned thinking.

 

[Deck Rickard]

The majority of lead actors in films now are white. The majority population of the US is also white.

Underrepresentation is a thing, media can always do better on that. Thing is, it has zippo to do with Connor in-universe or out-of-universe, and in no way shape or form has the series ever asserted any remote subtext of a "white" savior, only a savior.

Sure, Sarah could be white, black, asian, whatever, it totally doesn't matter, and if she'd have been cast as black in 1983 nobody would have batted an eyelid, they'd be on board with it. Thing is, just plain mathematically there's a higher chance at a certain point within the U.S. they're going to be white, demographics-wise, and the fact they were cast that way isn't any sort of "white savior" point.

If this new chick is the new savior in the new context of the new artificial intelligence, cool, fine. It's just also okay if there's a mixed response to it in terms of people wanting to see John & Skynet rather than the events of T2 somehow creating some skewed future where the A.I. isn't Skynet and the savior's not John. I don't feel one way or another on that if it's executed well, but people with complaints on it will be legitimate. You'll just go the easy "you racist!" route though, chips on shoulders do that to reasoned thinking.

As usual, you’re missing the point. Yes, Sarah and John could have been any race, and the fact that they are humanity’s saviors in this series doesn’t have anything to do with them being white. But like so many movies (in the 1980s and yes, currently) they happened to be white. The main reason the white savior trope is problematic is because the people who have put that cliche in place don’t see why it’s problematic. It’s not that they made a conscientious decision to make the majority of savior characters white; they just did it by default because a lightbulb never even went off on their heads that said, “Hey, white people can’t solve every problem.” And as for the majority of the country being white... that’s going to change around 2050, I think? Still a ways off but eventually films with predominantly white casts aren’t going to be able to hide behind that argument anymore.

Lastly, I wasn’t really calling you racist; what I meant was that you’re coming off like one of those people who get offended when an underrepresented community calls white people out on their ****. People got angry at Peele because he said what we’ve all known for years; we’ve had a million movies where the white guy saves the day.

 

[titansupes]

... Guys, you're not even using "White Saviour" in the proper context-- the trope/cliche specifcally refers to movies like Green Book, The Blind Side, Dances with Wolves and whatever else as a true story/inspired by true events film that centers a noble white person saving people of colour.

White savior narrative in film - Wikipedia
White savior - Wikipedia
How to Avoid the 'White Savior Trope' in your Writing
Hollywood’s Love of White Saviors Is Modern-Day Colonialism at Its Worst
'White Savior: The Movie' Champions Hollywood's True Underdogs

It has literally nothing to do with other characters in friggin' Terminator or Star Wars being white.

Jeez.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Yeah I was going to point that out. Cameron's Jake Sully from Avatar is probably closer to what Deck Rickard is complaining about I guess?

 

[Karelia]

I just watched Genisys. Didn't love it, didn't hate it. T1 and T2 are amazing, T3 is below average aside from some scenes, I actually like Salvation a lot, and Genisys is just average for me.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I just watched Genisys. Didn't love it, didn't hate it.

That's how I feel (I actually prefer it to Salvation).

 

[Sithborg]

The story isn't horrible. But dear god, Emelia Clarke and Jai Courtney are so, so bad and miscast...

 

[Aximili86]

... Guys, you're not even using "White Saviour" in the proper context-- the trope/cliche specifcally refers to movies like Green Book, The Blind Side, Dances with Wolves and whatever else as a true story/inspired by true events film that centers a noble white person saving people of colour.

White savior narrative in film - Wikipedia
White savior - Wikipedia
How to Avoid the 'White Savior Trope' in your Writing
Hollywood’s Love of White Saviors Is Modern-Day Colonialism at Its Worst
'White Savior: The Movie' Champions Hollywood's True Underdogs

It has literally nothing to do with other characters in friggin' Terminator or Star Wars being white.

Jeez.

Bingo, was going to point that out earlier.

Green Book's a bad example though, the black guy "saves" the white guy in that as much as the other way around, it's a mutual give-and-take thing in different ways.

Either way, Connor ain't it.

 

[Karelia]

Yeah I was going to point that out. Cameron's Jake Sully from Avatar is probably closer to what Deck Rickard is complaining about I guess?

The story isn't horrible. But dear god, Emelia Clarke and Jai Courtney are so, so bad and miscast...

I can agree. I didn't like Kyle Reese either. None of the actors really reminded me of the actual characters from the previous films.

 

[Mysteryman]

They need to use some variations of those lines in the next movie. Introduce a character who is convinced he's always going to die and have him say "Come with me if you want to die" and "I won't be back."

" come with me if you want to live, if not I'll be back!'

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

The story isn't horrible. But dear god, Emelia Clarke and Jai Courtney are so, so bad and miscast...

Completely agree. As far as the actual story goes I think that Genisys had the potential to be a very cool and interesting movie. Somehow they ****ed it up completely.

 

[Vaibow]

Oh, don’t act like you don’t know that in the majority of big budget movies since Hollywood’s inception, heroic savior characters tends to be white dudes. Like Skywalkwer is a white savior too. I’m not calling these movies racist, all I’m saying is that it’s a typical trope in film that many studios trying to avoid now by diversifying their casts. Regardless of that though, given how the first two films were built around this idea that John would be that savior, undoing that key plot element could kinda ruin this movie for some.

It's not uncommon for a movie in a predominantly abc nation to be abc. Check out the asian market, bollywood as an example. Star Wars your example, but that was a diverse cast.Tall, short, male, female, different races...i think you're just jumping on a land wagon....

No, you’re doing what you usually do and denying a problem because it’s doesn’t fit your narrative. Yeah, there were black action heroes in the 80s, but are you honestly going to tell me that the majority of lead actors on film in the 80s weren’t white? Are you seriously arguing that people of color haven’t been underrepresented in American cinema?

You sound like the kinda guy who ranted on Reddit after Jordan Peele said he wouldn’t make a film with a white protagonist.

Well, it is a racist statement by Peele, deciding to not make someone a protagonist purely for their skin colour - imagine the reverse being said? People can't unite moving forward by keeping seperate.

 

[TheVileOne]

Meh, don't want to get into the middle of a racial debate. I still think Dark Fate looks like trash.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I know after Genisys they pulled the planned sequels and said they were basically going back to the drawing board, but do you think they may still be using some ideas that were lined up for those sequels, and have just 're-badged' them, as it were?

 

[TheVileOne]

I know after Genisys they pulled the planned sequels and said they were basically going back to the drawing board, but do you think they may still be using some ideas that were lined up for those sequels, and have just 're-badged' them, as it were?

I mean James Cameron even basically borrowed the Gensisys idea of using Arnold again and having him look old because of the human tissue on the Terminator that still ages.

It was pretty alarming when he talked about that because it was almost like he was picking up specific ideas from Genisys.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I mean James Cameron even basically borrowed the Gensisys idea of using Arnold again and having him look old because of the human tissue on the Terminator that still ages.

It was pretty alarming when he talked about that because it was almost like he was picking up specific ideas from Genisys.

Right. I definitely don't get a 'course correction' feeling about this!

 

[samsnee]

It’s the only way you can bring him back and explain why he’s old.

I would have rather they just CGI him like they did with Sam Jackson in Captain Marvel.

 

[TheVileOne]

It’s the only way you can bring him back and explain why he’s old.

I would have rather they just CGI him like they did with Sam Jackson in Captain Marvel.

As you just pointed out, it's clearly not the ONLY way.