Terminator: Genisys - Part 7

[Snow Queen]

So....this movie basically did to the Terminator franchise what DOFP did to the Xmen franchise? Clean slate without rebooting.

Minus the quality.

 

[dude stannis]

Also it ignores anything after T1 from the get go.

 

[DarthDorranceBane]

Basically. Salvation was about Kyle and John meeting for the first time but TG has them meet for the first time in the very first scene in a very different context. Also John's grasp on the timeline and how it affects the future is completely different.

If you guys want to un-ignore Salvation though, you can say that that movie's timeline was the result of the T2-T3 judgment day (postponed Judgment Day), while the Genisys opening was the T1 judgment day (the original 1997 judgment day).

 

[Schlosser85]

Nick Stahl was miscast (why can't any movie get adult John right?) but acting-wise I thought Courtney was worse.

And yea, Kristanna Loken wasn't scary. Certainly not in comparison to Robert Patrick, or Arnold in the first film.

For my money, Patrick is the best evil Terminator in the whole franchise. He's terrifying.

 

[Kane52630]

I've been treating each movie as their own different timeline ever since Salvation. I guess maybe that's why I didn't hate this movie as much as you guys. I thought the story for TG was pretty interesting with all things considered, just wish they had better suited actors playing them.

 

[Kane52630]

I am glad that I am not the only one who ranks T3 last.

Yeah the only thing that was noteworthy about T3 was the ending and Sargent Candy.


[YT]kayFrIR-Qfw[/YT]

 

[Spiderine]

Nick Stahl wasn't just miscast but John Connor was written horribly in that film. But that whole film was a tragedy anyways. It should have never happened. Till this day, T2 was the most appropriate ending to the Terminator franchise.

 

[DarthDorranceBane]

I've been treating each movie as their own different timeline ever since Salvation. I guess maybe that's why I didn't hate this movie as much as you guys. I thought the story for TG was pretty interesting with all things considered, just wish they had better suited actors playing them.

The action wasn't terrible and if ever Emilia or Courtney was miscast, I didn't mind it. The timelines might be confusing to everybody but with a time travel story like this I was already expecting this to be that way (plus it isn't really that hard to follow). The only thing that I could see that might really bug me was that they wiped out the great T2, but like with the new Star Trek films, I'll treat it as it wasn't really wiped out and we're just seeing alternate timeline.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I meant the original T2 coda. I know you don't want to acknowledge it because it was cut (which is fair) but Sarah mentions that even thought the timeline has been altered, she still has knowledge of the dark future that never happened and John still grew up, had a family and even became a senator.

I know what you meant. My point was she never witnessed the war. These aren't memories. Her dreams, her fear of it. It came from Kyle. In the Dark Tower there is someone who dies in one "timeline"/reality, who is alive. But remembers dying. It is downright horrible. [BLACKOUT]That story is also a "loop"[/BLACKOUT].

It's most definitely a loop. Absolutely. I never said otherwise. The original film was beautifully structured around that premise. I'm speaking strictly about T2, where the whole film is built on the premise where the future can be changed and the loop could be broken.

I thought we were talking about the first two. Also, there is definitely stuff in T2 that establish the loop.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Minus the quality.

Or the eye candy. James McAvoy could turn me in a second.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I know what you meant. My point was she never witnessed the war. These aren't memories. Her dreams, her fear of it. It came from Kyle. In the Dark Tower there is someone who dies in one "timeline"/reality, who is alive. But remembers dying. It is downright horrible. [BLACKOUT]That story is also a "loop"[/BLACKOUT].

Yeah, and there's quite a few Terminator references in those books as well, especially in Drawing of the Three. It kind of now makes the ending of the series very interesting in hindsight.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

I know what you meant. My point was she never witnessed the war. These aren't memories. Her dreams, her fear of it. It came from Kyle. In the Dark Tower there is someone who dies in one "timeline"/reality, who is alive. But remembers dying. It is downright horrible. [BLACKOUT]That story is also a "loop"[/BLACKOUT].

Of course she never witnessed the war, but she still has knowledge of it (and John still exists), even though she prevented Judgment Day and that dark future will never come.

I thought we were talking about the first two. Also, there is definitely stuff in T2 that establish the loop.

Well the plan was always for Sarah to attempt to alter the future by blowing Cyberdyne up. Even as far back as the first but it was cut (and it became the premise of T2).

T2's whole existence is predicated on our heroes stopping Judgment Day. It's the whole point of the film's existence.

 

[Alien Anal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL4ckHJ4dZA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-OHEb6V2Lw
Bad ass

 

[AnneFan]

I can't muster any enthusiasm to see this movie, and probably won't.

 

[Man in the Suit]

‘Terminator: Genisys' Director Alan Taylor Knows His Movie Makes No Damn Sense

he revealed that he didn’t come to truly appreciate James Cameron’s landmark sci-fier The Terminator and Terminator 2: Judgment Day until he got the call to direct Genisys.

WHAT!

Dude's a self-confessed hack. Holy crap. He didn't care until he saw the paycheck. Wow...

 

[Serpico Jones]

I think Neil Marshall would be a good choice to direct the next one if they decide to move forward.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Of course she never witnessed the war, but she still has knowledge of it (and John still exists), even though she prevented Judgment Day and that dark future will never come.

I know what happens in the scene. But the scene is a bit irrelevant because it was cut, and the film ends on a question. All of these ideas go against the actual time travel ideas established in the two actual films.

Well the plan was always for Sarah to attempt to alter the future by blowing Cyberdyne up. Even as far back as the first but it was cut (and it became the premise of T2).

T2's whole existence is predicated on our heroes stopping Judgment Day. It's the whole point of the film's existence.

And yet, she can't stop it. Her attempts, while valiant, always fail. On the flip side, this is how she trains John to be the leader of the future. Cause and effect.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, and there's quite a few Terminator references in those books as well, especially in Drawing of the Three. It kind of now makes the ending of the series very interesting in hindsight.

I am not the biggest fan of the last 3 books, but the finale, while not completely unexpected, still blew my mind quite a bit. My favorite scene is the palaver. My young mind couldn't handle the possibilities.

 

[dude stannis]

I think Neil Marshall would be a good choice to direct the next one if they decide to move forward.

Absolutely. Give him 20% of the budget they had for this nonsense and he'll make a 200x better film.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

I know what happens in the scene. But the scene is a bit irrelevant because it was cut, and the film ends on a question. All of these ideas go against the actual time travel ideas established in the two actual films.

I sill consider it relevant.

The original T2 coda completely represents the main message and themes of T2:

It's why John explicitly has Kyle memorize a message to give to her, that the future in NOT set and it could be changed. I know some have just played that off as a motivational speech to keep fighting but not to me.

The whole point of the open road ending is that it symbolizes that for the first time an unknown future is ahead.

Sarah's closing word's in T2:

"The unknown future rolls toward us. I face it for the first time with a sense of hope, because if a machine, a terminator, can learn the value of human life, maybe we can, too."

Sarah (and Cameron) are basically telling the audience that the future has been changed and for the first time and unknown future is ahead of her.

And yet, she can't stop it. Her attempts, while valiant, always fail. On the flip side, this is how she trains John to be the leader of the future. Cause and effect.

"The future's not set. There's no fate but what we make for ourselves."

^ Words to live by.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I sill consider it relevant.

The original T2 coda completely represents the main message and themes of T2:

It's why John explicitly has Kyle memorize a message to give to her, that the future in NOT set and it could be changed. I know some have just played that off as a motivational speech to keep fighting but not to me.

The whole point of the open road ending is that it symbolizes that for the first time an unknown future is ahead.

Sarah's closing word's in T2:

"The unknown future rolls toward us. I face it for the first time with a sense of hope, because if a machine, a terminator, can learn the value of human life, maybe we can, too."

Sarah (and Cameron) are basically telling the audience that the future has been changed and for the first time and unknown future is ahead of her.

Funny thing about those words. When Kyle tells Sarah her message, he never says any of that in the original film.

It is irrelevant because it never made the final cut. Not even the reissue. If it was in there, it would make your point. But it isn't. In fact we are left with a question, that Sarah ask herself. One we know the answer to thanks to the first two films.

The "no fate" idea completely contradicts the films. It is a nice mantra, but if anything, Terminator and T2 establish that this is all fate. John sending the message back as a way to motivate his mom, because he knows it is what happened before, is actually far more plausible then anything else. Again, the one line does not change what is actually in the films or how it plays out.

And the open road is there for one reason. Sequels. Which is what we ended up getting. Too bad they suck.

"The future's not set. There's no fate but what we make for ourselves."

^ Words to live by.

Beautiful words, but only really apply to Genysis.

 

[The Eradicator]

If anything, I think T2 was a betrayal of the message of the first film, in every way. And I'm glad that Cameron cut out that ridiculous coda ending.

This is what Reese says in T1 when relaying John's message:

"Thank you Sarah for your courage through the Dark Years. I can't help you with what you must soon face except to say that the future is not set. You must be stronger than you imagine you can be; you must survive or I will never exist."

Granted, the "no fate but what we make" thing was in the original script and one of the deleted scenes, but it's not in the final cut of the film. Cameron brought it back and put a new spin on it for the sequel, but I don't think it really works if we go by T1.

That last line in bold is pretty significant. I interpet it as, "Hey Sarah, just because all of this stuff is going to happen doesn't mean that you should sit on your ass. You must fight to make it happen, you must fight so I can become the leader I'm meant to be".
Fate and free will come hand in hand; you can't just wait for fate to come to you all the time. Sometimes you must go to it.

Originally, I don't think the message was ever meant to be a call to change the future. Future War John Connor knows that. The way I interpret T2's ending is that by blowing up Cyberdyne, Sarah actually put in motion the events that led to Judgment Day rather than prevent it.

In the end, I think the first Terminator film is the best of the bunch and was fine on its own; it didn't need a sequel. Even though I like T2, this is one film saga that should never have become a franchise.

 

[jmc]

Thing with T2 I always felt was that it really didn't leave a natural opening for a third story, it always had a sense of finality about it, that the future was now different. T3's explanation was that Judgement Day was merely delayed, which to me doesn't work, if Judgement Day was inevitable then it had to happen the way it was originally intended to on August 29 1997. If that passes with no incident then the future is an entirely different path, especially with no useful Terminator parts for the military to take advantage of like there was after T1.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I would have loved to see a post-T2 movie where Sarah becomes the villain. A story where she *did* stop Judgement Day and because of it John becomes unimportant, driving her nuts. Her obsession with seeing him become the hero of mankind leads her to secretly try to cause JD to happen.

But not now. Now I hope they let the franchise rest.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

Funny thing about those words. When Kyle tells Sarah her message, he never says any of that in the original film.

But their in T2. Loud and clear.

It is irrelevant because it never made the final cut. Not even the reissue. If it was in there, it would make your point. But it isn't. In fact we are left with a question, that Sarah ask herself. One we know the answer to thanks to the first two films.

Sorry, I still consider it relevant. It show's me what Cameron's intentions were when he was crafting the film.

The "no fate" idea completely contradicts the films. It is a nice mantra, but if anything, Terminator and T2 establish that this is all fate. John sending the message back as a way to motivate his mom, because he knows it is what happened before, is actually far more plausible then anything else. Again, the one line does not change what is actually in the films or how it plays out.

That one line completely correlates with everything that's happening in T2. The entire premise of the film is their attempt to change the future. To think otherwise, completely undermines it's themes.

And the open road is there for one reason. Sequels. Which is what we ended up getting. Too bad they suck.

Nah. It's there to tell the audience that the future has been changed and for the first time Sarah will face that unknown future with hope. That's what the ending symbolizes. Hope.

It would be pretty depressing (and utterly pointless) to think after everything they went through, nothing had changed.

That's not very hopeful, is it.

Beautiful words, but only really apply to Genysis.

Beautiful words, indeed...

From Terminator 2, I believe. A film all about hope and changing your fate.