Terminator: Genisys

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Hmm, I dunno if that really makes it any better. It just did not bode well for the way we look at Skynet.

The human-hybrid storyline was based on the fact that Judgement Day was altered. In the original script for T4, the hybrids were created by Skynet because it calculated that humans would wipe each other out in about a few hundred years. As it was designed for, it acted fast to save humanity by calculating nukes and gathering survivors to turn them into hybrids without emotion.

An interesting concept that could have been further developed but Terminator fans would have balked.
 
The human-hybrid storyline was based on the fact that Judgement Day was altered. In the original script for T4, the hybrids were created by Skynet because it calculated that humans would wipe each other out in about a few hundred years. As it was designed for, it acted fast to save humanity by calculating nukes and gathering survivors to turn them into hybrids without emotion.

An interesting concept that could have been further developed but Terminator fans would have balked.

Ya, remember that. But I too would not have liked it too much.
 
I like the human-hybrid idea. It would've added something different to the mythos and it could've helped the Salvation movies stand more on their own. Now, who knows how the execution of the idea would've gone, but at least it was something different.
 
It was different, but that does not always mean it would work. True execution is everything, and sadly the execution of the past two films were not the best. It's clear they seem to be filming everything from the 1984/1995 timelines of T1 and T2 with this. So I will be interested with the time travel and alterations; and what alters now.
 
I agree. I really disliked the Skynet HQ look.

I also hated how indestructible the T-800 was at the end when he was doused with grenade launchers, molten lava, etc.

Cameron kept his futuristic cyborgs strong but feasibly vulnerable
 
Skynet's entire plan was pretty stupid if you really think about it. Also, sending ONE naked/unarmed T-800 to kill John Connor? Why not send like five fully-armed terminators in there, he'd be dead in like ten seconds? Or just evacuate and then blow up the damn place and kill EVERYONE, including Connor and Kyle Reese. Also, where was all the security? The resistance just landed there with little to no opposition, which goes against the "trap" that Skynet was supposed to set up. Oh that's right, because Skynet is so incompetent that they cannot spot the big, well-lit resistance bases, or the military equipment/vehicles/aircraft parked out in the open, or the campfires that people just start out in the open. McG turned Skynet into morons.
 
Skynet never learns from its mistakes and Genesis is further proof.
 
Skynet's entire plan was pretty stupid if you really think about it. Also, sending ONE naked/unarmed T-800 to kill John Connor? Why not send like five fully-armed terminators in there, he'd be dead in like ten seconds? Or just evacuate and then blow up the damn place and kill EVERYONE, including Connor and Kyle Reese. Also, where was all the security? The resistance just landed there with little to no opposition, which goes against the "trap" that Skynet was supposed to set up. Oh that's right, because Skynet is so incompetent that they cannot spot the big, well-lit resistance bases, or the military equipment/vehicles/aircraft parked out in the open, or the campfires that people just start out in the open. McG turned Skynet into morons.

Also you have to question... why was Skynet holding Kyle hostage? If Skynet knew that Kyle was John's dad (no clue how Skynet would know that), then Skynet is very very stupid for not killing Kyle immediately.

But as you said, even if Skynet wanted to do a "trap" for some reason, the base should have been swarming with Terminators once Skynet confirmed that John was present.
 
The first Terminator movie is the only one that handled time travel properly, because time travel was a closed loop. That's part of what made it clever.
 
If you start overanalyzing time travel in movies, then you're going to get a headache. Technically if Skynet had succeeded in killing either of the Connors, then John wouldn't have existed in the future, which means that they're whole reason for sending a Terminator back in time to kill them wouldn't have existed, so they never would have, so he wouldn't have died anyway, etc. You see how maddening this gets if you really start to thin about it.
 
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The first Terminator movie is the only one that handled time travel properly, because time travel was a closed loop. That's part of what made it clever.
Depending on your interpetation of time travel. The sequel and everything past it can still fit in a "valid" alternative take on time travel in that you never can quite alter the timeline but you can create a new one that branches into another direction. The proverbial fork in the road, only in this case it's a fork in time. One timeline goes left, the other right. Skynet wins one, loses in another. Or is set back in another. And each fork can have its own fork, meaning there is an infinite number of possible outcomes and each movie picks the fork in the timeline it takes.
 
Or with each change an Alternate Reality is created & different versions can cross over the realities
 
Or with each change an Alternate Reality is created & different versions can cross over the realities

Eh, that's going a bit too far and makes it overcomplicated :o
Just keep it simple like the first one. Otherwise it looses the magic and gets into generic sci fi territory.
 
Depending on your interpetation of time travel. The sequel and everything past it can still fit in a "valid" alternative take on time travel in that you never can quite alter the timeline but you can create a new one that branches into another direction. The proverbial fork in the road, only in this case it's a fork in time. One timeline goes left, the other right. Skynet wins one, loses in another. Or is set back in another. And each fork can have its own fork, meaning there is an infinite number of possible outcomes and each movie picks the fork in the timeline it takes.

I prefer the immutable timeline approach to time travel, it's more physically sensible than "many-worlds".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov_self-consistency_principle
The Novikov self-consistency principle, also known as the Novikov self-consistency conjecture, is a principle developed by Russian physicist Igor Dmitriyevich Novikov in the mid-1980s to solve the problem of paradoxes in time travel, which is theoretically permitted in certain solutions of general relativity (solutions containing what are known as closed timelike curves). The principle asserts that if an event exists that would give rise to a paradox, or to any "change" to the past whatsoever, then the probability of that event is zero. It would thus be impossible to create time paradoxes.

The grandfather paradox has been solved mathematically using billiard balls.

In response, another physicist named Joseph Polchinski sent them a letter in which he argued that one could avoid questions of free will by considering a potentially paradoxical situation involving a billiard ball sent through a wormhole which sends it back in time. In this scenario, the ball is fired into a wormhole at an angle such that, if it continues along that path, it will exit the wormhole in the past at just the right angle to collide with its earlier self, thereby knocking it off course and preventing it from entering the wormhole in the first place. Thorne deemed this problem "Polchinski's paradox".[4]

After considering the problem, two students at Caltech (where Thorne taught), Fernando Echeverria and Gunnar Klinkhammer, were able to find a solution beginning with the original billiard ball trajectory proposed by Polchinski which managed to avoid any inconsistencies. In this situation, the billiard ball emerges from the future at a different angle than the one used to generate the paradox, and delivers its younger self a glancing blow instead of knocking it completely away from the wormhole, a blow which changes its trajectory in just the right way so that it will travel back in time with the angle required to deliver its younger self this glancing blow. Echeverria and Klinkhammer actually found that there was more than one self-consistent solution, with slightly different angles for the glancing blow in each case. Later analysis by Thorne and Robert Forward showed that for certain initial trajectories of the billiard ball, there could actually be an infinite number of self-consistent solutions.[5]

Echeverria, Klinkhammer and Thorne published a paper discussing these results in 1991;[6] in addition, they reported that they had tried to see if they could find any initial conditions for the billiard ball for which there were no self-consistent extensions, but were unable to do so. Thus it is plausible that there exist self-consistent extensions for every possible initial trajectory, although this has not been proven.[7] This only applies to initial conditions which are outside of the chronology-violating region of spacetime,[8] which is bounded by a Cauchy horizon.[9] This could mean that the Novikov self-consistency principle does not actually place any constraints on systems outside of the region of spacetime where time travel is possible, only inside it.

Even if self-consistent extensions can be found for arbitrary initial conditions outside the Cauchy Horizon, the finding that there can be multiple distinct self-consistent extensions for the same initial condition—indeed, Echeverria et al. found an infinite number of consistent extensions for every initial trajectory they analyzed[7]—can be seen as problematic, since classically there seems to be no way to decide which extension the laws of physics will choose. To get around this difficulty, Thorne and Klinkhammer analyzed the billiard ball scenario using quantum mechanics,[10] performing a quantum-mechanical sum over histories (path integral) using only the consistent extensions, and found that this resulted in a well-defined probability for each consistent extension. The authors of Cauchy problem in spacetimes with closed timelike curves write:

The simplest way to impose the principle of self-consistency in quantum mechanics (in a classical space-time) is by a sum-over-histories formulation in which one includes all those, and only those, histories that are self-consistent. It turns out that,14 at least formally (modulo such issues as the convergence of the sum), for every choice of the billiard ball's initial, nonrelativistic wave function before the Cauchy horizon, such a sum over histories produces unique, self-consistent probabilities for the outcomes of all sets of subsequent measurements. ... We suspect, more generally, that for any quantum system in a classical wormhole spacetime with a stable Cauchy horizon, the sum over all self-consistent histories will give unique, self-consistent probabilities for the outcomes of all sets of measurements that one might choose to make.
 
You guys should actually read and re-read the billiard ball stuff until you understand it, it's mind-blowing.
 
I agree. I really disliked the Skynet HQ look.

I also hated how indestructible the T-800 was at the end when he was doused with grenade launchers, molten lava, etc.

Cameron kept his futuristic cyborgs strong but feasibly vulnerable

The T-800 at the end of TS was ridiculous in how indestructible it was, I hated that. The movie just didnt follow what the previous movies had set up very well at all.
 
too lazy to read through all the time travel stuff but is BTTFs time travel scenario plausible? By that I mean its all one time stream but it can be knocked off depending on certain factors?
 
I think in part because Marcus was the focus of the movie. It was really a film about him and Worthington did a decent job with it. I had no expectations going into it with him like I did with Bale. But the Bale Connor was cold and somewhat uninspiring. Also it didn't help that it wasn't really a movie about him. It was like his character was shoehorned in more because Bale was playing him, which is what I read what happened back in the day.

I do agree that Worthington is pretty dull. However I thought he was decent enough in Salvation.

Actually, that's exactly what happened. Once Bale was cast and every person on the planet had their mind blown by that announcement, the script was retooled. The unfortunate thing about Marcus Wright is that, despite how awesome the theatrical trailer was, it spoiled the hell out of Marcus being a Terminator.
 
too lazy to read through all the time travel stuff but is BTTFs time travel scenario plausible? By that I mean its all one time stream but it can be knocked off depending on certain factors?

The BTTF scenario works if you consider the ending of The Terminator one hell of a coincidence. I view it to be that way because I only consider the first two films as canon anyway and because I love T2's ending.

:o
 
The T-800 at the end of TS was ridiculous in how indestructible it was, I hated that. The movie just didnt follow what the previous movies had set up very well at all.

Not to mention the redesigns they gave him were minor but deteriorating the design. And I hated how they beefed the endo up

Terminator+Salvation+(4333).jpg

cameron_fx_01.jpg
 
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